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1st - Rashad Vaughn

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Re: 1st - Rashad Vaughn 

Post#681 » by RealBucksFan » Sun Jun 28, 2015 8:43 pm

HaroldinGMinor wrote:
RealBucksFan wrote:
HaroldinGMinor wrote:

6 is twice as much as 3. Is 6 games any more representative than 3 statistically?

I don't think you can glean much from his collegiate stats.


You can glean something, though, and a sample selected simply because it validates your conclusion is a bad sample. Yes, you can't say what Vaughn will become with any accuracy based on college stats, but college stats aren't completely meaningless. College stats from samples taken solely to make Vaugh look good are basically meaningless, however. The full season sample is not biased like the January sample is.



I didn't make a conclusion. I was stating that a 23 game sample is not much more relevant than a 9 game sample. I don't even know what he did in those 9 games. Someone else brought that up.


Yeah, I don't mean you made the biased sample. But that 23 game sample is most of what we have on Vaughn - that and his AAU games and his workouts. The 9 game sample is meaningless, because it was cherrypicked, but the 23 games was the most meaningful for what it is. It isn't enough to know how effective Vaughn will be, but it does basically tell us what his game is right now - volume scorer who can score in a lot of different ways both on and off the ball, but not that much else right now.
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Re: 1st - Rashad Vaughn 

Post#682 » by TroyD92 » Sun Jun 28, 2015 9:05 pm

RealBucksFan wrote:
HaroldinGMinor wrote:
RealBucksFan wrote:
You can glean something, though, and a sample selected simply because it validates your conclusion is a bad sample. Yes, you can't say what Vaughn will become with any accuracy based on college stats, but college stats aren't completely meaningless. College stats from samples taken solely to make Vaugh look good are basically meaningless, however. The full season sample is not biased like the January sample is.



I didn't make a conclusion. I was stating that a 23 game sample is not much more relevant than a 9 game sample. I don't even know what he did in those 9 games. Someone else brought that up.


Yeah, I don't mean you made the biased sample. But that 23 game sample is most of what we have on Vaughn - that and his AAU games and his workouts. The 9 game sample is meaningless, because it was cherrypicked, but the 23 games was the most meaningful for what it is. It isn't enough to know how effective Vaughn will be, but it does basically tell us what his game is right now - volume scorer who can score in a lot of different ways both on and off the ball, but not that much else right now.


a 9 game trend isn't cherry picked especially in a sample of 23 games.
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Re: 1st - Rashad Vaughn 

Post#683 » by Buckrageous » Sun Jun 28, 2015 9:14 pm

FWIW, the UNLV play by play guy was on the radio on Friday (either C&W or Heller). He said Vaughn had a bad case of the flu leading up the Coaches v Cancer and look and felt terrible before and at that tournament. Looking up the stats he shot 7-28 in those 2 games + the game before. I know that's only 3 games but when you are talking about a 23 game sample size it has significance.
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Re: 1st - Rashad Vaughn 

Post#684 » by RealBucksFan » Sun Jun 28, 2015 10:34 pm

TroyD92 wrote:
RealBucksFan wrote:
HaroldinGMinor wrote:

I didn't make a conclusion. I was stating that a 23 game sample is not much more relevant than a 9 game sample. I don't even know what he did in those 9 games. Someone else brought that up.


Yeah, I don't mean you made the biased sample. But that 23 game sample is most of what we have on Vaughn - that and his AAU games and his workouts. The 9 game sample is meaningless, because it was cherrypicked, but the 23 games was the most meaningful for what it is. It isn't enough to know how effective Vaughn will be, but it does basically tell us what his game is right now - volume scorer who can score in a lot of different ways both on and off the ball, but not that much else right now.


a 9 game trend isn't cherry picked especially in a sample of 23 games.


I'm pretty sure that sample was picked for no reason other than it was his best month. He was between 60% and 61% in November/December on FTs and struggled in his last couple games of the season.

