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PG Thread (Sixers) - Can't stop the Sixers tank

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Re: PG Thread (Sixers) - Can't stop the Sixers tank 

Post#101 » by Ron Swanson » Mon Apr 11, 2016 3:08 am

emunney wrote:I just can't **** on Kidd for this too bad. For one, the 6ers are utterly terrible. Tanking teams have been beating them all year. For another, for all of pre-Hinkie history, tanking meant sitting your good vets and rolling with the youth. Well our youth is pretty good. They're better than the 6ers, at least.

What you guys are asking for is a much bigger ask than you seem to think it is. It is ok to put guys in tough spots, to give Giannis the green light to shoot all the 3s he wants, to trot out weird lineups and give Vaughn and JOB opportunities, but it is different to sit totally healthy 21 year olds so that you can ensure a loss against the worst team in the league. Acting like what Kidd is doing is stupid beyond precedent ignores what the precedent actually is, which is basically everything that Kidd has done: sit guys with mild injuries, give the keys to the team to the guys with the most long term promise. Again, this is every late season tank in history before Hinkie came along. You never lose every game.


I somewhat agree with you. But what gets me is that we still trotted out Middleton for 40+ minutes on the first night of a back-to-back when we all thought that he'd (and he should have) be shut down for the rest of the year with the convenient "thigh bruise". I felt that all of Kidd's lineup changes and distribution of minutes was defensible up to this point, but the Middleton thing is just confusing. I don't get why you do that this late in the year.
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Re: PG Thread (Sixers) - Can't stop the Sixers tank 

Post#102 » by Max Green » Mon Apr 11, 2016 3:22 am

After having some time to let it digest I still would've preferred Kidd to "rest" Yanni/Middleton/Jabari for the 4th quarter. No need to get super worked up over this particular win, I had us winning this game all along. We still have one of the worst records in the league over our last 10 games. No matter how much we wanted it, we wasn't going to lose them all.
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Re: PG Thread (Sixers) - Can't stop the Sixers tank 

Post#103 » by M-C-G » Mon Apr 11, 2016 3:29 am

Worst win of the season...hard to justify frankly and I am one of the most anti tankers I think we have on this board. We had them march back against our Young3 and EASILY could have just sat them down the stretch.

Makes no sense at all.
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Re: PG Thread (Sixers) - Can't stop the Sixers tank 

Post#104 » by thomchatt3rton » Mon Apr 11, 2016 3:38 am

emunney wrote:I would love to be a fly on the wall during the discussions on whether or not to sit anybody else tonight. Giannis took some hard falls last game - it would have been easy to justify. I wonder who if anybody was in favor of shutting guys down. I wonder what the real organizational logic is for continuing to push. It seems right now as though they are fine with anything that comes from playing the big 3. I bet it's no more complicated than that.


This theory would explain a lot actually. I also think they've simply just handed the thing over to Kidd and promised they wouldn't interfere with how he runs the team in-game. I'd be willing to bet that was one of his prerequisites for agreeing to this job. Which isn't totally unreasonable in and of itself.

The only thing we can say with absolute certainty is that this organization, for whatever reason, simply does not value draft picks.

I wonder if Kidd is too "win-now" to have the patience for building via the draft. Or if, like the Schwartz/Excel clients fixation, it's a case of Kidd having a narrow field of vision and not valuing highly enough the things that are outside of his wheelhouse (which I think the draft is).
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Re: PG Thread (Sixers) - Can't stop the Sixers tank 

Post#105 » by tydett » Mon Apr 11, 2016 4:25 am

thomchatt3rton wrote:The only thing we can say with absolute certainty is that this organization, for whatever reason, simply does not value draft picks.


