Postgame: Wizards at Bucks

mrdressup · Post #181 » by **mrdressup** » Sat Oct 31, 2015 7:05 pm

Toronto fan here. Have looked in to see what you guys think of Vasquez ahead of our next meeting. He was hot garbage for us last year offensively; a real chemistry killer when on the floor together with Lou Williams. If you are looking for sound defense out of him you' re going to be discouraged I think. He reminded me of Calderon's pylon-esque abilities last year. He had a hard time keeping anyone in front of him. Getting his team mates involved was not his forte. About the only think he excelled at was needlessly killing off the clock, calling his own number and being a rabble rousing self indulgent hero when his shots fell (often ill-advised threes in rapid succession), which happened less and less the past few seasons. Getting him was probably a mistake for you guys unless you can straighten him out...sending a first round pick was probably not the smartest move. He was my least favorite player on our team by a mile. I would have easily accepted to let him walk and call it addition by subtraction with a solid two way back-up PG in his place. He's got a very strong ego too. Not sure how that will work with your players and fans if he can't back it up on the court. HAve read the comments in this thread and can already see the parallels with last year.

Ayt · Post #182 » by **Ayt** » Sat Oct 31, 2015 7:10 pm

Vasquez has been a disaster so far.

FrieAaron · Post #183 » by **FrieAaron** » Sat Oct 31, 2015 7:35 pm

paulpressey25 wrote:
Bucksmaniac wrote:I don't think even the most pessimistic person would have predicted Grievis Vasquez to be this bad through preseason and two games. I thought he'd be at least ok, I didn't think he'd be a complete ball stopper and run stopper.

Further, we had a lot of people thinking he could/should be our starter. He's just been a disaster. You guys can look up the advanced stats but the minute MCW goes out and Greivis comes in, our defense simply collapses.

Yeah I don't know how many times we need to see leads collapse when MCW goes out before people start suggesting playing either of those two before him. It's extremely common and was last year as well.

Another positive from last night is MCW had the sixth highest usage on the team after Chris Copeland.

FrieAaron · Post #184 » by **FrieAaron** » Sat Oct 31, 2015 7:35 pm

Ayt wrote:Vasquez has been a disaster so far.

Literally the only positive you can take away from that trade so far is his awfulness has been a unifying force on these boards.

smauss · Post #185 » by **smauss** » Sat Oct 31, 2015 7:42 pm

I haven't had the chance to post since last night, and it would appear you all have beat the snot out of Vasquez but I need to jump on as well. He's just a bad 1. I only saw last nights game so I'm not going to say he is a bad basketball player but after one game I can definitely tell he's a bad 1. He just doesn't see the floor well (I'm being kind) at all. I just kept screaming at my phone when he would just plain not see guys when they came open in a set. He doesn't run a team well, and he pounds the ball too much. I was also screaming at my phone at Kidd to get him and Plumlee out of the frickin' game at the end of the 3rd or the beginning of the 4th, when things starting to slip away and we lost the lead. Young teams are erratic enough without having a 1 that just doesn't do his job. Now I know our bench isn't always going to be this bad (when Henson & Mayo return) but WOW, they were REALLY bad last night.

ATLTimekeeper · Post #186 » by **ATLTimekeeper** » Sat Oct 31, 2015 8:13 pm

paulpressey25 wrote:
Bucksmaniac wrote:I don't think even the most pessimistic person would have predicted Grievis Vasquez to be this bad through preseason and two games. I thought he'd be at least ok, I didn't think he'd be a complete ball stopper and run stopper.

To me this is the only issue. Everything else is injury and development related that will work out. Vasquez on the other hand was a guy that was brought in to be a major minute guy in our top 8 rotation and we gave up a first and a second for him.

Further, we had a lot of people thinking he could/should be our starter. He's just been a disaster. You guys can look up the advanced stats but the minute MCW goes out and Greivis comes in, our defense simply collapses.

And while I'm rolling on this, I think it is a disservice to guys like Bayless or Steve Blake to compare the current level Greivis to them. I just hope Eastside is right and that he's an Ersan type player who took it easy in the offseason but will round into game shape over the next two weeks.

