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Jason Kidd's development

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Re: Jason Kidd's development 

Post#21 » by emunney » Sat Oct 1, 2016 2:10 pm

Can he get Stockton on the staff? Dude was spazzing on that camp vid.
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Re: Jason Kidd's development 

Post#22 » by Gianstoppable » Sat Oct 1, 2016 2:51 pm

I love Kidd's connections, I really do believe he makes Milwaukee a more desirable destination. Now, if the players he wants to bring in fit well enough is the question. I enjoy Kidd, some things he has done made me scratch my head but the way the lineup was at the end of last season kind of makes me think he was just giving tough love to guys and now has a good idea of what this team actually is and can be going forward. Remember, everyone loved Kidd his first year because we overachieved, now theres a lot of haters because the team took a step back.

Moving Monroe to the bench took balls, even though we all said it should have been done earlier. Having Giannis initiate the offense was a great call, another one that a lot of us here wanted to see done. I think regardless of who our coach is everyone will hate on them regardless until we get results, even if that problem lies more within the players he has.

Now, the one downfall about Kidd seems to be the Schwartz connection and who knows maybe its just a coincidence but we all know that is probably not the case. I am happy to see Kidd here for the foreseeable future. The players seem to really like him and coach Kidd does seem to be opening up just a little more each season, he smiles at least 3 times a week now.
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Re: Jason Kidd's development 

Post#23 » by GoldenAntlers » Sat Oct 1, 2016 4:25 pm

I like Kidd as a coach and believe he will continue to improve. His trajectory is in line with the core and I'm okay with that.
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Re: Jason Kidd's development 

Post#24 » by DutchManDanFan » Sun Oct 2, 2016 9:45 am

The big question is if he learned from the mistakes he made. This starts with admitting you made mistakes, but ofcourse he didn't do that in public. He has to admit (to himself) he's not the great coach (yet) who can make it work with players that don't fit or are bad defenders. For this he has to have some modesty, but that is rare with (former) stars.
But in every interview that I hear I get the impression he's very smart. He doesn't tell what he realy thinks and he doesn't tell what he doesn't want to tell, whatever journalists try. I think he knows very well what the big picture is, how to get there and when. Last year had no meaning at all. So we all know nothing realy at the moment. But he showed he had patience with the development of Giannis and Jabari and that was the most important thing. The question is if this year is soon enough to harvest already and get in the play-offs (even if it's 8th seed).
I still have my doubts about Kidd but for now I have much more confidence he'll become a great coach. And I'll be waiting for the moment VooDoo admits he was wrong all the time. ;)
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Re: Jason Kidd's development 

Post#25 » by 3Diamantidis » Sun Oct 2, 2016 10:21 am

Kidd got his pass for me at the moment he made Giannis Point.
It unlocked so many possibilities.

I posted back then and i will do it again now: How many coaches in the league would have done this?
It's to his credit.
Second credit: He made middleton one of the top SGs in the league. He gave him the confidence, he gave him everything khris wanted to feel important.

Is it enough to delete his crucial mistakes(monroe, copeland, martin, vasquez, bayless/mayo and their usage, the rotation mins of the roster in general, the game plan at crunch time)?
Delete no. But those 2 things definitely bought him plenty of time.

With giannis at point, khris at that level(hopefully he will come back even better) and jabari certainly taking one more step forward this season(i mean all of us realize that with giannis at point, jabari is the player we want right?) kidd has built a very strong core for years to come.
And that was the most difficult part.

The rest of the pieces seem a problem right now because he doesn't give signs of knowing who will stay with those 3 in the future and who will not. He is experimenting, trying different things. Some of these things are annoying(we all know that monroe won't fit no matter if he is a good player), some others remain to be judged this season(MCW, Henson, plumlee, vaughn) and some others are very good moves on paper(teletovic, delly, terry). And there are always the question marks(brogdon, maker, beasley).

