Should the Bucks GM be in the top 25% as it relates to skillset?

[Baddy Chuck]

He got us our core, whether luck or skill, I'll commend him for that. Thanks for your time Hambone, if you want to stick around as some honorary scout/advisory be my guest.

Now it's time for the next step, surrounding that core with good players who are good fits at relatively cost effective prices ($ or assets). This is where John Hammonds is an ABSOLUTE laughing stock no matters what mandates or restrictions were handed down to him. His track record is hilariously bad.

I don't remember too many around here saying the Bucks did terrible in re-signing Henson, or signing Delly and Telly to FA deals. Monroe's been good in his second season and as much as it blows my mind, even Beasley looks like a great pickup. No one would tell you he did bad in getting Snell for MCW.

Still don't know what the Bucks have in Vaughn and Thon, but Brogdon was one of the best picks in the entire draft.

I thought this team would be trash. But they're .500 and just beat the **** out of the defending champs. If the Bucks make the playoffs without freaking Kris Middleton, would that be enough to get people off his back a bit?

Or is Plumlee just a bridge too far?

He's been here 9 seasons, not one.

[Chuck Diesel]

Find me an exec or GM outside of Philly recently that hasn't given lip service to "Our goal is the playoffs". It means literally nothing. I pointed out the facts: we replaced good veterans from [b]a 38 win team with average or super young players[/b].

Then our best player (one of the most impactful in the entire league) lost his mind.

So you're saying his goal was not the make the playoffs? You going with that steal tank theory?

Even the bolded is a failure in it's self. That summer Hammond tried (& failed) to acquire Jeff Teague, Kyle Korver, Tony Allen & Chase Budinger. Those are just the names that got out. My original point stands, he should not receive any praise for drafting Jabari Parker after falling ass backwards into the worst record in the league/team history.

Yea, in free agency, sometimes players don't choose your favorite team.

Do you guys remember that the Bucks play in Milwaukee?

But the next year when he isn't in charge we land one of the most coveted (at the time) free agents on the market? Whatever. Hammond is an awkward, stuttering hill to die on my man.

[ackypoo]

Yes, you certainly do. Literally an argument that no one is making.

...its literally an argument someone made on the first page.

LITERALLY.

you asshat.

I see "literally" one person that says they put him in the top 25% of GMs in this entire thread (GOS), and everyone else (including myself), view his only strong or "visionary" trait if you will, as his eye for talent in the draft. But by all means, hyperbole and name-calling makes your argument that much stronger, literally.

literally "no one" has turned into "literally one person", and youre still wrong. when you literally point out how people are wrong, like an ****, and you are literally wrong about it, you are literally going to be called an asshat. because you are literally being an asshat.

[Ron Swanson]

...its literally an argument someone made on the first page.

LITERALLY.

you asshat.

I see "literally" one person that says they put him in the top 25% of GMs in this entire thread (GOS), and everyone else (including myself), view his only strong or "visionary" trait if you will, as his eye for talent in the draft. But by all means, hyperbole and name-calling makes your argument that much stronger, literally.

literally "no one" has turned into "literally one person", and youre still wrong. when you literally point out how people are wrong, like an ****, and you are literally wrong about it, you are literally going to be called an asshat. because you are literally being an asshat.

Damn son, somebody needs a timeout. Go back and quote anyone in this thread who says Hammond is a "visionary" GM. I'll wait.

[ReasonablySober]

He got us our core, whether luck or skill, I'll commend him for that. Thanks for your time Hambone, if you want to stick around as some honorary scout/advisory be my guest.

Now it's time for the next step, surrounding that core with good players who are good fits at relatively cost effective prices ($ or assets). This is where John Hammonds is an ABSOLUTE laughing stock no matters what mandates or restrictions were handed down to him. His track record is hilariously bad.

I don't remember too many around here saying the Bucks did terrible in re-signing Henson, or signing Delly and Telly to FA deals. Monroe's been good in his second season and as much as it blows my mind, even Beasley looks like a great pickup. No one would tell you he did bad in getting Snell for MCW.

Still don't know what the Bucks have in Vaughn and Thon, but Brogdon was one of the best picks in the entire draft.

I thought this team would be trash. But they're .500 and just beat the **** out of the defending champs. If the Bucks make the playoffs without freaking Kris Middleton, would that be enough to get people off his back a bit?

Or is Plumlee just a bridge too far?

He's been here 9 seasons, not one.

The roster he inherited had Andrew Bogut and Michael Redd. That's it. Next season Redd broke down and he wasn't allowed to bottom out. I don't know what you expect out of a GM in Milwaukee.