His two seasons here in Toronto he always took a looong time to get going. I know he's a divisive character because he's cocky and a bad athlete, but I would be surprised if he's not hitting daggers for the Bucks by mid-season. He's a professional with a lot of pride and he's had enough quality seasons that I'd consider him pretty reliable. The coaching staff here suggested that he was always one of the guys late in the gym getting shots up. Basically, I would give it at least a month before piling on the guy, because this was pretty much exactly what we got.

breakchains · Post #187 » by **breakchains** » Sat Oct 31, 2015 8:32 pm

I wouldn't be all that upset if we had just signed Vasquez outright. But to trade our 2nd this year and a late first is just a disaster. Said it then and it's seeming even more so now. Especially when you factor that we gave up similar type players in Zaza and Dudley for nothing.

Like I said earlier, the silver lining in this is that LED realize that Kidd is not cut out as a GM type and they dial back the absurd power they seem intent on giving him.

EastSideBucksFan · Post #188 » by **EastSideBucksFan** » Sat Oct 31, 2015 8:52 pm

mrdressup wrote:Toronto fan here. Have looked in to see what you guys think of Vasquez ahead of our next meeting. He was hot garbage for us last year offensively; a real chemistry killer when on the floor together with Lou Williams. If you are looking for sound defense out of him you' re going to be discouraged I think. He reminded me of Calderon's pylon-esque abilities last year. He had a hard time keeping anyone in front of him. Getting his team mates involved was not his forte. About the only think he excelled at was needlessly killing off the clock, calling his own number and being a rabble rousing self indulgent hero when his shots fell (often ill-advised threes in rapid succession), which happened less and less the past few seasons. Getting him was probably a mistake for you guys unless you can straighten him out...sending a first round pick was probably not the smartest move. He was my least favorite player on our team by a mile. I would have easily accepted to let him walk and call it addition by subtraction with a solid two way back-up PG in his place. He's got a very strong ego too. Not sure how that will work with your players and fans if he can't back it up on the court. HAve read the comments in this thread and can already see the parallels with last year.

H2tObes · Post #189 » by **H2tObes** » Sat Oct 31, 2015 9:07 pm

Vasquez is a total dud! Looks like we found our new Dudley!!! xD

FrieAaron · Post #190 » by **FrieAaron** » Sat Oct 31, 2015 9:09 pm

ATLTimekeeper wrote:His two seasons here in Toronto he always took a looong time to get going. I know he's a divisive character because he's cocky and a bad athlete, but I would be surprised if he's not hitting daggers for the Bucks by mid-season. He's a professional with a lot of pride and he's had enough quality seasons that I'd consider him pretty reliable. The coaching staff here suggested that he was always one of the guys late in the gym getting shots up. Basically, I would give it at least a month before piling on the guy, because this was pretty much exactly what we got.

This is what I was hoping for as well. If he can be someone who every few games is giving us scoring off the bench, then it will be fine. I don't think anyone here is going to be against the guy the rest of his career because of these first two games, it's just that so far this is all we've seen and we're, uh...not fans yet.

FrieAaron · Post #191 » by **FrieAaron** » Sat Oct 31, 2015 9:10 pm

H2tObes wrote:Vasquez is a total dud! Looks like we found our new Dudley!!! xD

Dudley Do-WRONG, am I right? Eh? Eh?

worthlessBucks · Post #192 » by **worthlessBucks** » Sat Oct 31, 2015 9:23 pm

paulpressey25 wrote:BTW--Monroe averaging 22/9.5 on 55% shooting through two games.

Very pleased with him. His defense is what we've expected, but we're certainly getting our money's worth offensively and on the glass.

I'll stand up for Vasquez a wee bit too. Obviously nobody wanted to trade for him with the package/cap space we used to do so, but he can be useful player. I'm willing to give him time since I've been a fan of his game dating back to Maryland. Just need him to be a steady presence that can hit 3's. I'm not a fan of putting him on the court with Bayless, but when OJ is back that might help the 2nd unit.

Post #193 » by **paulpressey25** » Sat Oct 31, 2015 9:28 pm

There was a funny moment last night in the 4th when Kidd had Greivis, MCW and Bayless all in the game at the same time. He had Vasquez guarding Dudley because that was the only guy who couldn't outrun Greivis. Sessions and everyone else had completely lit him up.