If the team makes the playoffs, i think he will guide the bucks in the future for enough years.
If not, i think the owners will give him one more season(17/18) with the reminder that even if they do not make the POs, the "big 3" must continue to evolve.
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Re: Jason Kidd's development 

Post#26 » by M-C-G » Sun Oct 2, 2016 3:10 pm

thomchatt3rton wrote:How about this: What kind of credit does Kidd get for PGiannis?


All of it that can't be attributed to Giannis? I think if Larry Drew was the coach, Giannis might very well be heading down the Tim Thomas path as a player. Drew had no idea what to do with Giannis.
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Re: Jason Kidd's development 

Post#27 » by M-C-G » Sun Oct 2, 2016 3:13 pm

DutchManDanFan wrote:The big question is if he learned from the mistakes he made. This starts with admitting you made mistakes, but ofcourse he didn't do that in public. He has to admit (to himself) he's not the great coach (yet) who can make it work with players that don't fit or are bad defenders. For this he has to have some modesty, but that is rare with (former) stars.
But in every interview that I hear I get the impression he's very smart. He doesn't tell what he realy thinks and he doesn't tell what he doesn't want to tell, whatever journalists try. I think he knows very well what the big picture is, how to get there and when. Last year had no meaning at all. So we all know nothing realy at the moment. But he showed he had patience with the development of Giannis and Jabari and that was the most important thing. The question is if this year is soon enough to harvest already and get in the play-offs (even if it's 8th seed).
I still have my doubts about Kidd but for now I have much more confidence he'll become a great coach. And I'll be waiting for the moment VooDoo admits he was wrong all the time. ;)


This was exactly my concern and his post season letter to the fans was an admission of fault. At least enough that it bought him some time with me. Hearing that we are pushing pace and 3s this offseason is another step down that path which I find encouraging.
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Re: Jason Kidd's development 

Post#28 » by Fotis St » Sun Oct 2, 2016 3:29 pm

Drew new exactly what he was doing.
Drew slotted Middleton to the SG position.
Giannis was so good at the SF, but he had Middleton there with his nice shooting ... so he slotted Khris to the SG.
Giannis was slotted as SG at his rookie year too. Giannis grew and switched with Khris.
Of course Kidd did not make Giannis PG.
Giannis participated in the All-star skills competition in his rookie year.
Giannis PG skills was shown early, but Knight was such a dominant guard at that time and Giannis too raw.
I have huge respect for Drew.
Kidd needs help at the defensive scheme and I said it before, Popovich took Mesina the Italian coach (he was CSKA Russian head coach)
Kidd needs at least next summer either Itoudis (CSKA head coach) or Bartzokas (Barcelona head coach). Both have won the Euroleague title as head coach.
Bucks need another Greek God ... another Greek mind to the coaching staff.
The two above could turn out to be your "Giannis Coach Version".
Next Year...

They already make videos of Barcelona's Bartzokas style ... Bartzokas has great offensive plans...
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Re: Jason Kidd's development 

Post#29 » by thomchatt3rton » Sun Oct 2, 2016 3:52 pm

M-C-G wrote:
thomchatt3rton wrote:How about this: What kind of credit does Kidd get for PGiannis?


All of it that can't be attributed to Giannis? I think if Larry Drew was the coach, Giannis might very well be heading down the Tim Thomas path as a player. Drew had no idea what to do with Giannis.


Thats kinda how I feel- I think you have to give Kidd credit. It probably in part came naturally from Kidd's tendency to hunt match-up advantages which has been the main defining trait of his coaching style (maybe the only defining trait).

I do wonder though- if we had had a better record and healthier backcourt, would Kidd have pulled the trigger on PGiannis? I know they were working on it in practice etc.
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Re: Jason Kidd's development 

Post#30 » by Fotis St » Sun Oct 2, 2016 3:59 pm

Nevertheless, Yes, Kidd deserves credit to the Point Giannis continuity !!!
MCW was not as good as expected, he could not set for himself or his teammates.
Thank God the circumstances turned Giannis into God Mode.
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Re: Jason Kidd's development 

Post#31 » by M-C-G » Tue Oct 4, 2016 3:26 pm

Bucks averaged 15.6 3PA per game last year, made 5.4, @ 34.5% according to basetball ref.

