Bucks Board Consensus Draft Rankings - pg. 5

[German Athens]

Well, to claim he isn't a good athlete is one thing and then to back track to point out just the half court sets is another. There are still plenty of lobs and back door cuts that he has shown off in the half court, along with his transition exploits. While I agree with you about dekker and that he can attack the rim hard, keep in mind the differences in roles on the two teams. Dekker was the second best player on his team and had the best physical profile. Hezonja is playing in the second best league in the world against professionals. He's not asked to be the number 1 or 2 option, he's asked to be a floor spacer and an opportunistic driver. Along with that, I'm not all that hell bent on consistent production. It would be nice, but in todays scouting universe you're hoping to see flashes and if they can be consistent than awesome. I look for the flashes of mismatch and stud at the nba level. In my opinion, he has flashed those in spades. I think dekker can be a good pro, a really good role player and bench player, or a solid spot starter. I think hezonja could be an all-star and possibly a rich mans Gordon Hayward or klay Thompson. I recognize those two are a reach, but he' got all the tools. The biggest question is what he has upstairs, which I can't answer.

[Bernman]

Well, to claim he isn't a good athlete is one thing and then to back track to point out just the half court sets is another. There are still plenty of lobs and back door cuts that he has shown off in the half court, along with his transition exploits. While I agree with you about dekker and that he can attack the rim hard, keep in mind the differences in roles on the two teams. Dekker was the second best player on his team and had the best physical profile. Hezonja is playing in the second best league in the world against professionals. He's not asked to be the number 1 or 2 option, he's asked to be a floor spacer and an opportunistic driver. Along with that, I'm not all that hell bent on consistent production. It would be nice, but in todays scouting universe you're hoping to see flashes and if they can be consistent than awesome. I look for the flashes of mismatch and stud at the nba level. In my opinion, he has flashed those in spades. I think dekker can be a good pro, a really good role player and bench player, or a solid spot starter. I think hezonja could be an all-star and possibly a rich mans Gordon Hayward or klay Thompson. I recognize those two are a reach, but he' got all the tools. The biggest question is what he has upstairs, which I can't answer.

There is no backtracking. Those are the types of samples I watched to draw a conclusion from about his athleticism. Not highlight videos of him dunking here and there mostly in the fullcourt like Brandon Jennings. Maybe how he'd fare in a dunk contest was a bad example, but I didn't see athleticism applied to a game much.

His prospects vs. Dekker is another discussion. For one, Hezonja being a more efficient shooter plays into that. But from what I know I expect Dekker to be a considerably better NBA player. I'm sure Hezonja's team doesn't demand he doesn't score on well-timed cuts and penetration off kick outs. Whereas Wisconsin's style is an impediment to Dekker's scoring/playmaking because Bo Ryan is an extremist about not turning the ball over and taking decent shots earlier in the clock, for which you'll get pulled. That took away plenty of isos, creation for teammates, and transition baskets out of his arsenal. Going back to Hezonja, I know in Europe they don't amass big rebounding #'s really, but 2 in 17 minutes still seems awfully low for a good athlete who is 6'8".

[turbostef]

He is athletic for European Standards. In the NBA he will just be OK for a white guy

Hayward and Thompson are as far as the earth from the moon right now for him.
Just one Example: Papanikolaou was considered quite athletic in Europe.
In the NBA he is not even close to be considered athletic.

So don't be disappointed when Hezonja won't do Wigging-things. And I guarantee you he will not even be close to him.

Watch the last Game Barcelona vs. Olympiacos and not Highlight Videos to get a full picture.

Additionally as I said he is a big mouth. I don't thin he has the right charactere.

Lot's of question marks for a top 5 pick. I don't follow College Ball that much to now exactly how goofd
this draft class is but in a good draft class even a top 10 pick could turn out as a loss.

