Postgame: Threes are Free

[SupremeHustle]

Y'all trippin talkin' 'bout tradin' Giannis for Gobert.

[Turk Nowitzki]

I actually think that Giannis for Gobert would be a deal where both sides would say no if the other offered the trade.

[Newz]

Y'all trippin talkin' 'bout tradin' Giannis for Gobert.

I thought Giannis for Gobert + Exum would be interesting. I still think I'd keep Giannis in that scenario.

No way I'd trade him just straight up for Gobert though... even if Giannis isn't a good athlete.

[emunney]

Let me ask you a hypothetical question.
What if we traded Giannis for XYZ star/prospect and it turns out that Giannis became better in the long term that the star we got, how would feel then by looking back at the trade?

Does Giannis become Michael Jordan and our guy become Magic Johnson? Because I can live with that.

Pretty much. Totally depends on the quality of the guy we have. If we had traded Dirk and drafted Paul Pierce, we'd all just shrug our shoulders.

[Prince12]

Gobert is looking like being a dominant defender through pure length and size which no doubt we need. If Giannis had not shown any progression id be inclined to do a trade like that in which case Utah would have no interest anyway. I no Giannis gets hyped up like no other but he has potential to be a top ten player, I don't see Goberts ceiling that high.

[ReasonablySober]

Gobert's allowing 37% FG at the rim, tops in the league. The Utah defense goes from 101.0 with him on the court to 111.4 off the court.

That's prime Sanders stuff.

[Newz]

Gobert's allowing 37% FG at the rim, tops in the league. The Utah defense goes from 101.0 with him on the court to 111.4 off the court.

That's prime Sanders stuff.

So what's your opinion on Giannis for Exum + Gobert? Would you do that?

[smauss]

Y'all trippin talkin' 'bout tradin' Giannis for Gobert.

I thought Giannis for Gobert + Exum would be interesting. I still think I'd keep Giannis in that scenario.

No way I'd trade him just straight up for Gobert though... even if Giannis isn't a good athlete.

I'd do that deal in a heartbeat.....

[jakecronus8]

If Utah calls and offers Gobert and their pick for Mormon Lebron I do it in a second.

Eta: first I'd counter with Exum/Pick but would also do Gobert + pick

[ReasonablySober]

Gobert's allowing 37% FG at the rim, tops in the league. The Utah defense goes from 101.0 with him on the court to 111.4 off the court.

That's prime Sanders stuff.

So what's your opinion on Giannis for Exum + Gobert? Would you do that?

Nope. A writer I like (I think Jason Concepcion) had a comment on Giannis that I really liked. It was something along the lines of Giannis having unreal potential, but the best part about him is we really don't have a clue about what kind of player he ends up being. I've probably seen 90% of his games, and I agree. People could say he's the next Odom or he's another Garnett or he's another Nic Batum, and any one of them could be correct. I watch a lot of Thunder basketball and every time I can't help but see Giannis in Durant so if you said that he could be Durant-like if he added a lethal jumper, I'd believe you.

But again, I don't think anyone knows what kind of player he really ends up being. I know I'm not trading that unless I know I'm getting a legit star, even as I acknowledge he could end up being nothing more than a really good role player.

[Newz]

Gobert's allowing 37% FG at the rim, tops in the league. The Utah defense goes from 101.0 with him on the court to 111.4 off the court.

That's prime Sanders stuff.

So what's your opinion on Giannis for Exum + Gobert? Would you do that?

Nope. A writer I like (I think Jason Concepcion) had a comment on Giannis that I really liked. It was something along the lines of Giannis having unreal potential, but the best part about him is we really don't have a clue about what kind of player he ends up being. I've probably seen 90% of his games, and I agree. People could say he's the next Odom or he's another Garnett or he's another Nic Batum, and any one of them could be correct. I watch a lot of Thunder basketball and every time I can't help but see Giannis in Durant so if you said that he could be Durant-like if he added a lethal jumper, I'd believe you.

But again, I don't think anyone knows what kind of player he really ends up being. I know I'm not trading that unless I know I'm getting a legit star, even as I acknowledge he could end up being nothing more than a really good role player.

Yeah.