Last night, Bucks took 25 3PA, made 10, @ 40%...court looked to open up quite a bit, and guys seemed to be hustling to get to the corners in transition. Obviously just one preseason game, but I think the changes were pretty evident.
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Re: Jason Kidd's development 

Post#32 » by JimmyTheKid » Tue Oct 4, 2016 3:56 pm

M-C-G wrote:Bucks averaged 15.6 3PA per game last year, made 5.4, @ 34.5% according to basetball ref.

Last night, Bucks took 25 3PA, made 10, @ 40%...court looked to open up quite a bit, and guys seemed to be hustling to get to the corners in transition. Obviously just one preseason game, but I think the changes were pretty evident.


Yup. And the argument for not adding guys like Delly and Telly until this season is because going into last year we didn't absolutely know Giannis and Jabari were going to be Giannis and Jabari, FRANCHISE CORNERSTONES. But they both took huge leaps. After determining the core, Kidd and Hammond went out and found pieces to fit. Our shooters are going to get a ton of uncontested looks this year. Because not only do Jabari and Giannis both have the ability to constantly draw a second defender, but they have the unselfishness and passing acumen to hit the open man for rhythm jumpers.
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Re: Jason Kidd's development 

Post#33 » by blazza18 » Tue Oct 4, 2016 9:10 pm

Saw on twitter we averaged around 20 three point attempts last preseason. I'll wait and see on if we take more during real games.
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Re: Jason Kidd's development 

Post#34 » by Prince12 » Tue Oct 4, 2016 9:13 pm

blazza18 wrote:Saw on twitter we averaged around 20 three point attempts last preseason. I'll wait and see on if we take more during real games.


Yeah but to be fair, Copeland was still getting minutes in pre season so there's a fair portion.
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Re: Jason Kidd's development 

Post#35 » by Presence » Fri Oct 7, 2016 10:15 pm

Kidd is apparently talking on the Big 920, I can't tune it now, can anyone share what he says?
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Re: Jason Kidd's development 

Post#36 » by PANDEMONEUM » Sat Oct 8, 2016 5:13 am

Jkidd as a player was one of my all time favorites.
So im willing to give him more time to develop as a HC.

Defense scheme was bad.
10 player rotation in games is bad.
Offense still isnt built around G and J, until I see this change specifically, i wont bump kidd up in the HC ladder.

Sometimes he wouldn't call time outs and let games get out of hand.

Theres been enough reports that say hes a dictator as a HC, and cant handle the assistant coaches speaking against what he wants. He demoted then fired Lawrence, back on the nets.

I will wait and see.
Hes still new and learning
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Re: Jason Kidd's development 

Post#37 » by jakecronus8 » Fri Oct 21, 2016 10:12 pm

So if the Bucks win around 30 games (which is what I think they'll do) is Kidd still guaranteed a job? Sucks to think that the Middleton injury might give him another free pass.

If Zanik is really going to be the guy, he should be able to pick his own leadership.
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Re: Jason Kidd's development 

Post#38 » by Dobber-16 » Sat Oct 22, 2016 4:12 am

jakecronus8 wrote:So if the Bucks win around 30 games (which is what I think they'll do) is Kidd still guaranteed a job? Sucks to think that the Middleton injury might give him another free pass.

If Zanik is really going to be the guy, he should be able to pick his own leadership.


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Re: Jason Kidd's development 

Post#39 » by buckbeer » Sat Oct 22, 2016 5:36 am

M-C-G wrote:For reference, here is Kidd's letter to fans, which I thought was pretty cool and frankly, bought him more time from me.

A BLUEPRINT TO OWNING THE FUTURE
Posted: May 17, 2016
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It’s been about a month since our season came to a close here in Milwaukee, and when you look at our year on paper and in the standings, it’s easy to just say, “The Bucks took a step back.”

Spoiler:
But from inside our organization, we see things differently. We saw a lot of progress by a talented young team.

