The Bucks are a Big **** Joke (Deadspin Article)

[paulpressey25]

1 - Can you construct a defense that minimizes Monroe's physical limitations and takes advantage of his rebounding? If you read the above link the answer is yes. Just don't treat Monroe like John Henson. If the defense gets fixed (to some degree), you can talk about the second issue:

2 - How best do you take advantage of Monroe on offense? He's getting double teamed and while he's a gifted passer, the Bucks are mostly sitting around, watching when he gets the ball. Whose fault is that?

I can't argue with there being a coaching issue here. On offense I personally want him in the high post to use his passing skills and forcing him to sink or swim with a 10-15 foot jump shot. That opens things up for the other guys and takes advantage of Monroe's passing.

The defensive thing is harder though because no matter what scheme you play, it was sort of inexcusable to watch him stand around 3 feet to the left or right of the hoop the other night and let the Bulls drive in for dunks and layups uncontested. He wasn't out on the perimeter doubling in those instances, he's just either lazy or physically incapable of sliding a foot or two over to make the guy go through him to score.

[ReddRum]

Only 3 games out of the 3rd worst record in the NBA! Let's do this!!

[mattg]

You could potentially hide Monroe on the defensive end if Parker was a better defender. But having two below average defenders at PF and C just magnifies the issue.

Or you could play Parker at his natural SF position, aka the one he played his entire life and what made him such a great prospect in the first place. Or we could keep trying to make him a big man for no reason when it's obvious his game is not suited for it and he's a weak defender at PF. With Parker at least there is options. Monroe has been tried at PF and he can't play there whatsoever. He was played next to a shot blocking rebounder and the result was not good, now he's played at his natural center spot and the result is still not good because he isn't good at the most important things you need a center to be good at. Monroe pigeon holes the roster into being built a certain way because he has to play center and he doesn't provide the things you need a center to provide. And the things monroe does provide can be easily gotten from other spots and players.

[Badgerlander]

How about the Boozer Bulls teams, 62 wins their first year with him as a starting Center, then 50 (out of 66 strike shortened) the next year

[EastSideBucksFan]

1 - Can you construct a defense that minimizes Monroe's physical limitations and takes advantage of his rebounding? If you read the above link the answer is yes. Just don't treat Monroe like John Henson. If the defense gets fixed (to some degree), you can talk about the second issue:

2 - How best do you take advantage of Monroe on offense? He's getting double teamed and while he's a gifted passer, the Bucks are mostly sitting around, watching when he gets the ball. Whose fault is that?

I can't argue with there being a coaching issue here. On offense I personally want him in the high post to use his passing skills and forcing him to sink or swim with a 10-15 foot jump shot. That opens things up for the other guys and takes advantage of Monroe's passing.

The defensive thing is harder though because no matter what scheme you play, it was sort of inexcusable to watch him stand around 3 feet to the left or right of the hoop the other night and let the Bulls drive in for dunks and layups uncontested. He wasn't out on the perimeter doubling in those instances, he's just either lazy or physically incapable of sliding a foot or two over to make the guy go through him to score.

All we heard about in the offseason was how Monroe was going to replace Zaza in the offense at the high post.

But, I don't think we see it more because Monroe doesn't have IQ, quick reaction, passing skills required to do this and too often hangs on to the ball for too long and ends up making a bad pass or gets stripped from the weak side.

[ReasonablySober]

1 - Can you construct a defense that minimizes Monroe's physical limitations and takes advantage of his rebounding? If you read the above link the answer is yes. Just don't treat Monroe like John Henson. If the defense gets fixed (to some degree), you can talk about the second issue:

2 - How best do you take advantage of Monroe on offense? He's getting double teamed and while he's a gifted passer, the Bucks are mostly sitting around, watching when he gets the ball. Whose fault is that?

I can't argue with there being a coaching issue here. On offense I personally want him in the high post to use his passing skills and forcing him to sink or swim with a 10-15 foot jump shot. That opens things up for the other guys and takes advantage of Monroe's passing.

