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Thon Development Part 1

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Re: Thon Development Part 1 

Post#501 » by Shaffty » Thu Jul 28, 2016 4:17 pm

Badgerlander wrote:http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2653109-realistic-expectations-for-milwaukee-bucks-rookie-thon-maker-in-2016-17

Realistic Expectations for Milwaukee Bucks Rookie Thon Maker in 2016-17

The skepticism about Maker's abilities is starting to fade after his performance in Las Vegas. He was an All-NBA Summer League second-team selection after averaging 14.2 points and 9.6 rebounds per game.

"I think he's answered that he can rebound the ball, and he's playing extremely hard on both ends," Milwaukee head coach Jason Kidd told ESPN's Cassidy Hubbarth during a summer-league telecast against the Dallas Mavericks. "He's young. He's only 19 years old, and he's got a lot to learn about the game, but his effort and energy is at a very high level."

The Bucks have the depth at power forward with Jabari Parker and Mirza Teletovic to bring Maker along slowly.

The best thing that Maker does right now is shoot pick-and-pop jumpers, but that's also a skill set both Parker and Teletovic bring to the table. Milwaukee's hope down the road is that Maker can play alongside Parker and Giannis Antetokounmpo anyway.

General manager John Hammond explained the lineup possibilities to the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel's Charles F. Gardner:
Could you ever imagine, three years down the line when we're moving toward becoming a championship-caliber team, could you see having Giannis and Jabari and Thon at the floor at one time? I think it has a chance to be pretty dynamic, and I don't know who is playing what position, but hopefully we're going to be pretty good doing it.

The Bucks experimented with Antetokounmpo at point guard last year, and Parker could play small forward, or Maker could move to center when he adds some muscle to his frame. That sort of length on the floor at one time could make Milwaukee a defensive juggernaut.

Based on Maker's summer-league performance, the timeline could be shorter than even the Bucks originally thought. He looked like one of the most talented players in this draft class over the last few weeks, though there's still plenty of reason to proceed deliberately.

Concerns
Maker's ability at 7'1" to shoot threes with ease and run the floor like a guard makes the imagination run wild. The South Sudan native also has solid footwork and doesn't need a lot of time to get off his jumper. It was impressive watching him work in the pick-and-pop.

The Bucks rave about Maker's work ethic, and he clearly spends a lot of time in the gym for individual workouts honing his skill. But when it comes time to play a team game, the rookie is far from a polished product.

He was a black hole in summer league and did not record a single assist in five games. Once he touched the ball, his only thought seemed to be getting up a shot. It's encouraging to see how confident he is, especially with his jumper, but when he couldn't get his attempt up right away, he was a possession killer.

He needs work seeing the floor when he goes to drive. In the play below, he caught the ball around the elbow and had two shooters wide-open:
Image

The ball should have gone to Rashad Vaughn (No. 20) for three. Instead, Maker had tunnel vision and tried to score over two defenders.

This is the type of play that makes Draymond Green so dangerous. He can make defenses pay when the pick-and-roll sets up a three-on-two or four-on-three advantage. Maker has the hands, the jumper and quickness to get there if he's able to develop his vision.

It's going to take time to get used to a team setting. Maker's spent most of his life able to dominate players his age, and there was no need to pass the ball. His lack of strength was also apparent when he got the ball inside and held it long enough for his defender to get set. He's easy to move off his spot and usually ends up still forcing a bad look.

This is where Maker misses the college experience—a good coach could have drilled some of these bad tendencies out of him.

He's able to put the ball on the floor and has some moves in his repertoire—the ability to spin around defenders off the dribble and cover a lot of ground is borderline unfair at his size. He struggles to finish off that move right now, but once he gets stronger in his lower body and core, he'll become better at the rim.

Maker is also raw defensively, but he has better awareness there than on offense. Again, his ceiling is high because of his length, quickness and potential to guard multiple positions. He did a good job hedging on ball screens and offering some rim protection during summer league. He's quick off his feet and has good timing as a shot-blocker, though he did struggle trying to keep the ball in front of him even as his athleticism helped him recover.

The best-case scenario is that Maker turns into a two-way, playmaking power forward who can score and set up teammates.