When we start a new season, we always try to use the past as a measurement. How can we improve? Can we do more than what we did last season? We obviously didn’t do as much last season as we did the year prior, when we made it to the postseason.

But it’s important to understand when you make that comparison that we’re talking about two different teams. We weren’t a young team the year before. We were a veteran group. When we took those veterans away, we had a roster of guys who hadn’t learned how to win in this league alone, without the help of veteran leadership. I still thought they did a really good job of competing on a nightly basis. So looking at it that way, we took a step going forward.



Experience is big, and having both experiences—going to the playoffs last year and missing them this year—is going to be valuable for our core guys going forward. It’s not easy to make the playoffs. You have a lot of talented teams and a lot of talented individuals in this league, who all want to win. It takes a team to win, and we’re developing that.

We all would have liked our record to be better, but it wasn’t, and we had to keep fighting. And that’s what this group did, no matter who was playing. For us, it became about trying to get better on a nightly basis. When things aren’t going the way you hope over the course of a season, you have a revision of goals. Goals can change throughout the week, week-to-week, or month-to-month.

If your record isn’t what you thought it could be, you have to ask, “What can we do as a team?”

POINT GIANNIS
With that being said, as the season went on and the playoffs became something that was out of reach, we started trying some different things.

We put Giannis Antetokounmpo at the point guard position, and I had him handle the ball for the second half of the season. That worked out very well and we all thought he did a really good job. Giannis took a step forward in terms of understanding how to run a team. It’s not an easy thing to learn, and he’s going to continue getting better.

It was something we’d actually been thinking about for a while, since I became head coach of the Bucks. We tried it in training camp and preseason that first year, and it didn’t really work out. But we came back to it, and it helped him. He was engaged on both ends of the floor. It got him in the open court, which highlights his natural abilities. One of his strengths is being able to find guys, and he did a really good job with that.



Being able to see the floor the way that he does makes the game easy. It makes it exciting for his teammates because they all know they have a chance of getting the ball. Being as tall as he is, he has so many natural advantages. His skill set —to be able get into the paint and finish— puts a lot of pressure on a defense.

There are still plenty of things he has to learn, and hopefully, as a point guard myself, I can help him understand game management—the importance of time and score, and just the little things it takes to be a good point guard.

But he’s in a good position just being the way he is. His competitiveness, his willingness to work, those things tell me this is going to be fun. He works extremely hard, he puts a lot of time into the game. He’s a competitor. He wants to win and he wants to be great.

It’s just a matter of time before he’s an All-Star on a consistent basis.

ALL-STAR POTENTIAL
Another player on our roster with All-Star potential is Khris Middleton. He got off to a slow start, but after a couple of months of feeling things out, he started to play at a high level. He had a stretch this season where he was playing at an All-Star level, and the numbers he was putting up were right there with some of the top guards in the league.



He has a tremendous understanding of the game, and his shooting ability is excellent. But he’s more than just a shooter. He’s really a dynamic player, being a bigger guard who is able to post up and play inside and out. And this season, he really improved in terms of his playmaking skills and showed that he’s able to find the open guy and deliver the pass.

So hopefully, he has a great summer, and is going to be ready to play and be consistent at that level going into next season. For him and for everybody, the key is being consistent. That is one of the hardest things to do for a young player in this league for 82 games. It’s truly a marathon.

I thought by the end of the year, Khris was getting closer and closer to that level of consistency on a nightly basis.

The same can be said, I think, of Jabari Parker. After working his way back from a devastating injury, he really showed us what he is capable of down the stretch. The important thing to remember is that last year was basically his rookie season. His first year was cut short with the knee injury, and coming back from that, it took him some time to gain his confidence back early on.

After the All-Star break, he was a different player, a different person.



You could see his confidence skyrocket. With Giannis playing the point, you could see that both their confidence levels had taken off, and that they could play really well together. Just playing this whole season at a high level was a milestone for Jabari. Being able to play that many games is a lot different at this level than it is at college, and he did a really good job of coming back from his knee injury, playing in a majority of the games, and ended the season playing some of his best basketball.