Why value draft picks when there will always be a Jeff Schwartz client regardless of where you draft.
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Re: PG Thread (Sixers) - Can't stop the Sixers tank 

Post#106 » by Prince12 » Mon Apr 11, 2016 4:45 am

Nice lineup at the end there Kidd. All out for number 33. Sweet.
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Re: PG Thread (Sixers) - Can't stop the Sixers tank 

Post#107 » by Diggr14 » Mon Apr 11, 2016 4:53 am

The difference between Hinkie's resignation manifesto and Kidd's impending resignation letter is that Kidd will be writing in magenta crayola and maybe draw a few pictures.
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Re: PG Thread (Sixers) - Can't stop the Sixers tank 

Post#108 » by FlagsFlyForever » Mon Apr 11, 2016 4:56 am

Ron Swanson wrote:
emunney wrote:I just can't **** on Kidd for this too bad. For one, the 6ers are utterly terrible. Tanking teams have been beating them all year. For another, for all of pre-Hinkie history, tanking meant sitting your good vets and rolling with the youth. Well our youth is pretty good. They're better than the 6ers, at least.

What you guys are asking for is a much bigger ask than you seem to think it is. It is ok to put guys in tough spots, to give Giannis the green light to shoot all the 3s he wants, to trot out weird lineups and give Vaughn and JOB opportunities, but it is different to sit totally healthy 21 year olds so that you can ensure a loss against the worst team in the league. Acting like what Kidd is doing is stupid beyond precedent ignores what the precedent actually is, which is basically everything that Kidd has done: sit guys with mild injuries, give the keys to the team to the guys with the most long term promise. Again, this is every late season tank in history before Hinkie came along. You never lose every game.


I somewhat agree with you. But what gets me is that we still trotted out Middleton for 40+ minutes on the first night of a back-to-back when we all thought that he'd (and he should have) be shut down for the rest of the year with the convenient "thigh bruise". I felt that all of Kidd's lineup changes and distribution of minutes was defensible up to this point, but the Middleton thing is just confusing. I don't get why you do that this late in the year.

I am sure the training staff is highly involved in what Middleton can and cannot do which is why I have no problem with him playing 40 minutes tonight. He just missed 3 games due to a minor injury. We saw how they treated Jabari to start the season. The team is proving to be very cautious. If Middleton played tonight, then he is 100% with no risk of further injury.

Kidd doesn't care about winning. He is riding his kids and letting the chips fall where they may. At the beginning of this season, this is exactly what everybody was clamoring for.

If we have learned anything from history, it's that benching perfectly healthy players in an attempt to lose more games will get the league's attention. I understand the 8th worst record comes with a nearly 10% chance to move into the top three, but if we obviously tank then there is zero percent chance the league would let us move up. At least now there is a legitimate 4% chance of moving up.

The difference between the 8th pick and the 10th pick is virtually nothing anyway. I'll make a bet with anybody. You can select a player who is available at 8 during this year's draft and I'll take a player who is available at 10. I say there's about a 55% chance that you select a better player.
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Re: PG Thread (Sixers) - Can't stop the Sixers tank 

Post#109 » by BJ Sandered » Mon Apr 11, 2016 4:57 am

I just really can't fathom why the hell you bring back Middleton at this point. There's no logic involved in the decision when the season is lost, and as many of you have said, it probably comes down to Kidd's ego more than anything else. I expected them to win this game, so I'm not surprised, but after seeing that they won by only one point in OT no less it's just damn right unnerving.
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Re: PG Thread (Sixers) - Can't stop the Sixers tank 

Post#110 » by Istanbullus » Mon Apr 11, 2016 5:14 am

InsideOut wrote:Most idiotic franchise ever. While other teams shut guys down this time of year the Bucks actually bring them back and play them 40 minutes so they can try and move 4 or 5 spots back in the draft order. I honestly can't comprehend the stupidity involved. Does the Bucks front office even talk about how to handle these last few games and what the draft situation is? I'm honestly at a loss. :crazy:


That's what boggles me: the disconnect between front office and coaching in planning a strategy for the end of the year and the future. Don't they have a tiered draft board that says "We have 8 guys in the first tier. Wouldn't be a bad idea to get better odds at this point."