[SupremeHustle]

The reality is he's not a very good athlete for the NBA. He doesn't play above the rim

Spoiler:

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUcrZ4y_Ccg[/youtube]
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tgH-WBwJzI[/youtube]
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZMXAcgnSjM[/youtube]

Those are probably better "above the rim" plays then any college player on your list. He'd be a good athlete anywhere he plays. You're just digging the hole deeper at this point. Don't like him as a prospect, that's fine by me, but don't act like he isn't a good athlete because that just isn't true.

Looks like a pretty good athlete to me.

[SupremeHustle]

Double post.

[Bernman]

He is athletic for European Standards. In the NBA he will just be OK for a white guy

Hayward and Thompson are as far as the earth from the moon right now for him.
Just one Example: Papanikolaou was considered quite athletic in Europe.
In the NBA he is not even close to be considered athletic.

So don't be disappointed when Hezonja won't do Wigging-things. And I guarantee you he will not even be close to him.

Watch the last Game Barcelona vs. Olympiacos and not Highlight Videos to get a full picture.

Additionally as I said he is a big mouth. I don't thin he has the right charactere.

Lot's of question marks for a top 5 pick. I don't follow College Ball that much to now exactly how goofd
this draft class is but in a good draft class even a top 10 pick could turn out as a loss.

And Sarunas Jasikevicius was one of Europe's best players who was going to make an impact in the NBA, even though he played college basketball where he was a bench player IIRC.

That's not to say there aren't outstanding players that come out of Europe. Obviously there are. But you have to project individually. Some guys have the tools to translate and others don't. Just because you look good for a Euroleague player in a dept doesn't mean you look good for an NBA player.

[Baddy Chuck]

So don't be disappointed when Hezonja won't do Wigging-things. And I guarantee you he will not even be close to him.

Wiggins is a freak, that doesn't change the fact that Hejonza would still be a good athlete in the NBA.

Not highlight videos of him dunking here and there mostly in the fullcourt like Brandon Jennings.

And come on, there's a handful of halfcourt plays in that video that you would absolutely gush over if Sam Dekker did them.

[mattg]

Anyone who thinks hezonja isnt athletic or thinks that he will bust in the nba due to his athletic ability is quite simply a lost cause.

[breakchains]

Good athlete but I'm usually wary of proclamations of athleticism when guys come from overseas. I remember when people talked about Exum like he was damn near Westbrook, when it was pretty clear that he was a good athlete versus his competition, but not a special one. IMO that applies to Hezonja too. Good athlete but not special. Looks to be about in the same tier as Dekker as an athlete.

[mattg]

Good athlete but I'm usually wary of proclamations of athleticism when guys come from overseas. I remember when people talked about Exum like he was damn near Westbrook, when it was pretty clear that he was a good athlete versus his competition, but not a special one. IMO that applies to Hezonja too. Good athlete but not special. Looks to be about in the same tier as Dekker as an athlete.

Exum was playing against austrailian HSers and had a few age group international games. That's far different competition than playing for Barcelona.

[German Athens]

Well, to claim he isn't a good athlete is one thing and then to back track to point out just the half court sets is another. There are still plenty of lobs and back door cuts that he has shown off in the half court, along with his transition exploits. While I agree with you about dekker and that he can attack the rim hard, keep in mind the differences in roles on the two teams. Dekker was the second best player on his team and had the best physical profile. Hezonja is playing in the second best league in the world against professionals. He's not asked to be the number 1 or 2 option, he's asked to be a floor spacer and an opportunistic driver. Along with that, I'm not all that hell bent on consistent production. It would be nice, but in todays scouting universe you're hoping to see flashes and if they can be consistent than awesome. I look for the flashes of mismatch and stud at the nba level. In my opinion, he has flashed those in spades. I think dekker can be a good pro, a really good role player and bench player, or a solid spot starter. I think hezonja could be an all-star and possibly a rich mans Gordon Hayward or klay Thompson. I recognize those two are a reach, but he' got all the tools. The biggest question is what he has upstairs, which I can't answer.