He’s a winner. He wants to win. He wants to do the right thing—not just score the ball but find a teammate, make a play for a teammate. His work ethic is tremendous as well. He’s another guy who spends a lot of time in the gym, playing and working on his game.

FROM FAWNS TO BUCKS
Now it’s our job to continue to develop and put Giannis, Khris and Jabari in position to have continued success. We understand and value the fact that we have a strong young core, even beyond those three players.

We got a chance to see Rashad Vaughn get more minutes and make some progress. Tyler Ennis played more and played very well, Miles Plumlee took a big step forward for us, being able to start for a while and then also coming off the bench for us.

The thing that stands out about Miles, aside from the fact that he has great athletic ability, is his work ethic and commitment to the team. Playing behind Moose and John, he wasn’t getting much playing time early and he could have let that get to him. But he kept coming to work ready to contribute every day, being a true pro, working on his game and being patient. He worked hard and earned an opportunity, and then he took full advantage of that when it came his way. He is someone we can hopefully bring back to help us again next season.



It was sort of the same thing with Tyler. He wasn’t getting much of a chance to contribute early on, but we had a lot of injuries at the guard position. He took advantage of his time on the floor when it came, and we really saw him take a step forward.

Those two guys are a blueprint of being patient and being true pros, and continuing to work on their game. It always works out if you’re just patient and you do the right thing, and those two did all season. With some of the injuries, they took full advantage of their playing time. As a coach, it’s huge to have guys like that on your roster, who can show patience and come to work every day. And when you call on them, they respond in a positive way. That’s important for our whole team, not just for the coaches to know, but for the players to be aware of as well. When you have guys like that who you can rely on when things get tough, it’s really big.

Another guy who we were really able to rely on was Greg Monroe.

Moose was really stable and consistent for us throughout the year, and he was a big reason why we were the No. 1 team in the league scoring in the paint. We know we can lean on him if we need to. He wants the ball and we can work through him in the post, and he really helped us throughout the year. For all of our guys, that was their first year playing with Moose, so there was a learning curve. We’re only going to get better over time. With posting Moose and playing through him in the paint, our interior is very good.

Our next step is to be able to do that, and have a balance with shooting the three, too. That’s where the game has gone, and that’s where we need to go. Right now, we’re at our best in transition. Being able to score the ball in transition, make a play for a teammate, sacrificing, maybe passing up a shot to get a better shot—that’s our identity offensively. And then defensively, getting deflections, steals, and rebounds, and being able to start the break, that’s where our strength is.



Now, it’s about adding that long-range shot. The guys are going to work on their games this summer to get better. And with time, we’re going to become a better team. We understand that just one or two guys can’t do it, that we need everyone to help win because it’s hard to win in this league with just one guy. We think with everyone playing a lot of minutes together down the stretch and getting some rhythm, they’re only going to get better as time goes on.

MY OFFSEASON
While the players are working on their game, I’ll be doing the same. I just finished my third year as a coach, and it has been a learning experience from day one: Learning how to be patient and to teach young players, understanding how hard it is to win in this league as an organization.

I’m always looking to get better, to see what I can do to help our team to reach our goals. One of the things I’m doing is going through tape of the season and looking back. I know our defense took a step back, so one of my questions this offseason is, “What can I do to help us get better defensively?” When the guys are on the floor, I want them to be confident that they can achieve their goals defensively. Maybe it’s substituting defensive assignments, maybe it’s offensive play-calling. I’m looking at everything now so I can put my guys in better positions to win.

That’s what the process of summer is for, and then we’ll come back at the beginning of next year with new goals, and see if we can achieve them. Going through the ups and downs, and sharing that same vision, makes you appreciate it that much more when you achieve it. That goes for players, coaches and the front office. They all work really hard to bring the right people into this organization.

John Hammond and those guys have been scouting all year, and will put us in a position as we get closer to the draft and free agency to have a better understanding of who we like, and what we want to do to improve our team.



I think John and I have been a pretty good team together. The things that have been reported about my relationship with him simply aren’t true. He and I have a great relationship. When he has asked for my input, I have given to him, and that’s that. All the speculation about me wanting to be the general manager of the franchise is totally false.

