What would you look to do in the offseason (BUCKS)?

BucksFanSD · Post #2361 » by **BucksFanSD** » Thu May 21, 2015 8:17 pm

I make Minnesota the following offer:

Milwaukee In: Karl Towns (#1), Bad contract
Minnesota In: John Henson, Tyus Jones (#17), Milwaukee 2016 1st rounder, Milwaukee 2017 1st rounder, Plumlee.

-That's essentially 5 first round picks to the T-wolves. Henson is worth a first rounder, as is the bad contract coming back our way.
-3rd team could be involved as needed.

PG: MCW
SG: Middleton
SF: Jabari
PF: Giannis
C: Towns

skones · Post #2362 » by **skones** » Thu May 21, 2015 8:40 pm

BucksFanSD wrote:I make Minnesota the following offer:

Milwaukee In: Karl Towns (#1), Bad contract
Minnesota In: John Henson, Tyus Jones (#17), Milwaukee 2016 1st rounder, Milwaukee 2017 1st rounder, Mason Plumlee.

-That's essentially 5 first round picks to the T-wolves. Henson is worth a first rounder, as is the bad contract coming back our way.
-3rd team could be involved as needed.

PG: MCW
SG: Middleton
SF: Jabari
PF: Giannis
C: Towns

That offer is bad, and you can't deal back to back future firsts.

Post #2363 » by **ReasonablySober** » Thu May 21, 2015 9:00 pm

I would have no problem putting Henson, the #17 and an unprotected 2017 1st on the table for the right prospect.

Baddy Chuck · Post #2364 » by **Baddy Chuck** » Thu May 21, 2015 9:01 pm

People are really overrating guys like Henson, Ersan, Ennis and Plumlees overall value IMO.

Post #2365 » by **ReasonablySober** » Thu May 21, 2015 9:03 pm

Baddy Chuck wrote:People are really overrating guys like Henson, Ersan, Ennis and Plumlees overall value IMO.

I don't really think any of those three really have any appreciable value.

I do think Henson's got some value.

Baddy Chuck · Post #2366 » by **Baddy Chuck** » Thu May 21, 2015 9:07 pm

ReasonablySober wrote:
Baddy Chuck wrote:People are really overrating guys like Henson, Ersan, Ennis and Plumlees overall value IMO.

I don't really think any of those three really have any appreciable value.

I do think Henson's got some value.

Agreed but I still think many people are adding a mediocre pick to a medicore prospect and hoping for something much better than that package is worth. Top 10? :lol:

Ersan in particular it's almost laughable to me that people think he has much more value than a salary filler.

BucksFanSD · Post #2367 » by **BucksFanSD** » Thu May 21, 2015 9:08 pm

Henson does have value, more to some teams than others.

But I agree Ersan, Ennis and Plumlee don't have much value. Ersan and Plumlee had value two years ago. I hope we don't say that for Henson two years from now if he's still a Buck.

Wise1 · Post #2368 » by **Wise1** » Thu May 21, 2015 9:27 pm

I don't see Henson being moved any time soon. The Bucks obviously value defensive length and of course Henson fits that profile. I do like the OJ and Ersan for Nene package that I read on the net.

AussieBuck · Post #2369 » by **AussieBuck** » Thu May 21, 2015 10:40 pm

yoshii8 wrote:Those advocating for Rubio, I'm pretty sure Kidd handpicked MCW as the pg he wants to roll with. I think MCW showed enough promise to keep him around.

Rubio is better than MCWs potential.

MiltownHawkeye · Post #2370 » by **MiltownHawkeye** » Thu May 21, 2015 11:39 pm

AussieBuck wrote:
yoshii8 wrote:Those advocating for Rubio, I'm pretty sure Kidd handpicked MCW as the pg he wants to roll with. I think MCW showed enough promise to keep him around.

Rubio is better than MCWs potential.

