What's wrong with the Bucks?

[AussieBuck]

That would put him around 66th of 71 qualifying PGs. That obviously isn't remotely reasonable to expect.

Why not? That's probably near his talent level on offense.

Nah. At worst he's around 30th.

Can't see it. Plus he needs a bunch of clock to get his shots up, just about everyone else can just shoot an open jumper.

[ReasonablySober]

Why not? That's probably near his talent level on offense.

Nah. At worst he's around 30th.

Can't see it. Plus he needs a bunch of clock to get his shots up, just about everyone else can just shoot an open jumper.

Similar players of his offensive caliber and their Usg:

Aaron Brooks - 24.2
Monta Ellis - 22.0
Jrue Holiday - 27.7
Rodney Stuckey - 22.0
Deangello Russell - 20.2

[DingleJerry]

[/quote]
You mean someone like Danny Green who took a "discount" to resign with the Spurs (i.e. 4yrs/$40MM). And extending Henson to a front loaded 4yrs/$44MM contract which doesn't kick in until next season is not the same as signing Knight and Middleton for 5yrs/$70M a piece this off season. So the better question would be, would you prefer having Monroe and MCW or Knight?[/quote]

Or what about Knight instead of Henson? I know his contract is more but if you ordered things the right way you could have Monroe, Middleton, Knight. Of course that would be a better team right now but I think this would lead to a bit of a ceiling on your team and limit their salary flex down the road. The trading of Knight was a move to keep flex in the future, turned out their first use of that flex in MCW is likely not going to pan out but the next one could. If you had to go back I think you'd go this route though, Knight would be a better asset to have now than MCW.

Don't need to rehash the LAL pick again but that would probably be the best thing right now, but I don't blame them because it was sound logic from them to think the Lakers would sign a FA or two making that pick at best a low lottery pick.

[AussieBuck]

I guess there are a bunch of other guys who shoot too much too? Plus some guys have roles as off the bench gunners.

[ReasonablySober]

You mean someone like Danny Green who took a "discount" to resign with the Spurs (i.e. 4yrs/$40MM). And extending Henson to a front loaded 4yrs/$44MM contract which doesn't kick in until next season is not the same as signing Knight and Middleton for 5yrs/$70M a piece this off season. So the better question would be, would you prefer having Monroe and MCW or Knight?[/quote]

Or what about Knight instead of Henson? I know his contract is more but if you ordered things the right way you could have Monroe, Middleton, Knight. Of course that would be a better team right now but I think this would lead to a bit of a ceiling on your team and limit their salary flex down the road. The trading of Knight was a move to keep flex in the future, turned out their first use of that flex in MCW is likely not going to pan out but the next one could. If you had to go back I think you'd go this route though, Knight would be a better asset to have now than MCW.

Don't need to rehash the LAL pick again but that would probably be the best thing right now, but I don't blame them because it was sound logic from them to think the Lakers would sign a FA or two making that pick at best a low lottery pick.[/quote]

Kidd specifically said he didn't want to max out the backcourt and that's why they traded Knight. They (rightly) chose Middleton. A big money backcourt wasn't going to happen.

[ReasonablySober]

I guess there are a bunch of other guys who shoot too much too? Plus some guys have roles as off the bench gunners.

Yup.

[chonestown]

I just feel like this has to be a part of the "What's wrong" equation. The Bucks are playing SLOW. They are the only team playing slower than last season in the NBA.

It's nuts that we are the only slower team. Why we are slow comes back to both rebounding and D. Worst DREB% in the league and last in D rating = taking ball out of basket.

In addition, this team is populated with guys who slow ball movement: MCW, Monroe, Giannis and Grievance share this trait to varying degrees.

[bdpecore]

Or what about Knight instead of Henson? I know his contract is more but if you ordered things the right way you could have Monroe, Middleton, Knight. Of course that would be a better team right now but I think this would lead to a bit of a ceiling on your team and limit their salary flex down the road. The trading of Knight was a move to keep flex in the future, turned out their first use of that flex in MCW is likely not going to pan out but the next one could. If you had to go back I think you'd go this route though, Knight would be a better asset to have now than MCW.

Don't need to rehash the LAL pick again but that would probably be the best thing right now, but I don't blame them because it was sound logic from them to think the Lakers would sign a FA or two making that pick at best a low lottery pick.

I would rather have the flexibility since it will be needed to extend Giannis and Parker along with retooling the bench.

[DingleJerry]

I agree and that's why they did it. Therefor a worse team this season but an attempt to #ownthefuture. Don't see logic of then giving up a 1st rd pick for one year of Vasquez but that's neither here nor there.

Though you could still trade Knight down the line if you had kept him and get the flex back. With the return on MCW so far that would be better at this point but I don't blame them for trying this. Just can't believe he hasn't improved his shooting at all in the offseason with how much they told us he worked and did improve it

[Baddy Chuck]

Similar players of his offensive caliber and their Usg:

Aaron Brooks - 24.2
Monta Ellis - 22.0
Jrue Holiday - 27.7
Rodney Stuckey - 22.0
Deangello Russell - 20.2

This list is hilarious and a little bit sad.

[Shaffty]

Actually, last season we played well to start the season and struggled towards the end.

Actually we started out like 22-22 until we finally rattled off a bunch of wins in a row because our bench played like the best in the league for a month.

Dudley shot like 60% from three taking 5 a game during that 12-2 stretch

[Ron Swanson]

Eh, if he can just slightly improve the AST/TO ratio, MCW's numbers right now are actually right where we had hoped for them to be in accordance with his long term role (14/4/6/1.6/1 45% Fg, 33% 3PT).