The defensive thing is harder though because no matter what scheme you play, it was sort of inexcusable to watch him stand around 3 feet to the left or right of the hoop the other night and let the Bulls drive in for dunks and layups uncontested. He wasn't out on the perimeter doubling in those instances, he's just either lazy or physically incapable of sliding a foot or two over to make the guy go through him to score.

All we heard about in the offseason was how Monroe was going to replace Zaza in the offense at the high post.

But, I don't think we see it more because Monroe doesn't have IQ, quick reaction, passing skills required to do this and too often hangs on to the ball for too long and [bends up making a bad pass or gets stripped from the weak side.[/b]

He's literally got one of the best TO% marks in the league for a center.

[bdpecore]

You could potentially hide Monroe on the defensive end if Parker was a better defender. But having two below average defenders at PF and C just magnifies the issue.

Or you could play Parker at his natural SF position, aka the one he played his entire life and what made him such a great prospect in the first place. Or we could keep trying to make him a big man for no reason when it's obvious his game is not suited for it and he's a weak defender at PF. With Parker at least there is options. Monroe has been tried at PF and he can't play there whatsoever. He was played next to a shot blocking rebounder and the result was not good, now he's played at his natural center spot and the result is still not good because he isn't good at the most important things you need a center to be good at. Monroe pigeon holes the roster into being built a certain way because he has to play center and he doesn't provide the things you need a center to provide. And the things monroe does provide can be easily gotten from other spots and players.

Did you watch the Bulls game when he was assigned to guard Butler. He is a bad defender no matter the position. He will more than likely always be a below average defender which most of us can live with if he can become a top 10 scorer in the league. As for Monroe, his biggest issue is coming out of the paint to defend the pick and roll. He can hold his own in the paint versus most C in the league but struggles when forced to move away from the basket.

[mattg]

You could potentially hide Monroe on the defensive end if Parker was a better defender. But having two below average defenders at PF and C just magnifies the issue.

Or you could play Parker at his natural SF position, aka the one he played his entire life and what made him such a great prospect in the first place. Or we could keep trying to make him a big man for no reason when it's obvious his game is not suited for it and he's a weak defender at PF. With Parker at least there is options. Monroe has been tried at PF and he can't play there whatsoever. He was played next to a shot blocking rebounder and the result was not good, now he's played at his natural center spot and the result is still not good because he isn't good at the most important things you need a center to be good at. Monroe pigeon holes the roster into being built a certain way because he has to play center and he doesn't provide the things you need a center to provide. And the things monroe does provide can be easily gotten from other spots and players.

Did you watch the Bulls game when he was assigned to guard Butler. He is a bad defender no matter the position. He will more than likely always be a below average defender which most of us can live with if he can become a top 10 scorer in the league. As for Monroe, his biggest issue is coming out of the paint to defend the pick and roll. He can hold his own in the paint versus most C in the league but struggles when forced to move away from the basket.

Did you watch Middleton be completely unable to guard butler too? The issue is there is no help defense. Jabari is not good as a big man defender and Monroe is too slow to rotate into proper position. It's not even the lack of shot locking that's an issue so much as that he is always late and can't properly contest or take away space.

And Parker is not a good defender, but he definitely has the ability to be average on the perimeter. And defense from that spot is not nearly as important as it is for interior players.

As for Monroe being fine 1v1 in the post, honestly that couldn't be less important. If you're a big and you can't play in space defensively you just will get repeatedly put in a position where you're forced to play in space. Doesn't matter if he's guarding a no range center, a guard can just take advantage of Monroe in a PnR by either getting a wide open J if Monroe sits back, or if he doesn't can just go right by because he has cement shoes.

