Michael Carter-Williams: PG of the future?

[imithanos]

I dont think the way MCW is playing right now is promising, exciting or whatever.
My big reassurance is the off-season, Kidd and his injury on his shoulder last season. If he can improve his open 3p% and get rid some of the bad habits he got in Philly, I would be happy. Otherwise he is in a rookie contract and we can still hope that at least Ennis can turn into a good PG.

My main concern this summer/next season will be finding/trading/drafting a promising center. I will evaluate MCW's value after the next ASG.

[raferfenix]

I mean, he's made a lot of great no-look passes already in the few games he's been with the team. He's always had very good court vision IMO, dating back to high school. He hasn't figured out the balance between risk and reward on his passes yet, but the way he sees the court has always impressed me.

Agree. And aside from anecdotally seeing some great passes from him already, Magic Johnson and Jason Kidd talking MCW's court vision up also is highly persuasive to me.

Not sure what the analytics say here but I suspect the 'balancing risk reward' issue is coming into play.

This is also where I see MCW playing too fast as the primary problem for him.

He seems to get overexcited when he takes it to the rack and throws up shots he shouldn't or makes wild passes. MCW needs to “Let the play develop" as Kidd put it, which requires patience. That comes with experience and coaching, as it did for Kidd, who clearly sees much of himself in MCW.

[Treebeard]

It's somewhat amazing to me his engagement on the sidelines when he's there. He is constantly paying attention. Not all 20 year olds would do that.

I've been happy to see that, too. Jabari was right there as part of the celebration after Middleton hit the game-winner the other night, and he's obviously involved and engaged in other ways, which I think is great. Compare and contrast to Michael Redd when he was rehabbing his knee the last time and seemed completely disconnected from the team.

It isn't just about being a rookie with a lot to learn. It's about being there and supporting your teammates regardless of your league tenure. By his presence Jabari is showing us something about his character.

Several times I've seen Parker talking with one of the Asssistants during timeouts. A couple of those times, Parker's been there with clipboard in hand, and seems to be reviewing something with the assistant... Ingliss seems to be there as well for most of the games too.

[H2tObes]

I think MCW is awesome when he decides to attack the basket, I wasn't aware he was so athletic before he joined the Bucks

If he could simply look to run the offense better (being a pass first guard), never shoot unless its a pull up mid range shot, and just overall slow the game down for himself....he could be good. Im 90% sure he will always be a poor 3 point shooter though, it dampens my excitement for him quite a lot

Our rookies seem like dudes who want to win basketball games in the future...with how impressive Jabari was in the NBA for a rookie, I think he still goes #1 in this upcoming draft post ACL tear. Unless he loses all explosiveness his game could very easily be refined to not rely on his knees too much. It would be foolish to cut bait with him this early. This draft really isn't very good. Jahlil < Jabari

[sidney lanier]

It's really unfair to characterize it as just wanting to trade everyone who's not a superstar, thinking the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence, or being too negative and critical about young players. We're not just talking about run-of-the-mill "failure to live up to our highest hopes" here. The guys I was clamoring to trade have mostly been not just disappointments, but rather unmitigated disasters in terms of trying to build a team around them, and for the exact reasons I predicted they would be. I could see how somehow would have been skeptical of my attitude 3-5 years ago, but even people who can't stand me would have to concede that I might have had a point. It's pretty hard to argue that the Bucks wouldn't have gotten a lot more than they did for Redd, Bogut, Mo, Yi, Jennings, or Sanders if they had traded them when I said their value had peaked.

If I'm being unjust, I apologize. But I've been reading and responding to your posts for a long time (long before I came over here), and my recollection is you've always been more eager to churn rosters than the average bear. Casting off players before they hit peak value has some merit, but the costs outweigh the merit IMO. NBA trades are not frictionless transactions. Something is almost always lost in the asset swap. There's always entropy.

Not only that, but the flawed player we get in return for the flawed player we give up is just as susceptible to the vagaries of career trajectory as is the outbound player. Trade Dez Mason for Jamaal Magloire, as we did years ago (and probably discussed at the time), and you pick up new problems to replace the ones you offloaded. Most NBA trades are like that, trash for trash, and many of the moves you've advocated over the years reminded me of buying somebody else's yard sale junk only to sell it later at our own yard sale.

We've lucked into some assets that would never be plunked on a card table in the front yard. The idea of churning them for something else seems like a bad one to me.

And to bring it back to the thread topic, I'm not sure I'd even want to trade MCW for a while despite his mission to show us and the world that if we thought the Cowboy's 23% shooting from outside the arc was bad, we didn't know what bad 3P shooting was until now.