I'm in the Rubio fan club but I'm not sure I'd go that far.

buckbeer · Post #2371 » by **buckbeer** » Fri May 22, 2015 12:06 am

For me I prefer to start MCW at PG than trade for an injury prone Rubio, and also like to give Ennis a chance of establishing himself as backup PG to replace Bayless.

skones · Post #2372 » by **skones** » Fri May 22, 2015 12:12 am

MiltownHawkeye wrote:
AussieBuck wrote:
yoshii8 wrote:Those advocating for Rubio, I'm pretty sure Kidd handpicked MCW as the pg he wants to roll with. I think MCW showed enough promise to keep him around.

Rubio is better than MCWs potential.

I'm in the Rubio fan club but I'm not sure I'd go that far.

I think both will have equally bad jumpshots throughout their careers, but Rubio's vision and ability to run an offense will always be better than MCW. He's one of those guys with "special" ability in that regard. His splits, particularly on the defensive end have also been VERY impressive over the past couple of years. I have a hard time seeing MCW being special in any area.

Bucks_MacGyver · Post #2373 » by **Bucks_MacGyver** » Fri May 22, 2015 12:25 am

gosh can we give MCW a full season with Kidd before we judge if he has potential or not... jeesh. I sometimes wonder if this board can handle success going forward, everyone is going to think they have the answers (yes I know thats the point of message boards but its a pet peeve of mine)

Post #2374 » by **paulpressey25** » Fri May 22, 2015 12:37 am

Baddy Chuck wrote:People are really overrating guys like Henson, Ersan, Ennis and Plumlees overall value IMO.

At the same time, a number of folks here underrated assets we later traded. Guys like RJ, Salmons, broken ankle Bogut and even Brandon Knight all brought back a lot more value than people thought the Bucks would ever get at the time of those deals.

Never underestimate a stupid GM who feels that one of our vets might be a worthy addition to their team. Now I'm not saying Ersan brings back the #15 pick in this draft, but there might be some permutation out there that gets you incremental value.

Matches Malone · Post #2375 » by **Matches Malone** » Fri May 22, 2015 12:56 am

BucksFanSD wrote:I make Minnesota the following offer:

Milwaukee In: Karl Towns (#1), Bad contract
Minnesota In: John Henson, Tyus Jones (#17), Milwaukee 2016 1st rounder, Milwaukee 2017 1st rounder, Plumlee.

-That's essentially 5 first round picks to the T-wolves. Henson is worth a first rounder, as is the bad contract coming back our way.
-3rd team could be involved as needed.

PG: MCW
SG: Middleton
SF: Jabari
PF: Giannis
C: Towns

Woof. That's a lot to give up. I like Towns but not that much. I'm against trading future picks as you never know what they can turn into or what prospects make a name for themselves. I think any hope of Minnesota trading that pick would come at the price of either Parker or Giannis and I wouldn't move either for the #1 pick this year.

Bernman · Post #2376 » by **Bernman** » Fri May 22, 2015 12:57 am

paulpressey25 wrote:At the same time, a number of folks here underrated assets we later traded. Guys like RJ, Salmons, broken ankle Bogut and even Brandon Knight all brought back a lot more value than people thought the Bucks would ever get at the time of those deals.

Never underestimate a stupid GM who feels that one of our vets might be a worthy addition to their team. Now I'm not saying Ersan brings back the #15 pick in this draft, but there might be some permutation out there that gets you incremental value.

Yeah, they all have at least marginally positive value. Plumlee was a starter before he came to Milwaukee, is near 7', and dirt cheap. Ersan is effectively on a 1-year contract, can be 2 if you want it to be, and is a 4 who can shoot 3's and is adequate in the other aspects.