[ReasonablySober]

Or you could play Parker at his natural SF position, aka the one he played his entire life and what made him such a great prospect in the first place. Or we could keep trying to make him a big man for no reason when it's obvious his game is not suited for it and he's a weak defender at PF. With Parker at least there is options. Monroe has been tried at PF and he can't play there whatsoever. He was played next to a shot blocking rebounder and the result was not good, now he's played at his natural center spot and the result is still not good because he isn't good at the most important things you need a center to be good at. Monroe pigeon holes the roster into being built a certain way because he has to play center and he doesn't provide the things you need a center to provide. And the things monroe does provide can be easily gotten from other spots and players.

Did you watch the Bulls game when he was assigned to guard Butler. He is a bad defender no matter the position. He will more than likely always be a below average defender which most of us can live with if he can become a top 10 scorer in the league. As for Monroe, his biggest issue is coming out of the paint to defend the pick and roll. He can hold his own in the paint versus most C in the league but struggles when forced to move away from the basket.

Did you watch Middleton be completely unable to guard butler too? The issue is there is no help defense. Jabari is not good as a big man defender and Monroe is too slow to rotate into proper position. It's not even the lack of shot locking that's an issue so much as that he is always late and can't properly contest or take away space.

And Parker is not a good defender, but he definitely has the ability to be average on the perimeter. And defense from that spot is not nearly as important as it is for interior players.

As for Monroe being fine 1v1 in the post, honestly that couldn't be less important. If you're a big and you can't play in space defensively you just will get repeatedly put in a position where you're forced to play in space. Doesn't matter if he's guarding a no range center, a guard can just take advantage of Monroe in a PnR by either getting a wide open J if Monroe sits back, or if he doesn't can just go right by because he has cement shoes.

Generally want you're hoping for in a PnR is for that guard to pull up and shoot. It's a much better option than the guard getting to the hoop or passing to a wide open roll man.

[Prez]

You could potentially hide Monroe on the defensive end if Parker was a better defender. But having two below average defenders at PF and C just magnifies the issue.

Or you could play Parker at his natural SF position, aka the one he played his entire life and what made him such a great prospect in the first place. Or we could keep trying to make him a big man for no reason when it's obvious his game is not suited for it and he's a weak defender at PF. With Parker at least there is options. Monroe has been tried at PF and he can't play there whatsoever. He was played next to a shot blocking rebounder and the result was not good, now he's played at his natural center spot and the result is still not good because he isn't good at the most important things you need a center to be good at. Monroe pigeon holes the roster into being built a certain way because he has to play center and he doesn't provide the things you need a center to provide. And the things monroe does provide can be easily gotten from other spots and players.

Pretty much this. Jabari isn't a true big man and we need to stop bulking him up to be one. He needs to drop 15 or so pounds, get back to SF where he at least has the potential to be passable or hidden defensively. As Giannis gets stronger he'll be capable of guarding pretty much all 4s, and his length can alter shots in the paint.

[Lippo]

We all hope Jabari turns out to be a less selfish version of Carmello, didn't he play better ball at the 4 than at the 3?

[ackypoo]

carmelo is a better 4 than 3. although probably not as much as it used to be because people are playing smaller at the 4 every day.

playing jabari the 3 is nuts. he has no lateral quickness. not sure who you expect him to guard on the wing, but he is going to get blown by.

[Lippo]

Yeah agreed, Keep JP at the 4
'
put Giannis at the 5, He's as strong as Larry was
unless we are playing Det or Sac, hell do fine.

[DingleJerry]

Giannis at the 5 and JP at the 4 will likely be terrible on rebounding and likely not good on D either. Might have to face the fact they're both suited to be 4s and they greatly overlap each other (although the crux of the problem is Jabari can't guard either spot, nothing to do with Giannis really). If both learn to shoot then you can live with it and mix and match on D to have Giannis guard the best player on the other team and try to hide Jabari on the other. Give it a couple more years and see how it all fits if/when they learn to shoot, if they never do learn to shoot, you're effed anyway.

[paulpressey25]

Let me bring up a related topic to team performance that no one has brought up yet (I don't think).

Passing within the post.

This current year Bucks team is the single worst short-range/post passing team I've ever seen.

When any of our players with the ball actually enter the colored post box, I want them to shoot it. No matter what shoot it themselves. Just don't try to make a pass to your teammate and complicate things with a turnover.