John has done a great job of being the GM here in Milwaukee. I have total respect for what he does for this organization. I understand the success that he’s had, and have enjoyed learning from him. He’s been in this business and been doing it for a long time. He won a championship in Detroit, so he knows what it means and what it takes to build a winner. And because he has also coached in this league, he’s seen it from that side, too. We both come to the office everyday to continue to look at what we can do going forward to get better as a team.

Though we’re working hard in the offseason to find those ways to be better, I’m also enjoying what time I do have out of the office with my wife and our children. The kids are great. They’re in school and are keeping us busy with soccer and baseball. Aside from that, we’re just here enjoying Milwaukee. It’s a lovely place to raise a family.

Physically, I feel great. The surgery I had during the season has helped me feel a million times better. It was something that needed to be done when it was done, and Dr. Su did a wonderful job with it. The rehab has been great, so I have had no problems being myself again. With that behind me, I’m ready to continue working toward getting this team better for next year.

We’re all thankful for Bucks fans who come out and support us every day. We understand that we fell short of our goal, but we will come back better from our experience this past season. We look forward to having you out there at the arena cheering us on.

Just because we didn’t attain our goal last year doesn’t change anything. We’re still reaching for that ultimate goal, and that’s first to make it to the playoffs next season, so we can all enjoy that and play for that gold trophy. The ultimate goal is to win a championship, and we’re going to do everything in our power to win it.

(Story courtsey of JasonKidd.com)


Discuss...


Interesting that there was no mention of MCW in his long letter, speaks volumes that MCW is no longer in the team's plans.

Kidd seems to like Ennis and Monroe and praised them in his letter. Bucks should've traded Vaughn instead of Ennis, they had a glut of PGs at that time so that's probably why Ennis was traded.

In the letter, Kidd mentioned the need to get more long range shooting in the team. The new additions of Delly, Telly, Terry, Brogdon and Snell will greatly help the 3pt shooting and spreading the floor.

Having watched the preseason games, our PG position is much improved, better defence, better passing and better long range shooting, so glad MCW is gone. Brogdon is turning to be a very good 2nd round pick, he's already a better PG than MCW. Our PG rotation of Giannis, Delly and Brogdon should be very good.

Giannis and Jabari looked much improved from last season and will become dominant players for the Bucks this season. Thon looks raw but if he has a consistent jumper, he could help the team this season as a stretch 4 as well as in defence. Snell looks good when he plays against the Bucks, hope he can produce the same level playing for the Bucks.

Very unfortunate about Middleton's injury, but I still think the Bucks should make the playoffs this season, and Middleton will return for the playoff run. The roster is much improved from last season, they just need to play good defence consistently. I like the defence they played in the last preseason game, if they keep playing that solid defence for every game, they have a good chance of making postseason.
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Re: Jason Kidd's development 

Post#40 » by M-C-G » Thu Oct 27, 2016 4:43 pm

Coach Kidd wrote:MY OFFSEASON


I’m always looking to get better, to see what I can do to help our team to reach our goals. One of the things I’m doing is going through tape of the season and looking back. I know our defense took a step back, so one of my questions this offseason is, “What can I do to help us get better defensively?” When the guys are on the floor, I want them to be confident that they can achieve their goals defensively. Maybe it’s substituting defensive assignments, maybe it’s offensive play-calling. I’m looking at everything now so I can put my guys in better positions to win.



CHA: 7 3PM 23 3PA @ 30%
MKE: 3 3PM 16 3PA @ 19%

Mirza FGA 12, 3PA 5
Parker FGA 9, 3PA 1

Both these stat lines are pretty disappointing. Someone has to tell Mirza we don't need him driving to the post anymore than we need Monroe shooting 3 pt shots.

We actually did a much better job holding them from three than I thought, though game flow probably discouraged. Last season we gave up 9.3 3PM on 26.5 3PA @ 35%

Last year we made 5.4 3PM on 15.6 3PA @ 34.5%

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