I don't think any of Giannis, Exum or Gobert have superstar potential. I think Exum could be a top 10 PG and I is most likely a "third tier" type of guy. He's someone who you probably want being your third best player and maybe if you have a superstud he could be your second best guy. I think one of the most valuable things about Exum is due to his size you can play him next to guys like Knight... and there are so many talented, undersized 2-guards that I think that's rather valuable.

Gobert is another guy who is probably never a good enough offensive player to be your second best guy, but he's likely an elite role player and one of those rare to find dominant defensive bigs who can provide efficiency within his limited offense.

I don't think Giannis is KG or Durant. I also don't think he's Batum. I really like the Odom comparison... but I make that comparison thinking he can be Odom without the mental hangups and with the appropriate amount of motivation. I think he can be a efficient 20-22 point, 8 rebound and 4-5 assist a night guy with above average defense. He did surprise me with how big of a step forward he took this year though... and while I doubt his ability to be elite, I do agree he'd be elite if he randomly develops great range. When I say this I don't mean "If he can kind of shoot the three when he's wide open". I mean if he can stick a three point shot with someone in his face at a reasonable clip as the clock is winding down like a lot of the elite scorers can... then he can be elite. I don't see Giannis developing that ability, but maybe he surpises me.

Regardless, I think Giannis is going to develop into the type of guy who can be the second best player on a contender and who has a very, very, very slim chance of being a legit superstar. The other two guys I see as great 'third best' guys who have the benefit of having extremely valuable tools (elite rim defender, excellent size for a PG). But in the end I keep the guy who I think becomes the best player. So I go with Giannis.

[ReasonablySober]

Newz, I think you're underselling Giannis's potential a bit, but to each their own I guess.

The closest comparison to Giannis at age 20 is KG. The only difference is Giannis is scoring more efficiently and Kidd is refusing to play him the heavy minutes KG got at the same age.

Given he can do things like this...

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5q07UmlArY[/youtube]

and this:

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwRg7dWuWuU[/youtube]

...I'm not sure how his potential could be any higher.

But again, it's all subjective.

[stitches]

I think you guys would be crazy to trade Giannis for pretty much anything except an already established superstar in a long-term contract. And that's not because I see Giannis as some monster right now, but because I see the potential for greatness in him down the road(he's my absolute favourite young player in the league right now). Teams like you and us can't really afford to lose such players for anything less. We will never be the place where superstar free agents look to continue their careers, we will never even be the place where superstars will be willing to be traded to(and accept extension on their deals). Pretty much the only way for the Utahs and the Milwaukees of the world to get a superstar is through the draft or by acquiring their rookie contracts. Get their 4-year rookie contract, extend them for 5 and have the option to give them another 5 at max. That's pretty much the only weapon small markets have in the fight against the big markets - the ability to offer their rising stars the best deal possible.

With that said, I think most Jazz fans and the Jazz FO probably look at Gobert in a similar way to the way you look at Giannis and probably wouldn't trade him unless the offer is indeed insane. He's a unique physical specimen with unique skillset. Elite rim-protectors are not easy to find and we have arguably the best one in the league... and that's in his second season in the league. Imagine the potential with some more strength training and developing a couple of go-to offensive moves. I see Gobert as a potential perennial DPOY candidate down the road. I think that the chance that he gets the 5 year max extension in a couple of years looks very possible right now.

In general it's great to see that two of the smaller markets managed to grab two of the best prospect from that otherwise horrible 2013 draft.

[Newz]

Newz, I think you're underselling Giannis's potential a bit, but to each their own I guess.

Oh, I love Giannis. I like him more now than I did at the start of the year. It's why I wouldn't pull the trigger on dealing him for packages like Exum + Gobert.

I just see very few players as superstars and potential superstars. I see Giannis play and I don't see him as being smooth enough to be pulling off the type of perimeter shots that Durant does and I don't see him as powerful enough to just dominate consistently near the rim like a LeBron. I don't see him as quick enough side to side to be dominant defensively like Garnett... who was not only a monster near the rim, but was also a terror in PnR defense.

I do really like Giannis' game though. Maybe he's just even more talented than I give him credit for, maybe he just carves out his own niche as a superstar... but I don't really see him being an elite scorer, an elite defender or an elite distributor... I just see him being good/very good at all of that stuff, but not great. I don't think you can be considered an elite player if you don't really have an elite skill.

