ATL - Post Trade Deadline Edition

[tydett]

For me, it comes down to this. Either:

A) Russ' supporting cast isn't actually all that bad (sure, not a playoff team in the West), and while Russ is incredible, they still only got the 6th seed.

or

B) Sam Presti is actually a horrible GM since he assembled the **** around Russ, and has botched just about everything outside of drafting KD, Russ, and Harden in consecutive Top-5 years.

I tend to think Presti isn't actually all that bad, and so I favor Harden over Westbrook because of getting more wins.

[Ron Swanson]

As someone who's never really even particularly liked Westbrook as a player or personality, I'm baffled by the amount of unwarranted hate he gets for having one of the most impressive regular seasons of all-time. What he does in the playoffs is completely irrelevant.

Unwarranted?

Yes, when you have to go into excruciating detail to nit-pick a guy who posted a 30+ PER year, led the league in scoring while shooting above average efficiency, and posted the highest BPM and VORP ever while leading his team to nearly 50-wins, it's completely unwarranted, and biased criticism.

I'm simply not arguing with people about it anymore. If anyone seriously objects and says that what he just accomplished wasn't an "all-time great season" in the history of basketball, I'm ignoring you and assuming you either have a bull **** agenda to push, or you just can't for some reason appreciate the game of basketball.

[stellation]

I'd like to think that the selection of President of Basketball Operations in Orlando somehow was based on determining who of the candidates drinks Sprite.

[blazza18]

I hate when they essentially give an award out as a "make up call" for a player supposedly being snubbed in prior years, and I fear that they're going to do it with Draymond and give him DPOTY. There's just no way you can make an argument that he's been a more impactful defender than Gobert this season. None.

I mean there's a ton of reasons why Draymond's been just as good or better.

I'm all for either of guy winning but to discount want Draymond's done is total horse ****.

[Prince12]

I hate when they essentially give an award out as a "make up call" for a player supposedly being snubbed in prior years, and I fear that they're going to do it with Draymond and give him DPOTY. There's just no way you can make an argument that he's been a more impactful defender than Gobert this season. None.

I mean there's a ton of reasons why Draymond's been just as good or better.

I'm all for either of guy winning but to discount want Draymond's done is total horse ****.

I'll discount it all day but I'll admit it's just cause I think he's a complete dick.

[blazza18]

I'll discount it all day but I'll admit it's just cause I think he's a complete dick.

You're Steve Kyler aren't you?

[Prince12]

I'll discount it all day but I'll admit it's just cause I think he's a complete dick.

You're Steve Kyler aren't you?

I'll take his job sure.

[M-C-G]

We're talking about the MVP race. It's a regular season award and has nothing to do with playoff performance. Should Steph Curry not have gotten the MVP the last two years because he struggles in the playoffs? How is this even an argument?

My comments aren't related to mvp, more the player so yeah, I agree playoffs don't need to be considered.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Prez]

This notion that people are voting for Westbrook because of a couple extra rebounds for the triple double continues to be comical. People are voting for Westbrook because he's carrying a team that just a lost an MVP to just 8 less wins than last year. Because he's unquestionably a massively impactful player by almost every metric available. Because contrary to popular belief, he's been insanely clutch this year.

I don't see that argument given that Harden carried I would say at best an equal roster to the third best record in the league. You really think Westbrook would win over him if he didn't get the triple double record and average?

The Rockets and Thunder rosters aren't comparable. The Rockets are +4 points per 100 possessions with Harden off the floor. Harden isn't carrying anything. He's a great player on a really respectable team.

I'm not saying Russ would win if he didn't have the trip dub average. Just that generalizing that voting for him is because of that is flat out wrong. There's plenty of reasons to vote for Russ besides that.

[Prez]

It may be irrelevant to you, but I see a guy that is a chucker, I see a guy that his teammates go out of their way to let him get rebounds, I see a guy that come playoff time, I don't know if his role wins you many games when they matter most. If he shows me that this ridiculous usage and ridiculous way his teammates bend over to give him these gaudy stats and they can still win, then I am I willing to re-evaluate. So yeah, it is relevant to me.

The dude just carried the team to the playoffs and won just 8 less games after losing an MVP and supposedly their best player. This added requirement that he has to dominate and make a deep run to somehow validate his praise is just ludicrous. He's already proven that he's a winning player.