Assembling a core like he has is ridiculously impressive.

Look, I literally couldn't care less if Hammond is fired right now, and it wouldn't have bothered me at any point in the previous 9 years. But Kohl and the Cronnies were around, and for the last three years he's had to deal with more meddling owners and a coach who's doing favors for his agent. So unless you're going to tell me that the Bucks are going to hire a President of Basketball Operations with absolutely 100% power to make roster decisions, I really couldn't give a **** who the GM is.

[MiltownHawkeye]

He got us our core, whether luck or skill, I'll commend him for that. Thanks for your time Hambone, if you want to stick around as some honorary scout/advisory be my guest.

Now it's time for the next step, surrounding that core with good players who are good fits at relatively cost effective prices ($ or assets). This is where John Hammonds is an ABSOLUTE laughing stock no matters what mandates or restrictions were handed down to him. His track record is hilariously bad.

I don't remember too many around here saying the Bucks did terrible in re-signing Henson, or signing Delly and Telly to FA deals. Monroe's been good in his second season and as much as it blows my mind, even Beasley looks like a great pickup. No one would tell you he did bad in getting Snell for MCW.

Still don't know what the Bucks have in Vaughn and Thon, but Brogdon was one of the best picks in the entire draft.

I thought this team would be trash. But they're .500 and just beat the **** out of the defending champs. If the Bucks make the playoffs without freaking Kris Middleton, would that be enough to get people off his back a bit?

Or is Plumlee just a bridge too far?

I agree that the Henson deal was never really worth getting worked up about. If we don't sign Plumlee, thus compounding the issue of having an expensive logjam of backup 5s, I don't think anyone would be complainng about it. It's pretty much in line with what a flawed but occasionally impactful 5 gets paid in this climate. It's the type of deal you give to a young-ish guy hoping he improves and makes it a great contract.

It's hard to say MCW for Snell was some creative move. He bungled the asset originally by taking MCW over that 1st. At a certain point he was going to take whatever 2/3 a team was willing to give him, and Snell is the definition of a "whatever" 2/3. Chicago couldn't wait to rid themselves of Snell either (although they probably miss him more than we miss MCW).

And yes, the Plumlee extension is absolutely a fireable offense in my mind. Thank Hammond for getting us Giannis, Middleton, Brogdon, and maybe Thon, but you can't trust someone with running your team after a move like that. The process was bad, the execution was bad, and the result was horrendous.

[crkone]

Find me an exec or GM outside of Philly recently that hasn't given lip service to "Our goal is the playoffs". It means literally nothing. I pointed out the facts: we replaced good veterans from [b]a 38 win team with average or super young players[/b].

Then our best player (one of the most impactful in the entire league) lost his mind.

So you're saying his goal was not the make the playoffs? You going with that steal tank theory?

Even the bolded is a failure in it's self. That summer Hammond tried (& failed) to acquire Jeff Teague, Kyle Korver, Tony Allen & Chase Budinger. Those are just the names that got out. My original point stands, he should not receive any praise for drafting Jabari Parker after falling ass backwards into the worst record in the league/team history.

Yea, in free agency, sometimes players don't choose your favorite team.

Do you guys remember that the Bucks play in Milwaukee?

Kohl: "Make the playoffs every year"
GM: "OK Let me ask these good FAs if they want to come he.... OK nevermind. I guess we have to overpay. Well, can I use our future 1st round draft picks to get good pla..."
Kohl: "NO!"
GM: "OK. Well is it okay if we just pick up cheaper FAs while we try to play our mid first round and second round talent and maybe plan for the future?"
Kohl: "Let me ask my committee members ......................................."
Kohl: "The committee has prepared a list of FAs you may sign. Oh, and the coach will also determine who we get rid of or target before you"
Kohl: "But you can draft whoever you want! But the coach may want to trade him the following season."
GM: "So I can sign middling players the committee has chosen to contracts they're not worth, trade younger talent because the committee and coach don't want to wait for players to mature, and not be allowed to play younger players or cheaper free agents?"
Kohl: "Here's your millions"
GM: "!!!!!!!!!!"

[Ron Swanson]

Yeah, he got us our core, but I feel we do indeed now need a GM who can negotiate and pull off better trades. I'm fine with moving on from Hammond, which is why I don't understand the frustration with him playing out his last offseason here. If they have an actual succession plan in place and Zanik will be taking over sometime next year, then what is the motivation for firing him? Out of spite?

Um, to prevent him from making any more transactions.