I'd be glad to be wrong though! He is a super gifted player, I'm not going to rule anything out since he's only 20 (and was 19 earlier in the season). He has a ton of time to grow as a player and physically. I'm not even sure if he remains a perimeter player... I would be surprised to see him play PF and as he evolves, maybe even C.

[Prince12]

I just don't see myself in 10 years thinking we should've traded him but I could certainly see myself suffering from severe depression knowing we gave away a potential superstar. i see him averaging 18-20ppg, 8-10rpg, 5-7 apg with a couple steals and blocks. There's not many players worth giving up those kinds of numbers.

[El Duderino]

Newz, I think you're underselling Giannis's potential a bit, but to each their own I guess.

The closest comparison to Giannis at age 20 is KG. The only difference is Giannis is scoring more efficiently and Kidd is refusing to play him the heavy minutes KG got at the same age.

Given he can do things like this...

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5q07UmlArY[/youtube]

and this:

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwRg7dWuWuU[/youtube]

...I'm not sure how his potential could be any higher.

But again, it's all subjective.

I love Giannis as much as all other Bucks fans, but nobody can dunk their way into being a top 10 player. He obviously flashes such immense potential with these dunks and he's so fabulous to watch in transition, but it's in the half court offense where the top players prove their worth most. Right now he's clearly limited in half court offense because he has nothing close to a reliable jump shot and it's nearly impossible to be great without an ability to shoot. Garnett being a prime example. Once he became a quality midrange jump shooter, Garnett went from being a super intriguing talent to superstar level.

He's only 20 so without question there is time for his jump shot to get a lot better. I have no clue though to what degree Giannis improves as a shooter going forward, but if he can, it will be brutal for defenders trying to guard him. What will help that cause is he wants so bad to be great, so work ethic will never be something that gets in the way of Giannis improving each year.

[AussieBuck]

Step forward, nerds. Which of you isn't trading Giannis for Davis.

Who are your top 5 Prospects under 22?

5 - Wiggins
4 - Embiid
3 - Giannis
2 - Drummond
1 - Davis

Wouldn't consider Davis or Drummond prospects, however.

How is Drummond not a prospect? He can't do anything other than catch a ball and dunk it. Sure he's great at those things but that's about it.

[AussieBuck]

I posted Parker for Exum and Gobert before the season and got murdered.

[El Duderino]

Newz, I think you're underselling Giannis's potential a bit, but to each their own I guess.

I do really like Giannis' game though. Maybe he's just even more talented than I give him credit for, maybe he just carves out his own niche as a superstar... but I don't really see him being an elite scorer, an elite defender or an elite distributor... I just see him being good/very good at all of that stuff, but not great. I don't think you can be considered an elite player if you don't really have an elite skill..

I think he already has two elite skills, but neither is enough on it's own to make Giannis a lock to become a top 10 player down the road.

1. Transition offense. For a 20 year old kid and with his insane size/length, Giannis can take the ball in transition, cover the court in a blink with those long strides, good handle, and finish at the rim on a level not all that many others in the league can. This again from a 20 year old.

2. Dribble penetration to finish at the rim in the half court. He's not quite yet as gifted in this regard compared to where his transition skills are, but it's not that far behind. When you consider the massive jump he's made in this skill from last year and the fact that every defender guarding him sags off with no fear of Giannis taking a jump shot, it's pretty amazing that he's able to drive and score at the rim as he does. He'll only get better at this every year. Then the only matter left will be if he can develop a jumper so that defenders can't sag way off him to protect against the drive, along with the rest of opposing defenders who are all just waiting for him to potentially drive the paint because they know he won't take the open jumper.

[Nowak008]

Gobert's allowing 37% FG at the rim, tops in the league. The Utah defense goes from 101.0 with him on the court to 111.4 off the court.

That's prime Sanders stuff.

In the world cup Gobert dominated the Gasol brothers and was a big reason why they upset Spain. He is averaging a silly 3.6 blocks a game in Jan. The guy has a massive upside, still only 22! Gobert's upside isn't as high as Giannis, but its pretty easy to see Gobert being top 5 DPOY player for his entire prime. His value is IMO on par with Giannis.