If it bothers you, don't hold him to the same standard. I think the "bums" on the that team are way better than they are made out to be, I think his insanely high usage style of play and let's face it, stat padding may actually be holding the team back from being better, and I think come playoff time, it may be evident. But what I am saying is that if I am wrong (and they make it further than the first round or two) I would re-evaluate my opinion.

So I am saying basically the opposite of every real gm argument, that I am willing to consider and admit that I am wrong...weird people would have such a problem with that, given they get bounced in the first round and I doubt I will hear many people start to draw the conclusion he is a stat whore and maybe the way he is being used isn't really that great for the team and their success. We will just hear how he had to do everything on his own and everyone else let him down.

Also, the underlined are your words, not mine.

They literally have one other guy on the roster who can kinda handle the ball and do some stuff off the dribble. This notion that Westbrook does too much is absolutely ridiculous. We have an entire season's worth of data pointing to the Thunder being atrocious when Westbrook is off the floor. And no, one game against the Timbertanks doesn't change that.

[LuessiT]

The dude just carried the team to the playoffs and won just 8 less games after losing an MVP and supposedly their best player. This added requirement that he has to dominate and make a deep run to somehow validate his praise is just ludicrous. He's already proven that he's a winning player.

If it bothers you, don't hold him to the same standard. I think the "bums" on the that team are way better than they are made out to be, I think his insanely high usage style of play and let's face it, stat padding may actually be holding the team back from being better, and I think come playoff time, it may be evident. But what I am saying is that if I am wrong (and they make it further than the first round or two) I would re-evaluate my opinion.

So I am saying basically the opposite of every real gm argument, that I am willing to consider and admit that I am wrong...weird people would have such a problem with that, given they get bounced in the first round and I doubt I will hear many people start to draw the conclusion he is a stat whore and maybe the way he is being used isn't really that great for the team and their success. We will just hear how he had to do everything on his own and everyone else let him down.

Also, the underlined are your words, not mine.

They literally have one other guy on the roster who can kinda handle the ball and do some stuff off the dribble. This notion that Westbrook does too much is absolutely ridiculous. We have an entire season's worth of data pointing to the Thunder being atrocious when Westbrook is off the floor. And no, one game against the Timbertanks doesn't change that.

That is due to the team having no good offense players or creators bar Westbrook and Kanter. Maybe Abrines. Roberson, Adams, Grant, Sabonis and Abrines can't create their own shot and Oladipo is mediocre at that. Of course if you pull Westbrook, that team is ****. If they had lets say Ish Smith on the roster, the stats would look better.

[Prez]

If it bothers you, don't hold him to the same standard. I think the "bums" on the that team are way better than they are made out to be, I think his insanely high usage style of play and let's face it, stat padding may actually be holding the team back from being better, and I think come playoff time, it may be evident. But what I am saying is that if I am wrong (and they make it further than the first round or two) I would re-evaluate my opinion.

So I am saying basically the opposite of every real gm argument, that I am willing to consider and admit that I am wrong...weird people would have such a problem with that, given they get bounced in the first round and I doubt I will hear many people start to draw the conclusion he is a stat whore and maybe the way he is being used isn't really that great for the team and their success. We will just hear how he had to do everything on his own and everyone else let him down.

Also, the underlined are your words, not mine.

They literally have one other guy on the roster who can kinda handle the ball and do some stuff off the dribble. This notion that Westbrook does too much is absolutely ridiculous. We have an entire season's worth of data pointing to the Thunder being atrocious when Westbrook is off the floor. And no, one game against the Timbertanks doesn't change that.

That is due to the team having no good offense players or creators bar Westbrook and Kanter. Maybe Abrines. Roberson, Adams, Grant, Sabonis and Abrines can't create their own shot and Oladipo is mediocre at that. Of course if you pull Westbrook, that team is ****. If they had lets say Ish Smith on the roster, the stats would look better.

But they don't..that's the point.

[LuessiT]

They literally have one other guy on the roster who can kinda handle the ball and do some stuff off the dribble. This notion that Westbrook does too much is absolutely ridiculous. We have an entire season's worth of data pointing to the Thunder being atrocious when Westbrook is off the floor. And no, one game against the Timbertanks doesn't change that.

That is due to the team having no good offense players or creators bar Westbrook and Kanter. Maybe Abrines. Roberson, Adams, Grant, Sabonis and Abrines can't create their own shot and Oladipo is mediocre at that. Of course if you pull Westbrook, that team is ****. If they had lets say Ish Smith on the roster, the stats would look better.