As for Henson, he has decent value, and so does Ennis probably. Ennis was #18 in a great draft last year. A year later he's nothing even though he was a rookie and came out after his freshman season? He should still fetch you a late first by himself, logically. Henson late teens early 20's at least, when he was drafted 14th a few years ago and has about played like that. There aren't teams who can use a shot blocker, decent rebounder, and who can score around the basket? We just want to move him because we don't have enough core guys and we can potentially get a player like that using him as a chip. We just have to take it in the form of a pick and gamble with that. We're in a position to do that. Other teams are in a different position.

Among many here there is a definite projection of a player's value to us onto other teams. We don't need or maybe even want established role players yet, but teams in contention or with their core in place do. Hell, so do treadmill teams who don't mind staying that way like when Kohl was here of course.

Hell, there's also way to quick of a dismissal of players as just role players. I remember plenty of people acting like Middleton was just a throw-in for trades last season, only for him to possibly command max money this offseason.

Post #2377 » by **paulpressey25** » Fri May 22, 2015 1:08 am

Heck Bern, look what WE gave up when Kohl/Karl/Grunfeld thought Jason Caffey and later Anthony Mason would be our missing link piece at PF for the Big Three team.

Again, I don't think our guys have huge value, but as we did with Knight and Phoenix, you find the right buyer. And whether you prefer MCW or the Lakers pick, either way that was an unexpected asset haul for us. That's why I am optimistic about this June/July offseason. I think our front office is going to be highly creative.

Bernman · Post #2378 » by **Bernman** » Fri May 22, 2015 1:15 am

Ill-yasova wrote:I disagree here. It was the bench coming back down from the atmosphere that lead to the struggles, specifically the Jareds.
I'm with Crkone on this.

Duds

Bayless

That closely coincides with when Knight was traded. He was having efficient games thru the first game after the trade. Then it was all downhill from there. And he was occasionally just hoisting up quick 3's regardless if he was pressured or not, just to get shots up. Mayo went crazy about that with MCW around.

There was also an odd emphasis on how he and the team was disproportionately better in the last 15 games. So was Sessions. Not to 1:1 compare the 2, but the point is most teams give less of a s**t about game-planning and playing defense at that point to exploit a player's deficiencies.

Scoring was definitely a pain-staking process against better teams who gave a s**t last season because MCW's shooting was that abysmal, and we didn't have enough shooters to compensate. We need at least 3 solid ones from outside the 3-point line if we're going to keep MCW in the lineup and still expect to win 50+ games.

raferfenix · Post #2379 » by **raferfenix** » Fri May 22, 2015 1:18 am

ReasonablySober wrote:I would have no problem putting Henson, the #17 and an unprotected 2017 1st on the table for the right prospect.

A future pick from us would be risky (even if it's top 5 protection or the like) but that is what gives it value.

Who do we think might be 'the right' prospect that would warrant taking that leap?

Bernman · Post #2380 » by **Bernman** » Fri May 22, 2015 1:23 am

paulpressey25 wrote:Heck Bern, look what WE gave up when Kohl/Karl/Grunfeld thought Jason Caffey and later Anthony Mason would be our missing link piece at PF for the Big Three team.

Again, I don't think our guys have huge value, but as we did with Knight and Phoenix, you find the right buyer. And whether you prefer MCW or the Lakers pick, either way that was an unexpected asset haul for us. That's why I am optimistic about this June/July offseason. I think our front office is going to be highly creative.

Yep, I figure the attractive deals are there, it's just a matter of finding them and being willing to unload particular players like Henson and Ersan finally.

I think they will find them for the players they are motivated to move. They earned somewhat of a benefit of doubt now with the Jennings and Knight deals. That was wonderful asset management.

Henson I think they are motivated to move. It's thru year 3 and they had a hard time of trusting him last season the way his minutes were managed. Plus, for right or wrong, Kidd seemingly loves MCW, they want to build around him, and that means shooting is at a premium, which they came out and admitted even.

To wit though, I'll be surprised if they move Ersan. Parker won't be ready for a while and Ersan helps put MCW on the path to be more viable. Plus, as I said, that contract is short, but flexible.