[BUCKSFORLIFE]

I also think Jabari could benefit from the Blake Griffin effect. Sitting out most of the year undoubtedly has its advantages for young players in a sense that they can observe and be coached up/developed before being thrust into NBA action immediately.

I think Griffin benefitted from this and I doubt he puts up the same numbers (20/10) if he hadn't been able to sit back and take in the NBA game at a slower pace. Jabari already played a handful of games before he went down so it wouldn't surprise me to see him come back and average something like 20/7/3 on decent percentages next year.

It's somewhat amazing to me his engagement on the sidelines when he's there. He is constantly paying attention. Not all 20 year olds would do that.

He also hasn't gotten fat, something everyone had a joke about prior to the year.

I think he's showing dedication while not even being able to get on the court. As long as his body responds, there is no reason he can't be a very, very good player. He's got the skills and the brain. Now I just pray he's got the knees.

It is not a joke about him being fat. It is the very reason he got hurt in my opinion. He would get winded in games and his muscles were not ready to withstand the exertion he was putting on them. Out of shape muscles are very much more likely to get injured period.

Does anybody remember when we drafted Glen Robinson. In college Glen was a stud, maybe on the greatest college basketball players of all time. He was in shape in college and had a nice attitude coming into the NBA, However he got lazy and complacent and look what happened. I think the parallels are the same with Jabari but unfortunately he suffered a very serious knee injury as a result of being complacent and now he is just a great unknown. H

[trwi7]

It is not a joke about him being fat. It is the very reason he got hurt in my opinion. He would get winded in games and his muscles were not ready to withstand the exertion he was putting on them. Out of shape muscles are very much more likely to get injured period.

You know the ACL isn't a muscle, right?

[BobbyLight]

He was fat when he tore his ACL? I feel like I missed that...

Also... what trwi said.

[BUCKSFORLIFE]

It is not a joke about him being fat. It is the very reason he got hurt in my opinion. He would get winded in games and his muscles were not ready to withstand the exertion he was putting on them. Out of shape muscles are very much more likely to get injured period.

You know the ACL isn't a muscle, right?

Your muscles support your joints. I should know I have had 3 knee surgeries and have no knee cartilage left in my right knee. I have been able to avoid a knee replacement buy strengthening the the muscles that support the knee.

So it is very likely that at the time of this injury Jabari's muscles that support the knee were tired and unable to help absorb the shock which ultimately caused the injury to ACL

[BUCKSFORLIFE]

He was fat when he tore his ACL? I feel like I missed that...

Also... what trwi said.

He was clearly out of shape. No question about it. He looked winded often during games I watched.

[trwi7]

It is not a joke about him being fat. It is the very reason he got hurt in my opinion. He would get winded in games and his muscles were not ready to withstand the exertion he was putting on them. Out of shape muscles are very much more likely to get injured period.

You know the ACL isn't a muscle, right?

Your muscles support your joints. I should know I have had 3 knee surgeries and have no knee cartilage left in my right knee. I have been able to avoid a knee replacement buy strengthening the the muscles that support the knee.

So it is very likely that at the time of this injury Jabari's muscles that support the knee were tired and unable to help absorb the shock which ultimately caused the injury to ACL

You may have had 3 knee surgeries but your lack of understanding of what causes an ACL tear is astonishing.

[BUCKSFORLIFE]

You know the ACL isn't a muscle, right?

Your muscles support your joints. I should know I have had 3 knee surgeries and have no knee cartilage left in my right knee. I have been able to avoid a knee replacement buy strengthening the the muscles that support the knee.

So it is very likely that at the time of this injury Jabari's muscles that support the knee were tired and unable to help absorb the shock which ultimately caused the injury to ACL

You may have had 3 knee surgeries but your lack of understanding of what causes an ACL tear is astonishing.

I love how people on this board make self serving statements to ridicule other posters with no meat to back it up. FYI I tore my ACL playing basketball because I was out of shape and my muscles could not support my knees when I jumped up for a rebound and and landed with all my weight on one leg. My surgeon total me being out of shape was the very reason I hurt my knee in the first place. Previous to that injury I had no problems with my knees whatsoever.

[coolhandluke121]

Jabari even admitted his conditioning was poor. I don't remember the exact quotation, but I think he was asked about not playing in the 4th quarter of a close game or something like that. He wasn't "fat", but his bulk and size were certainly risk factors. He'll also have to change the way he plays a little. The way he would dance and shift and make hard cuts on one foot like a boxer can't be helping things. It's a lot like the way Wade plays and while it's great for making space and getting shots off, it's probably not so good for the knees.

[coolhandluke121]

You may have had 3 knee surgeries but your lack of understanding of what causes an ACL tear is astonishing.