There is no backtracking. Those are the types of samples I watched to draw a conclusion from about his athleticism. Not highlight videos of him dunking here and there mostly in the fullcourt like Brandon Jennings. Maybe how he'd fare in a dunk contest was a bad example, but I didn't see athleticism applied to a game much.

His prospects vs. Dekker is another discussion. For one, Hezonja being a more efficient shooter plays into that. But from what I know I expect Dekker to be a considerably better NBA player. I'm sure Hezonja's team doesn't demand he doesn't score on well-timed cuts and penetration off kick outs. Whereas Wisconsin's style is an impediment to Dekker's scoring/playmaking because Bo Ryan is an extremist about not turning the ball over and taking decent shots earlier in the clock, for which you'll get pulled. That took away plenty of isos, creation for teammates, and transition baskets out of his arsenal. Going back to Hezonja, I know in Europe they don't amass big rebounding #'s really, but 2 in 17 minutes still seems awfully low for a good athlete who is 6'8".

Fair enough. I can respect your opinion. I think hezonja is a great prospect and a very good athlete. I see him being a very good pro, it just depends on the situation he comes into like 99% of the guys coming into the NBA.

[German Athens]

He is athletic for European Standards. In the NBA he will just be OK for a white guy

Hayward and Thompson are as far as the earth from the moon right now for him.
Just one Example: Papanikolaou was considered quite athletic in Europe.
In the NBA he is not even close to be considered athletic.

So don't be disappointed when Hezonja won't do Wigging-things. And I guarantee you he will not even be close to him.

Watch the last Game Barcelona vs. Olympiacos and not Highlight Videos to get a full picture.

Additionally as I said he is a big mouth. I don't thin he has the right charactere.

Lot's of question marks for a top 5 pick. I don't follow College Ball that much to now exactly how goofd
this draft class is but in a good draft class even a top 10 pick could turn out as a loss.

I think he's regarded as a much better athlete than papa, but I understand the hesitation. I'm excited to see him come to the NBA, and I'm really looking forward to the globalization of the NBA over time.

As for Hayward and Thompson, he isn't close now. I agree. But neither were those guys. As prospects coming into the NBA, id say hezonja is the best. I also think it will be hard for him to reach that potential I talked about, a lot is dependent upon the situation a player comes into, not to mention the character concerns on top of that.

Lastly, I hope to god no one thinks he's an andrew wiggins athlete, not even close. Wiggins might be the best athlete in the NBA, he's insane even when he's not trying to be. I just think hezonja's a very good one.

[breakchains]

Good athlete but I'm usually wary of proclamations of athleticism when guys come from overseas. I remember when people talked about Exum like he was damn near Westbrook, when it was pretty clear that he was a good athlete versus his competition, but not a special one. IMO that applies to Hezonja too. Good athlete but not special. Looks to be about in the same tier as Dekker as an athlete.

Exum was playing against austrailian HSers and had a few age group international games. That's far different competition than playing for Barcelona.

My point remains, unless you are saying Hezonja is a special athlete. Focus on the point of the post instead of the obvious differences in the analogy.

[German Athens]

Good athlete but I'm usually wary of proclamations of athleticism when guys come from overseas. I remember when people talked about Exum like he was damn near Westbrook, when it was pretty clear that he was a good athlete versus his competition, but not a special one. IMO that applies to Hezonja too. Good athlete but not special. Looks to be about in the same tier as Dekker as an athlete.

I know I've said before that hezonja is the better athlete between himself and dekker. But I think I probably agree with you that him and dekker are on pretty much the same tier. People can nitpick I suppose, so ill not to do that too much. I see dekker and hezonja both as very good athletes and plus NBA athletes, but nothing elite or special. Both very good.

[mattg]

Good athlete but I'm usually wary of proclamations of athleticism when guys come from overseas. I remember when people talked about Exum like he was damn near Westbrook, when it was pretty clear that he was a good athlete versus his competition, but not a special one. IMO that applies to Hezonja too. Good athlete but not special. Looks to be about in the same tier as Dekker as an athlete.