Expectations
Even though Maker is in the age range of a one-and-done freshman, he should be treated like players who entered the league straight out of high school before the age limit was put into effect.

Considering Maker's talent and his lack of experience, his potential career arc could follow a guy such as Jermaine O'Neal, who also skipped college. O'Neal played only 45 games and averaged 10.2 minutes as a rookie, and he didn't become a regular until his fifth season in the league.

By year six, he was an All-Star.

Maker's rookie playing time could come down to how successful the Bucks are. This is a roster talented enough to make the playoffs, and if Milwaukee is playing well enough to remain in the postseason hunt, Kidd may hesitate to give Maker real minutes. If the Bucks struggle or have injuries, he could enter the rotation.

It's hard to say at this point. A lot of the same things could have been written about the Greek Freak as a rookie, and he ended up starting 23 games and playing 24.6 minutes per game. Maybe Maker progresses at the same rate.

No matter how it plays out, the Bucks have to feel good about their pick based on what they witnessed in summer league. Maker is a rare talent just needing to be molded.


Complete Per-Game Stat Predictions
Minutes: 11.2
Points: 4.1
Rebounds: 2.3
Assists: 0.1
Field-goal percentage: .371
Blocks: 0.5


Wow this piece completely misses the point on Thon. what a waste of words lol


1) NO ONE WHO WAS PICKED TOP TEN is a black hole in SUMMER LEAGUE. They are just. Playing in summer league.
2) He was actually really good on D. showed good awareness and overall good positioning. Got stuck on an island a few times. But welcome to the NBA
3) YOU CANT BE A BLACK HOLE IN SUMMER LEAGUE
4) Thon isn't going to be built into Giannis 2.0 he is going to be built into LARRY SANDERS! 2.0. If you look at everything Thon has done up until this point under the context of "can he replace the role that Larry Sanders left" There is no way you are anything but estatic at where this 19 yr old kid is
5) Bleacher Report is garbage
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Re: Thon Development Part 1 

Post#502 » by Ron Swanson » Thu Jul 28, 2016 4:24 pm

That's kind of a weird write up on Thon. The writer basically praises him for a good portion of the article and says how he hasn't looked as raw as advertised. Admits he looks promising as a rebounder.....then says he expects him to only grab 8 boards per 36, and shoot a horrendous 37% from the field.

It's like he actually thinks that the role Thon had in SL will be his role once the games start to matter.
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Re: Thon Development Part 1 

Post#503 » by H2tObes » Thu Jul 28, 2016 4:26 pm

Thon is going to get bullied by the scrubiest of scrubs, he really needs to put on weight. I expect him to look a bit lost outside of the occasional weak side block
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Thon Development Part 1 

Post#504 » by BuckHole » Thu Jul 28, 2016 5:30 pm

Nice commentary, Shaffty.

I am at the cynical point where I don't believe anything that comes out of the office of a team on a rookie; the incentive is to build excitement; which I am. Words like "confident," "high energy," "strong work ethic," etc. are similar to the real-estate terms "cozy", "charming", "conveniently located" or "efficient kitchen" that don't explain what the truth is -- it's deception.

In my mind, skepticism of someone's message is necessary. It's the action and results that define.

Edited for attempt at clarity.


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Re: Thon Development Part 1 

Post#505 » by Badgerlander » Fri Jul 29, 2016 1:42 pm

Image
Shoot, Move, and Communicate...

Spoiler:

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Re: Thon Development Part 1 

Post#506 » by Fotis St » Sun Jul 31, 2016 1:18 am

Milwaukee Bucks Reportedly Sign Thon Maker, Malcolm Brogdon ...
Draft picks: '15 Jerian Grant, '16 Thon Maker, '17 Isaiah Hartenstein/*John Collins, '18 TD Devonte Graham, Hamidou Diallo, '20 Sam Merrill, Killian Tillie, '21 Joe Wieskamp, '22 TU C.Braun/G.Procida '23 Tristan Vukcevic/Maxwell Lewis
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Re: Thon Development Part 1 

Post#507 » by Diggr14 » Sun Jul 31, 2016 2:10 am

3-year deal on brogd?

can they go 4.. i forget the CBA rules on 2nd round picks. I just hope it isn't a 2 yr pact.
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Re: Thon Development Part 1 