Put the key players at 28m per game and let them play hard. If you win then, fine. Why go 40? With Mids off an injury nobody would have cried foul play if he only went 16-20 minutes. Dumb. They know the odds and the importance of landing a higher pick.
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Re: PG Thread (Sixers) - Can't stop the Sixers tank 

Post#111 » by Wonka » Mon Apr 11, 2016 5:31 am

Milbuck wrote:Giannis really just had an off night and still put up 14/9/7/5/3 lmao. Casually almost gets a 5x5


Right?? Those are numbers I would be salivating over and he really didn't have a presence until the tail end of the game lol. His defense in particular was insane down the stretch.
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Re: PG Thread (Sixers) - Can't stop the Sixers tank 

Post#112 » by HKPackFan » Mon Apr 11, 2016 6:06 am

Istanbullus wrote:
InsideOut wrote:Most idiotic franchise ever. While other teams shut guys down this time of year the Bucks actually bring them back and play them 40 minutes so they can try and move 4 or 5 spots back in the draft order. I honestly can't comprehend the stupidity involved. Does the Bucks front office even talk about how to handle these last few games and what the draft situation is? I'm honestly at a loss. :crazy:


That's what boggles me: the disconnect between front office and coaching in planning a strategy for the end of the year and the future. Don't they have a tiered draft board that says "We have 8 guys in the first tier. Wouldn't be a bad idea to get better odds at this point."

Put the key players at 28m per game and let them play hard. If you win then, fine. Why go 40? With Mids off an injury nobody would have cried foul play if he only went 16-20 minutes. Dumb. They know the odds and the importance of landing a higher pick.



I can understand if the justification is you can't tank hard but gotta stealth tank. Ok, I get it, let the youth core 3 get their minutes. Sure. But you can still shut them down towards the end of the game when they hit 30+ minutes. I can even get your stealth tank to end the 4th quarter.....BUT IN OT!?!? Seriously!??! That's not a stealth tank when the starters are working 40+ minutes in OT!! :banghead:

This was a costly victory. And has to the potential to be truly costly if a player falls to 7 or 8 that we could have had but are stuck at 9 thanks to this game, OR even worse if the pick before us ends up in the top 3, it could be a pretty horrific scenario.
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Re: PG Thread (Sixers) - Can't stop the Sixers tank 

Post#113 » by mke_design » Mon Apr 11, 2016 6:20 am

We handed them the game over and over and we still won. I think that's more remarkable than the fact Kidd did as little as possible to win without showing his team how to throw in the towel. I can go either way with "culture" and what he wants to provide. But some of y'all need some Xanax


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Re: PG Thread (Sixers) - Can't stop the Sixers tank 

Post#114 » by HKPackFan » Mon Apr 11, 2016 7:06 am

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Was he saying this?

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Re: PG Thread (Sixers) - Can't stop the Sixers tank 

Post#115 » by imithanos » Mon Apr 11, 2016 8:05 am

It should have been clear by now, that Kidd doesn't value picks that much.

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Re: PG Thread (Sixers) - Can't stop the Sixers tank 

Post#116 » by galena » Mon Apr 11, 2016 10:56 am

Just fahking Unbelievable. Fire that worthless yet conceited POS of a "coach". Too dumb to even draw up a play. Running our stars into the ground. God he needs to GTFO
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Re: PG Thread (Sixers) - Can't stop the Sixers tank 

Post#117 » by galena » Mon Apr 11, 2016 11:01 am

RiotPunch wrote:Image

God I'd like to smack that stupid effing face of his
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Re: PG Thread (Sixers) - Can't stop the Sixers tank 

Post#118 » by rioeire » Mon Apr 11, 2016 12:18 pm

Useless win against a pseudo basketball team that makes no sense. :o
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Re: PG Thread (Sixers) - Can't stop the Sixers tank 

Post#119 » by Shaffty » Mon Apr 11, 2016 12:32 pm

The Bucks FO and Coach NOT tanking is probably even more concerning...


These lineups are garbage, I thought they were garbage to lose on purpose, I thought he was purposley subbing Giannis/Jabari/Middleton poorly to disrupt the flow of the game, I thought he was playing Moose/Jabari?Vaughn on D to lose.


Now it turns out he thought all those things might work???
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Re: PG Thread (Sixers) - Can't stop the Sixers tank 

Post#120 » by Jez2983 » Mon Apr 11, 2016 1:03 pm

Watching how excited the whole team got on that last play makes me realise how hard it is to just flat out lose all the time.

I don't want to defend Kidd, as I feel Large Inglis minutes would've helped here, but he did go total bench lineup against Memphis and we smashed them. What I'm saying is that against a team like the 76ers it's quite possible our bench could've still got the job done.

There's just some horrible teams in the league this year.
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