How many starting PGs are there even in the league that have a usage rate around 15? I'm guessing none.

[randy84]

in the 7 games Knight has lost this season his avgs are 17.6pts 4.9ast 4.9to .370%/.308%/.920% woof

you could post that for any young player. what does it prove?

more importantly, the suns, who everybody wrote off after the deadline and offseason, are still competitive with knight in the dragic role. sure hes inconsistent..... that team is in flux and plays in a way where everybody will be. overall his numbers are strong...... and in wins for comparison he is averaging 25.3pts 5.9ast 5.0reb .508%/.490%/.800%...... numbers that if middleton were averaging for ANY split whatsoever the whole board would be nutting their pants and toasting themselves for how smart we were for suggesting he get locked up.

we traded knight for a guy who cant carry his water in order to save money. then we locked up middleton and Henson long term for similar contracts to what he demanded. in my book we **** up. we should have kept a cheap 3/d guard to pair next to knight and gone to war with that, parker, Giannis, and Monroe for a decade. oh well

You mean someone like Danny Green who took a "discount" to resign with the Spurs (i.e. 4yrs/$40MM). And extending Henson to a front loaded 4yrs/$44MM contract which doesn't kick in until next season is not the same as signing Knight and Middleton for 5yrs/$70M a piece this off season. So the better question would be, would you prefer having Monroe and MCW or Knight?

Hmm. Lets me see

G.Vasquez...$6.6 million
J.Henson...$2.9 million
MCW......$2.4 million
M. Plumlee...$2.1 million
T. Ennis....$1.6 million

Total = $15.6 million. That's more than what Knight got.

So we still could've had Monroe, Jabari, Giannis, Middleton and Knight. Who would've thunk it?

[randy84]

You mean someone like Danny Green who took a "discount" to resign with the Spurs (i.e. 4yrs/$40MM). And extending Henson to a front loaded 4yrs/$44MM contract which doesn't kick in until next season is not the same as signing Knight and Middleton for 5yrs/$70M a piece this off season. So the better question would be, would you prefer having Monroe and MCW or Knight?

[/quote]Or what about Knight instead of Henson? I know his contract is more but if you ordered things the right way you could have Monroe, Middleton, Knight. Of course that would be a better team right now but I think this would lead to a bit of a ceiling on your team and limit their salary flex down the road. The trading of Knight was a move to keep flex in the future, turned out their first use of that flex in MCW is likely not going to pan out but the next one could. If you had to go back I think you'd go this route though, Knight would be a better asset to have now than MCW.

Don't need to rehash the LAL pick again but that would probably be the best thing right now, but I don't blame them because it was sound logic from them to think the Lakers would sign a FA or two making that pick at best a low lottery pick.[/quote]

Kidd specifically said he didn't want to max out the backcourt and that's why they traded Knight. They (rightly) chose Middleton. A big money backcourt wasn't going to happen.[/quote]

Instead Kidd chose to go with big money at the center position for a starter and backup. Genius use of money.

[Baddy Chuck]

How many starting PGs are there even in the league that have a usage rate around 15? I'm guessing none.

Pretty much the garbage tier starting point guards like Neto, Calderon, McConnell and (sorry nowak) Smart. I'm not so sure MCW really sets himself apart from this pack offensively. Hell, even guys like Rubio, Rondo and Dragic are under 20% compared to MCW's 23.4.

[AussieBuck]

Livingston Watson, Delly, Temple, Hill, Augustin are in that 12-18 range. That's where he needs to be.

[Shaffty]

How many starting PGs are there even in the league that have a usage rate around 15? I'm guessing none.

Pretty much the garbage tier starting point guards like Neto, Calderon, McConnell and (sorry nowak) Smart. I'm not so sure MCW really sets himself apart from this pack offensively. Hell, even guys like Rubio, Rondo and Dragic are under 20% compared to MCW's 23.4.

MCW's usage is super inflated from the Knicks game if you take that out (where he usage was 33!!!) Its only 20 if you remove that game with no Giannis or Jabari

[Baddy Chuck]

How many starting PGs are there even in the league that have a usage rate around 15? I'm guessing none.

Pretty much the garbage tier starting point guards like Neto, Calderon, McConnell and (sorry nowak) Smart. I'm not so sure MCW really sets himself apart from this pack offensively. Hell, even guys like Rubio, Rondo and Dragic are under 20% compared to MCW's 23.4.

MCW's usage is super inflated from the Knicks game if you take that out (where he usage was 33!!!) Its only 20 if you remove that game with no Giannis or Jabari

If you take that game out his usage is 22%, still ridiculously too high.

[Shaffty]

Pretty much the garbage tier starting point guards like Neto, Calderon, McConnell and (sorry nowak) Smart. I'm not so sure MCW really sets himself apart from this pack offensively. Hell, even guys like Rubio, Rondo and Dragic are under 20% compared to MCW's 23.4.

MCW's usage is super inflated from the Knicks game if you take that out (where he usage was 33!!!) Its only 20 if you remove that game with no Giannis or Jabari

If you take that game out his usage is 22%, still ridiculously too high.

I agree and I think the team agrees as well, its tough to take any of these stats that take averages seriously this early, when 1 game moves it an entire point

[AussieBuck]

Jabari's a scorer all the way, he'll be leading USG% soon enough. We'll soon see who's going to lose shots to him. IIRC when I last checked into it about 106 was the average usage for a starting unit which allows for a standard amount of staggering. Needs pretty much a swap of MCW and Jabari's shots. I'm more interested in getting more time on ball for Giannis/Jabari. Want to see both guys together on both ends of the pick and roll.