But instead a lot of our guys try to make a 2-5 foot pass to a guy even further under the basket. Since we've clogged the lane with Monroe and other slashers there is no room and the recipient of the pass frequently has to try and dig the ball out of the scrum on the floor.

MCW is the worst offender as we all see him every game do that short point blank bounce pass into the post that always gets intercepted or stolen, but I've seen all our other guys make these crappy point blank passes down there as well.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

assuming our defensive scheme from last year isn't a gimmick that was gonna eventually fail no matter what..... I still don't want a defense that's so heavily predicated on just the right perfect blend of personnel that if we don't get it perfectly right we go to the worst defense in the league. the whole notion seems dumb.

now... middleton and giianis are going to be good defenders no matter what. Monroe too if we keep him near the basket on a big guy like other teams centers do. find a few more decent guys. play a straight up no cheat system mostly trying to take away the 3 ball and wide open layup..... and go play ball. basically quit being cute and smoke the best guys you got if when you got em.

This is a difficult concept to apply since you are asking our perimeter defenders to play their opponents tight with no rim protector to help them out when their defender gets but them. We need a C who is physical and can play above the rim which allows the other defenders to be more aggressive and take some additional chances.

teams all thru the league play decent defense without a prototypical rim protecting center. we can do it too.

[bdpecore]

assuming our defensive scheme from last year isn't a gimmick that was gonna eventually fail no matter what..... I still don't want a defense that's so heavily predicated on just the right perfect blend of personnel that if we don't get it perfectly right we go to the worst defense in the league. the whole notion seems dumb.

now... middleton and giianis are going to be good defenders no matter what. Monroe too if we keep him near the basket on a big guy like other teams centers do. find a few more decent guys. play a straight up no cheat system mostly trying to take away the 3 ball and wide open layup..... and go play ball. basically quit being cute and smoke the best guys you got if when you got em.

This is a difficult concept to apply since you are asking our perimeter defenders to play their opponents tight with no rim protector to help them out when their defender gets but them. We need a C who is physical and can play above the rim which allows the other defenders to be more aggressive and take some additional chances.

teams all thru the league play decent defense without a prototypical rim protecting center. we can do it too.

What teams are you specifically referring to?

[Badgerlander]

Let me bring up a related topic to team performance that no one has brought up yet (I don't think).

Passing within the post.

This current year Bucks team is the single worst short-range/post passing team I've ever seen.

When any of our players with the ball actually enter the colored post box, I want them to shoot it. No matter what shoot it themselves. Just don't try to make a pass to your teammate and complicate things with a turnover.

But instead a lot of our guys try to make a 2-5 foot pass to a guy even further under the basket. Since we've clogged the lane with Monroe and other slashers there is no room and the recipient of the pass frequently has to try and dig the ball out of the scrum on the floor.

MCW is the worst offender as we all see him every game do that short point blank bounce pass into the post that always gets intercepted or stolen, but I've seen all our other guys make these crappy point blank passes down there as well.

Cutters have been one of my fav things to watch lately

[ackypoo]

Giannis at the 5 and JP at the 4 will likely be terrible on rebounding and likely not good on D either. Might have to face the fact they're both suited to be 4s and they greatly overlap each other (although the crux of the problem is Jabari can't guard either spot, nothing to do with Giannis really). If both learn to shoot then you can live with it and mix and match on D to have Giannis guard the best player on the other team and try to hide Jabari on the other. Give it a couple more years and see how it all fits if/when they learn to shoot, if they never do learn to shoot, you're effed anyway.

why dont you think giannis at C and jp at 5 be terrible at rebounding and defense?

theyre both decent rebounders to the eye, and giannis moves his feet on d for help. any situation involving jabari playing defense isnt going to be ideal, but hes going to have to be on the court.

[paulpressey25]

Cutters have been one of my fav things to watch lately

They only do highlights of the passes that work. These next few games I may start counting the botched ones, which are many.