So after a rebound Greivis has the ball and starts up-court with it. MCW calls over to him for the pass as in "I'm the PG, you are the SF, so get me the rock". Greivis looks him off and races past MCW with the ball. MCW then motions his hands in disgust behind Greivis.

Vasquez is going to cause internal problems on that team if he can't fall in line with the offensive and defensive schemes.

Post #194 » by **paulpressey25** » Sat Oct 31, 2015 9:29 pm

worthlessBucks wrote:Very pleased with him. His defense is what we've expected, but we're certainly getting our money's worth offensively and on the glass.

Monroe is our new Michael Redd. He's going to have amazing offensive stats. The question is can we put enough better players and scheme around him to have his skills be a major net plus.

FrieAaron · Post #195 » by **FrieAaron** » Sat Oct 31, 2015 9:38 pm

paulpressey25 wrote:There was a funny moment last night in the 4th when Kidd had Greivis, MCW and Bayless all in the game at the same time. He had Vasquez guarding Dudley because that was the only guy who couldn't outrun Greivis. Sessions and everyone else had completely lit him up.

So after a rebound Greivis has the ball and starts up-court with it. MCW calls over to him for the pass as in "I'm the PG, you are the SF, so get me the rock". Greivis looks him off and races past MCW with the ball. MCW then motions his hands in disgust behind Greivis.

Vasquez is going to cause internal problems on that team if he can't fall in line with the offensive and defensive schemes.

I think I remember this play. Didn't he just drive into the lane without passing it after dribbling aroun
Edit: Yep, I believe the second video from the Washington game here is what you were referring to.d some?

FrieAaron · Post #196 » by **FrieAaron** » Sat Oct 31, 2015 9:38 pm

paulpressey25 wrote:
worthlessBucks wrote:Very pleased with him. His defense is what we've expected, but we're certainly getting our money's worth offensively and on the glass.

Monroe is our new Michael Redd. He's going to have amazing offensive stats. The question is can we put enough better players and scheme around him to have his skills be a major net plus.

I think he's already been a net plus, which is great because his defense will only get better I imagine (at least slightly).

Siefer · Post #197 » by **Siefer** » Sat Oct 31, 2015 10:00 pm

Monroe looks good, Giannis looks great, not worried about Middleton, and MCW is doing that MCW thing where he shows a ton of potential and a ton of derp. We've gotten killed because we've had to give big minutes to guys like Copeland, Bayless, and Vasquez. I'm still holding out hope for Vasquez to be a solid rotation piece, but none of those guys figure into the long run.

Post #198 » by **paulpressey25** » Sat Oct 31, 2015 10:03 pm

FrieAaron wrote:I think I remember this play.

This was not the play I was thinking. This one was last night against the Wizards around the start of the 4th.

M-C-G · Post #199 » by **M-C-G** » Sat Oct 31, 2015 10:11 pm

paulpressey25 wrote:There was a funny moment last night in the 4th when Kidd had Greivis, MCW and Bayless all in the game at the same time. He had Vasquez guarding Dudley because that was the only guy who couldn't outrun Greivis. Sessions and everyone else had completely lit him up.

So after a rebound Greivis has the ball and starts up-court with it. MCW calls over to him for the pass as in "I'm the PG, you are the SF, so get me the rock". Greivis looks him off and races past MCW with the ball. MCW then motions his hands in disgust behind Greivis.

Vasquez is going to cause internal problems on that team if he can't fall in line with the offensive and defensive schemes.

Through two games I would guess that there have been about 20 inbounds after a basket where the inbounder was set to throw it to one of the two or three "PG" in the game, only for that "PG" to point to the other "PG"....The inbound from Plumlee that hit off Bayless butt was one where he tried to inbound to Vasquez and right before he passed it in, Vasquez shouts out and points to Bayless, at which point we turned it over.

I'm sure there is a reason for why we need to get it to a specific guy, but christ, no need to make a science experiment.

trwi7 · Post #200 » by **trwi7** » Sat Oct 31, 2015 10:31 pm

paulpressey25 wrote:He had Vasquez guarding Dudley because that was the only guy who couldn't outrun Greivis.

Greivis looks him off and races past MCW with the ball.

These two parts made me laugh.