I guess that shows that he was inconsistent and was capable of good highs, so it is a good sign Vaughn wasn't just a consistent 70% FT shooter the whole season. And I do expect a player with Vaughn's youth, shooting stroke and apparent shooting talent to improve as a FT shooter. And it is a good sign that he improved as he went on, as that is a sign that possibly his early struggles were the fluky results of getting acclimated to NCAA ball and getting comfortable on as big a stage.

But it still is bad to draw conclusions from a sample picked just because it validates what we want to see.

I should mention, I do think Vaughn is a more talented shooter than his FT% indicated. I think his ability to shoot off the dribble and his combination of high volume and efficiency from deep is a great sign that he is a talented shooter. And he has a very nice looking shooting stroke and he has the athleticism for his shooting to translate, so I am very optimistic about the pick.
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Re: 1st - Rashad Vaughn 

Post#685 » by BucksFanSD » Sun Jun 28, 2015 10:42 pm

Buckrageous wrote:FWIW, the UNLV play by play guy was on the radio on Friday (either C&W or Heller). He said Vaughn had a bad case of the flu leading up the Coaches v Cancer and look and felt terrible before and at that tournament. Looking up the stats he shot 7-28 in those 2 games + the game before. I know that's only 3 games but when you are talking about a 23 game sample size it has significance.


The two Coaches v Cancer games were the only two games Vaughn was held to single digits scoring. Vaughn appears to be a consistent scorer which is not easy to do as a freshman.
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Re: 1st - Rashad Vaughn 

Post#686 » by BucksFanSD » Sun Jun 28, 2015 10:54 pm

Such a sweet shot... Vaughn scores 30 against a good Colorado St. team.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91kw70H4WfM[/youtube]
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Re: 1st - Rashad Vaughn 

Post#687 » by craig » Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:29 pm

If Vaughn emerges as a terrific shooter, that will be helpful. His shooting form makes it seem possible, and the workout reports suggest he has really been able to shoot it well. Easier to be a good shooter in a workout than a good shooter against Bulls- and Cleveland-like defense.

Hammond knew the Bucks present and future core are short on shooters, and he thinks he might have gotten a good one in Vaughn. Who knows. But if it turns out that Hammond found a pure shooter, that will be a valuable thing. The pick is made, all we can do now is hope he'll really be able to take and make shots against NBA defenders.
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1st - Rashad Vaughn 

Post#688 » by Joyride15 » Mon Jun 29, 2015 1:01 am

Is it me or #2 on Colorado st. = Trey Jackson
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1st - Rashad Vaughn 

Post#689 » by Joyride15 » Mon Jun 29, 2015 1:53 am

Just leisurely watched the game, so didn't take any notes.... But for highs and lows:

9 min mark... Sweet oop to rashad. Like that athleticism

48:15 area.... Wow vision/decision making was terrible. Had his center matched up against a guard and proceeded to take a deep 3 that was well covered.

The ISO pull-ups were apparent this game. Knocks them down with very high efficiency.
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Re: Re: 1st - Rashad Vaughn 

Post#690 » by Bernman » Mon Jun 29, 2015 2:54 am

RealBucksFan wrote:On the other hand, imagine how terrible Jerian Grant's efficiency would have been if he maintained the usage Vaughn did. If he couldn't even be efficient on 20.6% usage as a redshirt freshman or on 23.8% usage as a redshirt sophomore, imagine how awfully inefficient he would have been on 30.8% usage as a true freshman. Especially since Jerian Grant played for one of the best offensive teams in college basketball that had great floor spacing and ball movement. He got a lot more open looks than Vaughn ever could have.

Vaughn had a higher TS% and a lower TO% than Grant had in either of his first two college seasons, despite Grant being older, having had more time with the program and playing for an offensive system that made everybody on the team look good. I suspect if Vaughn spent five years in Notre Dame, he would have been a much more dangerous scorer than Grant by the end of his time there.


Cause comes before the effect. Grant's tremendous display of vision and passing came before Notre Dame's 3-point shooters made the open shots he created for them. What exactly is so unusual about having 3 guys who can shoot on the floor? Duke had it. Everybody in Wisconsin's 7-man rotation could shoot.