Post#508 » by Frank Nova » Sun Jul 31, 2016 2:30 am

Badgerlander wrote:Image


At 1st glance I seriously thought it had Thon listed at 33yrs old :lol: ... Never know these days.
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Re: Thon Development Part 1 

Post#509 » by Ron Swanson » Wed Aug 3, 2016 4:08 pm

Food for thought (pun intended) about Brandon Ingram's weight-gaining regiment and how he hopes to add 20 lbs by the season opener:

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/17194156/brandon-ingram-delicate-art-weight-gain

The knee-jerk reaction: If Ingram wants to succeed in the "man's world" of the NBA, he must continue feasting to add as much weight as possible as quickly as possible. That view isn't exclusive to Ingram; it's decades old and is especially reserved for svelte young hoopers who, upon realizing their pro aspirations, look like saplings in an old-growth forest.

But it's wrong, experts say.

Weight goals and accelerated weight gain, they claim, are not only shortsighted, but dangerous.


Thought it was interesting in relation to Thon adding strength to his frame. With our training staff and the physical development of Jabari and Giannis, I feel a lot better about how Thon can tackle it, but it's also a fine line to walk between adding mass and adding healthy weight that doesn't affect speed and athleticism. I honestly think that Thon only needs to add about 10-15 lbs for him to be an effective 5.

For instance, Larry at his peak was listed at 235 lbs. Strength difference doesn't always reflect in the numbers or visually. Just look at the difference between where he started and where ended up at age 25-26:

Image

Image
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Re: Thon Development Part 1 

Post#510 » by M-C-G » Wed Aug 3, 2016 4:19 pm

Ron Swanson wrote:Food for thought (pun intended) about Brandon Ingram's weight-gaining regiment and how he hopes to add 20 lbs by the season opener:

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/17194156/brandon-ingram-delicate-art-weight-gain

The knee-jerk reaction: If Ingram wants to succeed in the "man's world" of the NBA, he must continue feasting to add as much weight as possible as quickly as possible. That view isn't exclusive to Ingram; it's decades old and is especially reserved for svelte young hoopers who, upon realizing their pro aspirations, look like saplings in an old-growth forest.

But it's wrong, experts say.

Weight goals and accelerated weight gain, they claim, are not only shortsighted, but dangerous.


Thought it was interesting in relation to Thon adding strength to his frame. With our training staff and the physical development of Jabari and Giannis, I feel a lot better about how Thon can tackle it, but it's also a fine line to walk between adding mass and adding healthy weight that doesn't affect speed and athleticism. I honestly think that Thon only needs to add about 10-15 lbs for him to be an effective 5.

For instance, Larry at his peak was listed at 235 lbs. Strength difference doesn't always reflect in the numbers or visually. Just look at the difference between where he started and where ended up at age 25-26:

Image

Image


That's part of the reason I laughed when people were suggesting he could add 40 lbs. One, it is completely unnecessary and two in the league right now there are not a lot of dominant, overpowering centers, so that 235 weight, mixed with his length should be sufficient for 90% of the match ups he would have.
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Re: Thon Development Part 1 

Post#511 » by SupremeHustle » Fri Aug 5, 2016 4:06 pm

I know we are more concerned with Giannis and Jabari being great right now, but if anyone has seen Thon Maker, please tell him to pick up the white courtesy phone.
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Re: Thon Development Part 1 

Post#512 » by Fotis St » Sun Aug 7, 2016 1:39 pm

Saw Giannis hustling and dunking
Saw Jabari 360 double clutch dunk
Just show me a video Thon eating to get my hopes up!!!
Draft picks: '15 Jerian Grant, '16 Thon Maker, '17 Isaiah Hartenstein/*John Collins, '18 TD Devonte Graham, Hamidou Diallo, '20 Sam Merrill, Killian Tillie, '21 Joe Wieskamp, '22 TU C.Braun/G.Procida '23 Tristan Vukcevic/Maxwell Lewis
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Re: Thon Development Part 1 

Post#513 » by jakecronus8 » Sun Aug 7, 2016 5:56 pm

Last I heard Thon wandered out of his room at Wheaton Franciscan when his nurse was on her smoke break. Hope someone finds him. He needs his blood pressure meds.
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Re: Thon Development Part 1 

Post#514 » by GreatWhiteStiff » Sun Aug 7, 2016 8:54 pm

Ron Swanson wrote:That's kind of a weird write up on Thon. The writer basically praises him for a good portion of the article and says how he hasn't looked as raw as advertised. Admits he looks promising as a rebounder.....then says he expects him to only grab 8 boards per 36, and shoot a horrendous 37% from the field.