Exum was playing against austrailian HSers and had a few age group international games. That's far different competition than playing for Barcelona.

My point remains, unless you are saying Hezonja is a special athlete. Focus on the point of the post instead of the obvious differences in the analogy.

No, and no one has ever been saying hezonja is a 'special' athlete. But he is above average for an nba wing and I'd definitely categorize him as a 'good' athlete. My point remains as well though, there is a major difference between not looking like a plus athlete against HS comp in Austrailia versus looking like a plus athlete in the 2nd best pro league in the World. We basically agree here.

In general though I think athleticism is relatively easy to project and determine in prospects. The big determinant in how successful guys are almost always comes down to skill level. Skill level is what allows guys to utilize their athleticism or compensate for areas they aren't suburb in. And skill level is the harder thing to project across different levels of competition.

[Bernman]

Good athlete but I'm usually wary of proclamations of athleticism when guys come from overseas. I remember when people talked about Exum like he was damn near Westbrook, when it was pretty clear that he was a good athlete versus his competition, but not a special one. IMO that applies to Hezonja too. Good athlete but not special. Looks to be about in the same tier as Dekker as an athlete.

You get it more than most here on the subject.

People are giving you problems for your Exum analogy, but what about Marco Belinelli? He played in Europe, was perceived as a pretty good athlete by most (myself included), then he came to the NBA. I probably would have fought people who argued he was a questionable athlete then, posting videos of him throwing down 2-handed 360's and oop dunks. And I would have been wrong.

It's just a different scale in the NBA or even big-time college. Major European play is better than big-time collegiate, but that's not due to athleticism surely. They are worse athletes, on average. But they are more skilled, smarter, and bigger on average.

You learn from these past mistakes to gain more knowledge. That's part of wisdom. Another part is knowing you still don't know on things that are so subjective like athleticism, outside of at least standouts in that category, when you don't have a translatable sample to work with. If I had as much hubris, I'd say somebody who thought otherwise was a lost cause, but I don't, so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt that they'll learn it with age.

[TroyD92]

I think Dekker is a top tier athlete. Not super elite like Wiggins and Westbrook, but he's up there.

[ersan7]

Sam Dekker = Chase Budinger

[Bernman]

You = Bucks' Board Troll

[mattg]

Good athlete but I'm usually wary of proclamations of athleticism when guys come from overseas. I remember when people talked about Exum like he was damn near Westbrook, when it was pretty clear that he was a good athlete versus his competition, but not a special one. IMO that applies to Hezonja too. Good athlete but not special. Looks to be about in the same tier as Dekker as an athlete.

You get it more than most here on the subject.

People are giving you problems for your Exum analogy, but what about Marco Belinelli? He played in Europe, was perceived as a pretty good athlete by most (myself included), then he came to the NBA. I probably would have fought people who argued he was a questionable athlete then, posting videos of him throwing down 2-handed 360's and oop dunks. And I would have been wrong.

It's just a different scale in the NBA or even big-time college. Major European play is better than big-time collegiate, but that's not due to athleticism surely. They are worse athletes, on average. But they are more skilled, smarter, and bigger on average.

You learn from these past mistakes to gain more knowledge. That's part of wisdom. Another part is knowing you still don't know on things that are so subjective like athleticism, outside of at least standouts in that category, when you don't have a translatable sample to work with. If I had as much hubris, I'd say somebody who thought otherwise was a lost cause, but I don't, so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt that they'll learn it with age.

This post is a bunch of gobbly de gook. We should trust your opinion that hezonja isn't a good athlete because you're wary of internationals because you've always been unable to watch guys yourself and make a proper determination of their athletic ability? You talk about learning from your past mistakes in prospect evaluation, yet you haven't here at all, all you've done is made a blanket determination that an international guy isn't athletic because past international guys you thought were special athletes weren't . No one has said hezonja is a good athlete because he does windmill dunks, they say it because of how he looks in game. You made ignorant statements and got called out on them and now you keep making irrelevant anecdotal comments about other players that have no bearing on hezonja.