Being out of shape and lacking muscle proportional to a player's weight is a huge risk factor. If your muscles can't sustain the force, the ligaments will have to pick up the slack. Not good. Having muscles that are too inflexible is also an issue - if the muscles won't stretch as much as they should, the ligaments and tendons will have to. If they can't, big trouble.

[trwi7]

Your muscles support your joints. I should know I have had 3 knee surgeries and have no knee cartilage left in my right knee. I have been able to avoid a knee replacement buy strengthening the the muscles that support the knee.

So it is very likely that at the time of this injury Jabari's muscles that support the knee were tired and unable to help absorb the shock which ultimately caused the injury to ACL

You may have had 3 knee surgeries but your lack of understanding of what causes an ACL tear is astonishing.

I love how people on this board make self serving statements to ridicule other posters with no meat to back it up. FYI I tore my ACL playing basketball because I was out of shape and my muscles could not support my knees when I jumped up for a rebound and and landed with all my weight on one leg. My surgeon total me being out of shape was the very reason I hurt my knee in the first place. Previous to that injury I had no problems with my knees whatsoever.

That may have been the case for you but I suggest you go watch how Parker tore his ACL. It had to do with him driving and getting in an awkward position causing his knee to twist. That's most certainly not caused by being out of shape.

[BUCKSFORLIFE]

You may have had 3 knee surgeries but your lack of understanding of what causes an ACL tear is astonishing.

I love how people on this board make self serving statements to ridicule other posters with no meat to back it up. FYI I tore my ACL playing basketball because I was out of shape and my muscles could not support my knees when I jumped up for a rebound and and landed with all my weight on one leg. My surgeon total me being out of shape was the very reason I hurt my knee in the first place. Previous to that injury I had no problems with my knees whatsoever.

That may have been the case for you but I suggest you go watch how Parker tore his ACL. It had to do with him driving and getting in an awkward position causing his knee to twist. That's most certainly not caused by being out of shape.

I watched this video over and over and to be honest it did not look like much. It was shocking he was injured to that degree from that play. If his muscles could not support his joints through what you describe as an awkward movement then yes he could be injured more easily and is what I believe happened.

[paulpressey25]

The way he would dance and shift and make hard cuts on one foot like a boxer can't be helping things. It's a lot like the way Wade plays and while it's great for making space and getting shots off, it's probably not so good for the knees.

That's the challenge with Jabari. What makes his game unique was he has unique explosiveness and shake and bake for guy his size.

I agree with you, this body type could be a long-term problem. That said, we were faced with a number of imperfect choices. The only choice I saw with no risks last year was Wiggins.

[MiltownHawkeye]

Your muscles support your joints. I should know I have had 3 knee surgeries and have no knee cartilage left in my right knee. I have been able to avoid a knee replacement buy strengthening the the muscles that support the knee.

So it is very likely that at the time of this injury Jabari's muscles that support the knee were tired and unable to help absorb the shock which ultimately caused the injury to ACL

You may have had 3 knee surgeries but your lack of understanding of what causes an ACL tear is astonishing.

I love how people on this board make self serving statements to ridicule other posters with no meat to back it up. FYI I tore my ACL playing basketball because I was out of shape and my muscles could not support my knees when I jumped up for a rebound and and landed with all my weight on one leg. My surgeon total me being out of shape was the very reason I hurt my knee in the first place. Previous to that injury I had no problems with my knees whatsoever.

There's no "meat" to back up your point, you're just insisting that Jabari tore his ACL because he's fat and lazy and that it couldn't possibly be because, you know, sometimes athletes tear their ACLs.

[BUCKSFORLIFE]

You may have had 3 knee surgeries but your lack of understanding of what causes an ACL tear is astonishing.

I love how people on this board make self serving statements to ridicule other posters with no meat to back it up. FYI I tore my ACL playing basketball because I was out of shape and my muscles could not support my knees when I jumped up for a rebound and and landed with all my weight on one leg. My surgeon total me being out of shape was the very reason I hurt my knee in the first place. Previous to that injury I had no problems with my knees whatsoever.

There's no "meat" to back up your point, you're just insisting that Jabari tore his ACL because he's fat and lazy and that it couldn't possibly be because, you know, sometimes athletes tear their ACLs.

It happens more often when they are out of shape. FYI I predicted he would suffer a severe injury beginning of the season when I saw how out of shape he was during the pre-season. Here is a guy who had the world watching him and he could not come into camp in shape. Then even through the pre-season he was still sucking wind hard. For me it was just a matter of time.

[TroyD92]

The way he would dance and shift and make hard cuts on one foot like a boxer can't be helping things. It's a lot like the way Wade plays and while it's great for making space and getting shots off, it's probably not so good for the knees.

The only choice I saw with no risks last year was Wiggins.

Except that he doesn't want "it"