It's like he actually thinks that the role Thon had in SL will be his role once the games start to matter.


37% makes no sense for a guy who can run and jump and make most of his attempts at the rim...I mean maybe he thinks he'll shoot a lot of 3s at a 30% clip or something? I doubt that happens though.
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Re: Thon Development Part 1 

Post#515 » by BuckHole » Mon Aug 8, 2016 4:25 am

I am so excited to see more of Thon! I'm going to burst when I see him and Giannis on the court together. (Grounded expectations, but excited to see it.)


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Re: Thon Development Part 1 

Post#516 » by Fotis St » Mon Aug 8, 2016 10:27 pm

My man, The Throne Maker !!!
Draft picks: '15 Jerian Grant, '16 Thon Maker, '17 Isaiah Hartenstein/*John Collins, '18 TD Devonte Graham, Hamidou Diallo, '20 Sam Merrill, Killian Tillie, '21 Joe Wieskamp, '22 TU C.Braun/G.Procida '23 Tristan Vukcevic/Maxwell Lewis
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Re: Thon Development Part 1 

Post#517 » by Fotis St » Tue Aug 9, 2016 8:17 pm

Thon should have asked... "How did you fooled the Celtics to draft you at #3 ?"
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Re: Thon Development Part 1 

Post#518 » by BuckHole » Fri Aug 12, 2016 3:00 pm

I'm starving for Thon news.


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Re: Thon Development Part 1 

Post#519 » by Ron Swanson » Fri Aug 12, 2016 3:04 pm

I haven't seen too many 7'1 guys who can explode of the floor like that. His jumper gets my excited, but his potential as a defensive anchor and athletic shot-blocker is going to be what determines how great of a player he becomes. Wouldn't be surprising at all to see him and Giannis make some All-Defense 1st teams in the near future.
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Re: Thon Development Part 1 

Post#520 » by Wiscfan92 » Fri Aug 12, 2016 3:16 pm

Shaffty wrote:
Badgerlander wrote:http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2653109-realistic-expectations-for-milwaukee-bucks-rookie-thon-maker-in-2016-17

Realistic Expectations for Milwaukee Bucks Rookie Thon Maker in 2016-17

The skepticism about Maker's abilities is starting to fade after his performance in Las Vegas. He was an All-NBA Summer League second-team selection after averaging 14.2 points and 9.6 rebounds per game.

"I think he's answered that he can rebound the ball, and he's playing extremely hard on both ends," Milwaukee head coach Jason Kidd told ESPN's Cassidy Hubbarth during a summer-league telecast against the Dallas Mavericks. "He's young. He's only 19 years old, and he's got a lot to learn about the game, but his effort and energy is at a very high level."

The Bucks have the depth at power forward with Jabari Parker and Mirza Teletovic to bring Maker along slowly.

The best thing that Maker does right now is shoot pick-and-pop jumpers, but that's also a skill set both Parker and Teletovic bring to the table. Milwaukee's hope down the road is that Maker can play alongside Parker and Giannis Antetokounmpo anyway.

General manager John Hammond explained the lineup possibilities to the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel's Charles F. Gardner:
Could you ever imagine, three years down the line when we're moving toward becoming a championship-caliber team, could you see having Giannis and Jabari and Thon at the floor at one time? I think it has a chance to be pretty dynamic, and I don't know who is playing what position, but hopefully we're going to be pretty good doing it.

The Bucks experimented with Antetokounmpo at point guard last year, and Parker could play small forward, or Maker could move to center when he adds some muscle to his frame. That sort of length on the floor at one time could make Milwaukee a defensive juggernaut.

Based on Maker's summer-league performance, the timeline could be shorter than even the Bucks originally thought. He looked like one of the most talented players in this draft class over the last few weeks, though there's still plenty of reason to proceed deliberately.