And how was Grant much the beneficiary of this spacing as the point man for them? His efficiency suffered from it this year actually. An incredibly lower percentage of the outside shots he took were created for him. Hoop Math had 89% of Vaughn's 3's as assisted, 33% on 2 pt j's, and 28% at the rim. 40/36/26% of Grant's were. Look at that difference. Vaughn had WAY more open shots created for him actually. Grant was the least setup prospect this year.

When Grant was a junior his assisted %'es were 90/47/17, #'s actually much more similar to Vaughn's this year, he posted a ts% of 66, best of any prospect that year.

The previous years when his ts% was a little lower in a better conference than Vaughn's, on a lower usage, he was largely back to being the creator for others while they didn't return the favor. His assisted %'es were 54/36/26 as a soph, 66/48/29 as frosh. That explains the lower efficiency #'s, as does the stronger comp, and coming in physically less developed.

Grant's ts% actually projected to go up his first two seasons if he had somewhat higher usage because that would have meant not having such a high proportion of his shots come at the end of the shot clock to throw himself on that grenade for his teammates at his own expense. The consummate and aware team player, trying to adapt to what he perceives his team needs, not just having a narrow focus on getting his. Vaughn could learn a thing or two about it.
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1st - Rashad Vaughn 

Post#691 » by mke_design » Wed Jul 1, 2015 2:27 am

Does Vaughn compare well to Eric Gordon?
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Re: 1st - Rashad Vaughn 

Post#692 » by SOUL » Wed Jul 1, 2015 3:11 am

An avatar if anybody needs one and is a Vaughn fan:

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http://i.imgur.com/HzKk9lP.png
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Re: 1st - Rashad Vaughn 

Post#693 » by Buck Dweller » Wed Jul 1, 2015 3:22 am

SOUL wrote:An avatar if anybody needs one and is a Vaughn fan:

Image

http://i.imgur.com/HzKk9lP.png


These are cool, thank you for this. Wish they had them for all of our players
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Re: 1st - Rashad Vaughn 

Post#694 » by Douggystyle29 » Wed Jul 1, 2015 10:47 pm

I am really warming up to picking Vaughn. At first I was pissed because I didn't think we would have a chance to pick Portis and he was still there and we passed him up. Don't get me wrong, I wish we could have gotten Portis too but Vaughn should end up being a pretty solid player barring serious injury. The Vaszquez trade was horrible.
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Re: 1st - Rashad Vaughn 

Post#695 » by jakecronus8 » Thu Jul 2, 2015 12:03 am

Vaughn didn't make sense to me at the time, and now that it looks like we may strike out on big men, it really looks stupid with Portis sitting there.
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Re: 1st - Rashad Vaughn 

Post#696 » by engelmartin » Thu Jul 2, 2015 1:43 am

jakecronus8 wrote:Vaughn didn't make seense to me at the time, and now that it looks like we may strike out on big men, it really looks stupid with Portis sitting there.

It's cool man Michael Eric is always available.
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Re: 1st - Rashad Vaughn 

Post#697 » by Chuck Diesel » Thu Jul 2, 2015 6:05 am

Over/under 16 PPG for Vaughn at the Vegas summer league?
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Re: Re: 1st - Rashad Vaughn 

Post#698 » by bigbucksfan1234 » Thu Jul 2, 2015 6:22 am

Chuck Diesel wrote:Over/under 16 PPG for Vaughn at the Vegas summer league?


Over 17.5ppg
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Re: 1st - Rashad Vaughn 

Post#699 » by Dcebucks11 » Thu Jul 2, 2015 6:38 am

chucks his way to 20 ppg 35% FG.. :)

More excited to see Inglis even though he prob wont do anything special this summer league
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Re: 1st - Rashad Vaughn 

Post#700 » by bucksfansince88 » Thu Jul 2, 2015 12:19 pm

Chuck Diesel wrote:Over/under 16 PPG for Vaughn at the Vegas summer league?


over all day

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