His only two transactions this offseason (MCW for Snell, Ennis for Beasley) seem to be doing pretty well based on early returns. Or are you concerned that he's going to somehow pull off a Tobes for a half season rental of Reddick type blunder?

[MiltownHawkeye]

Yeah, he got us our core, but I feel we do indeed now need a GM who can negotiate and pull off better trades. I'm fine with moving on from Hammond, which is why I don't understand the frustration with him playing out his last offseason here. If they have an actual succession plan in place and Zanik will be taking over sometime next year, then what is the motivation for firing him? Out of spite?

Um, to prevent him from making any more transactions.

His only two transactions this offseason (MCW for Snell, Ennis for Beasley) seem to be doing pretty well based on early returns. Or are you concerned that he's going to somehow pull off a Tobes for a half season rental of Reddick type blunder?

Forgetting about the Plumlee deal already?

[ackypoo]

I see "literally" one person that says they put him in the top 25% of GMs in this entire thread (GOS), and everyone else (including myself), view his only strong or "visionary" trait if you will, as his eye for talent in the draft. But by all means, hyperbole and name-calling makes your argument that much stronger, literally.

literally "no one" has turned into "literally one person", and youre still wrong. when you literally point out how people are wrong, like an ****, and you are literally wrong about it, you are literally going to be called an asshat. because you are literally being an asshat.

Damn son, somebody needs a timeout. Go back and quote anyone in this thread who says Hammond is a "visionary" GM. I'll wait.

am i literally being punk'd?

you just admitted yourself that "literally no one" was actually at least, one person.

is this what you spend your days doing?

[Chuck Diesel]

Yeah, he got us our core, but I feel we do indeed now need a GM who can negotiate and pull off better trades. I'm fine with moving on from Hammond, which is why I don't understand the frustration with him playing out his last offseason here. If they have an actual succession plan in place and Zanik will be taking over sometime next year, then what is the motivation for firing him? Out of spite?

Um, to prevent him from making any more transactions.

His only two transactions this offseason (MCW for Snell, Ennis for Beasley) seem to be doing pretty well based on early returns. Or are you concerned that he's going to somehow pull off a Tobes for a half season rental of Reddick type blunder?

This is true. You know what they say, "It takes a GM nine seasons, four head coaches & a new Bango before he can finally start to hit his stride." I'm more concerned he'd make any move that would fall in line with his around 75% poor transaction record since he's been in Milwaukee.

[Baddy Chuck]

The roster he inherited had Andrew Bogut and Michael Redd. That's it. Next season Redd broke down and he wasn't allowed to bottom out. I don't know what you expect out of a GM in Milwaukee.

Assembling a core like he has is ridiculously impressive.

Look, I literally couldn't care less if Hammond is fired right now, and it wouldn't have bothered me at any point in the previous 9 years. But Kohl and the Cronnies were around, and for the last three years he's had to deal with more meddling owners and a coach who's doing favors for his agent. So unless you're going to tell me that the Bucks are going to hire a President of Basketball Operations with absolutely 100% power to make roster decisions, I really couldn't give a **** who the GM is

Oh come on, he was here 9 seasons. He had more than Redd and Bogut to work with. And the best he could come up with was Stephen Jackson, Richard Jefferson, Corey Magette, Monta Ellis, Drew Gooden, Samuel Dalembert etc etc etc. Again, I understand the crony talk and what not but we have the track record here, I don't think Herb Kohl was singling out the guy that ran into the stands as the "win now" guy he wanted. Hammond has been straight up GARBAGE at building an NBA roster his entire time in the league, including this offseason even though it was more palatable.

Again, commend him for the core. He drafted a boom/bust guy, after trying to trade that pick for Josh Smith, when Kohl "didn't care if he wasted a draft pick", got a second rouond throw in for a guy he tried to extend on multiple occasions and got a great pick on the back of one of the wort rosters in NBA history that he helped piece together to get to the playoffs.

If you want to "not care" be my guest, I'll continue to believe having this guy taking at the grown up table hurts our team moving forward.

[Ron Swanson]

I mean, you guys keep shouting this "9 Seasons" mantra like it's some fool-proof logic every time someone tries to have an honest debate about Hammond's shortcomings and successes. No ****, everyone knows how long he's been here.

Sorry, I don't get TRIGGERED every time someone throws even the slightest bit of praise his way for acquiring the most important player in franchise history outside of Kareem, in addition to Middleton/Jabari.

Especially considering that actually wanting to move on to a different GM, while also not viewing John Hammond as the worst GM in the league aren't in any way mutually exclusive arguments. But whatever, it's what these Hammond threads always seem to devolve into anyways. So **** John Hammond, I guess (am I cool now?)...