Concerns
Maker's ability at 7'1" to shoot threes with ease and run the floor like a guard makes the imagination run wild. The South Sudan native also has solid footwork and doesn't need a lot of time to get off his jumper. It was impressive watching him work in the pick-and-pop.

The Bucks rave about Maker's work ethic, and he clearly spends a lot of time in the gym for individual workouts honing his skill. But when it comes time to play a team game, the rookie is far from a polished product.

He was a black hole in summer league and did not record a single assist in five games. Once he touched the ball, his only thought seemed to be getting up a shot. It's encouraging to see how confident he is, especially with his jumper, but when he couldn't get his attempt up right away, he was a possession killer.

He needs work seeing the floor when he goes to drive. In the play below, he caught the ball around the elbow and had two shooters wide-open:
Image

The ball should have gone to Rashad Vaughn (No. 20) for three. Instead, Maker had tunnel vision and tried to score over two defenders.

This is the type of play that makes Draymond Green so dangerous. He can make defenses pay when the pick-and-roll sets up a three-on-two or four-on-three advantage. Maker has the hands, the jumper and quickness to get there if he's able to develop his vision.

It's going to take time to get used to a team setting. Maker's spent most of his life able to dominate players his age, and there was no need to pass the ball. His lack of strength was also apparent when he got the ball inside and held it long enough for his defender to get set. He's easy to move off his spot and usually ends up still forcing a bad look.

This is where Maker misses the college experience—a good coach could have drilled some of these bad tendencies out of him.

He's able to put the ball on the floor and has some moves in his repertoire—the ability to spin around defenders off the dribble and cover a lot of ground is borderline unfair at his size. He struggles to finish off that move right now, but once he gets stronger in his lower body and core, he'll become better at the rim.

Maker is also raw defensively, but he has better awareness there than on offense. Again, his ceiling is high because of his length, quickness and potential to guard multiple positions. He did a good job hedging on ball screens and offering some rim protection during summer league. He's quick off his feet and has good timing as a shot-blocker, though he did struggle trying to keep the ball in front of him even as his athleticism helped him recover.

The best-case scenario is that Maker turns into a two-way, playmaking power forward who can score and set up teammates.

Expectations
Even though Maker is in the age range of a one-and-done freshman, he should be treated like players who entered the league straight out of high school before the age limit was put into effect.

Considering Maker's talent and his lack of experience, his potential career arc could follow a guy such as Jermaine O'Neal, who also skipped college. O'Neal played only 45 games and averaged 10.2 minutes as a rookie, and he didn't become a regular until his fifth season in the league.

By year six, he was an All-Star.

Maker's rookie playing time could come down to how successful the Bucks are. This is a roster talented enough to make the playoffs, and if Milwaukee is playing well enough to remain in the postseason hunt, Kidd may hesitate to give Maker real minutes. If the Bucks struggle or have injuries, he could enter the rotation.

It's hard to say at this point. A lot of the same things could have been written about the Greek Freak as a rookie, and he ended up starting 23 games and playing 24.6 minutes per game. Maybe Maker progresses at the same rate.

No matter how it plays out, the Bucks have to feel good about their pick based on what they witnessed in summer league. Maker is a rare talent just needing to be molded.


Complete Per-Game Stat Predictions
Minutes: 11.2
Points: 4.1
Rebounds: 2.3
Assists: 0.1
Field-goal percentage: .371
Blocks: 0.5


Wow this piece completely misses the point on Thon. what a waste of words lol


1) NO ONE WHO WAS PICKED TOP TEN is a black hole in SUMMER LEAGUE. They are just. Playing in summer league.
2) He was actually really good on D. showed good awareness and overall good positioning. Got stuck on an island a few times. But welcome to the NBA
3) YOU CANT BE A BLACK HOLE IN SUMMER LEAGUE
4) Thon isn't going to be built into Giannis 2.0 he is going to be built into LARRY SANDERS! 2.0. If you look at everything Thon has done up until this point under the context of "can he replace the role that Larry Sanders left" There is no way you are anything but estatic at where this 19 yr old kid is
5) Bleacher Report is garbage


#5 couldn't be more accurate. I hate how everything has to be a slideshow.
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