[worthlessBucks]

John Hammond...not a good man <gasps> <faints>

[Chuck Diesel]

I mean, you guys keep shouting this "9 Seasons" mantra like it's some fool-proof logic every time someone tries to have an honest debate about Hammond's shortcomings and successes. No ****, everyone knows how long he's been here.

Sorry, I don't get TRIGGERED every time someone throws even the slightest bit of praise his way for acquiring the most important player in franchise history outside of Kareem, in addition to Middleton/Jabari.

Especially considering that actually wanting to move on to a different GM, while also not viewing John Hammond as the worst GM in the league aren't in any way mutually exclusive arguments. But whatever, it's what these Hammond threads always seem to devolve into anyways. So **** John Hammond, I guess (am I cool now?)...

Hah. You having a rough day? It's just Milwaukee Bucks talk my man.

[paulpressey25]

The Bulls are kicking themselves for whiffing on that lottery pick with Valentine when they should have just chosen Brogdon there instead.

The Brogdon pick has been excellent. But this is where Hammond has been a one-step forward, one-step back guy. He hit on Moute but whiffed on Potsie. He hit on trading for John Salmons but then set the team up for a salary cap mess by trading for Maggette.

So he hits on Brodgon but whiffed on Plumlee. This is where Thon is sort of an important tie breaker.

[BroncoBuck]

The Bulls are kicking themselves for whiffing on that lottery pick with Valentine when they should have just chosen Brogdon there instead.

The Brogdon pick has been excellent. But this is where Hammond has been a one-step forward, one-step back guy. He hit on Moute but whiffed on Potsie. He hit on trading for John Salmons but then set the team up for a salary cap mess by trading for Maggette.

So he hits on Brodgon but whiffed on Plumlee. This is where Thon is sort of an important tie breaker.

I'd maybe put Hammond top 10, definitely top 15. The Plumlee signing hasn't looked good at all, but I'd put some of that on Middleton going down putting our offense in a tough spot with most of our buckets coming from Giannis/Jabari drives clogging the paint. The money was still high, but I still feel better with Plumlee than the gamble the Trailblazers made on Ezeli. It's tough to say what Hammond's intentions are vs what the ownership and Kidd want (especially in regards to Monroe i.e. What Hammond is willing to take back in return in a trade vs what they'd want vs who wants to trade him)

To go a step further on the Plumlee/Henson deals we have one guy to a point a finger at (a particular finger at that) Larry Sanders. Hammond had locked up the young Big at a friendly rate, and in return Larry screwed us over. Aging ZaZa was traded, Henson was the guy who knew the system and had shown flashes Playoff Henson (I'm not a pro-Henson guy but he shows up from time to time) of stellar play and was extended, and then Miles came to town in a deal that many rightfully point out was absolutely awful. Miles showed he fit with our core and earned an overpay. One of these two don't get deals if not for Larry…

Hammonds worst move was Drew Gooden. I get what he was going for with the Bogut/Gooden tandem, but Gooden was a journeyman for a reason (wasn't it his first multi-year contract?)

I hated the OJ deal from day 1, but I understood that we were banking on him showing some of that potential he flashed in high school.

Tobias trade didn't bother me. Hammond picked him based on expectations he would continue to grow (wasn't he the youngest player in the draft?) and he never really did, instead he was stuck in a rut as a tweener who couldn't get minutes on an average team. JJ was/is a much better player. It'd be interesting to know if Hammond had a plan to move one of Jennings/Ellis and ownership nixed it (Jennings/Ellis were the face of the franchise at the time so I wouldn't doubt Kohl would've been reluctant to move one).

[Superfito]

Honestly the way Giannis is trending that pick alone solidifies Hammond in near legendary status. That is the best draft pick in the history of WI pro sports and it's not even close, right? One of the best NBA picks ever, period, if it plays out like this? I don't understand some of Hammond's deals as much as everyone else on here, but I think it's time as Bucks fans, now that we finally have our apparent savior, to enjoy the ride a little bit. We got what we've always wanted, and possibly even more.

[Chuck Diesel]

The Giannis pick was great. It looks like it'll be one of the best draft picks of all time. Seriously, kudos to Hammond & the scouting staff. For me, how good Giannis is/can become heightens the importance of a quality decision maker in the front office.

[MiltownHawkeye]

Honestly the way Giannis is trending that pick alone solidifies Hammond in near legendary status. That is the best draft pick in the history of WI pro sports and it's not even close, right?

I mean, there is this one guy that is pretty good at throwing a football around.