But they don't..that's the point.

Yeah but it shouldn't be a plus for Westbrook that a roster built around Westbrook sucks without Westbrook.

[Prez]

That is due to the team having no good offense players or creators bar Westbrook and Kanter. Maybe Abrines. Roberson, Adams, Grant, Sabonis and Abrines can't create their own shot and Oladipo is mediocre at that. Of course if you pull Westbrook, that team is ****. If they had lets say Ish Smith on the roster, the stats would look better.

But they don't..that's the point.

Yeah but it shouldn't be a plus for Westbrook that a roster built around Westbrook sucks without Westbrook.

Putting terrible spacing and shooting firepower around a slashing guard and making his backup Semaj Christon is building around him?

[AussieBuck]

You dudes are arguing past each other

[FlagsFlyForever]

As someone who's never really even particularly liked Westbrook as a player or personality, I'm baffled by the amount of unwarranted hate he gets for having one of the most impressive regular seasons of all-time. What he does in the playoffs is completely irrelevant.

Unwarranted?

Yes, when you have to go into excruciating detail to nit-pick a guy who posted a 30+ PER year, led the league in scoring while shooting above average efficiency, and posted the highest BPM and VORP ever while leading his team to nearly 50-wins, it's completely unwarranted, and biased criticism.

I'm simply not arguing with people about it anymore. If anyone seriously objects and says that what he just accomplished wasn't an "all-time great season" in the history of basketball, I'm ignoring you and assuming you either have a bull **** agenda to push, or you just can't for some reason appreciate the game of basketball.

You don't need to go into "excruciating detail", you just need to watch his games and it becomes clear that Westbrook isn't as good as his stats. I don't consider myself a Westbrook hater. Once upon a time I was arguing that I liked him better than pre-injury Derrick Rose. But now the Westbrook love has gone too far. His stats are out of this world and you can't take that away from him. There is nobody I would rather have on my fantasy team. He is also one of the most exciting players in the league to watch. But it's difficult for me to reward a guy by saying it was one of the greatest seasons eveer or even saying he's the MVP because of his statistically historic season when he is clearly padding his stats and many times hurting his team with his play.

The Thunder have a very good supporting cast surrounding Westbrook and they are 14-2 this season when Westbrook's usage rate is below 34.5 and only 7-12 when his usage rate is higher than 48. Harden doesn't have any games with a usage over 48 but the Rockets are 15-3 when Harden's usage is 39.3 or higher. The Spurs are 13-3 when Kawhi's usage is over 35. The Cavs are 6-0 when LeBron's usage is over 36. Leading the league in scoring looks nice but shooting 24 times per game isn't helping the team when your eFG% is 0.476 (league average is 0.514). 10.4 assists per game looks great until you realize that Eric Bledsoe is the only player in the top 25 of assists with a worse assist/turnover ratio than Westbrook. Do I even need to say anything about his rebounding or his defense? You can watch this video.

Triple doubles be damned, all I care about is how good a player is and I do not view Westbrook as a top 5 player. If saying Westbrook isn't a top 5 player makes me a Westbrook hater then so be it. I think people care too much about stats. James Harden or LeBron James would average a triple double if they sacrificed wins to pad their stats like Westbrook does and we shouldn't penalize them because they play smarter.

[Xanadu]

Jabari Parker, Henson and our 1st for Carmelo Anthony and Knick's first. Its a interesting thought anyway. I would freak out if we actually did that trade but hey food for thought. Carmelo has a late career resurgence playing second to Giannis becoming a highly efficient offensive star. While Giannis hides his flaws and tries hard enough on d that we knock LeBron off next year. Would make for some great story lines.

[LuessiT]

Jabari Parker, Henson and our 1st for Carmelo Anthony and Knick's first. Its a interesting thought anyway. I would freak out if we actually did that trade but hey food for thought. Carmelo has a late career resurgence playing second to Giannis becoming a highly efficient offensive star. While Giannis hides his flaws and tries hard enough on d that we knock LeBron off next year. Would make for some great story lines.

This years Knicks first? Sure.

[Baddy Chuck]

Jabari Parker, Henson and our 1st for Carmelo Anthony and Knick's first. Its a interesting thought anyway. I would freak out if we actually did that trade but hey food for thought. Carmelo has a late career resurgence playing second to Giannis becoming a highly efficient offensive star. While Giannis hides his flaws and tries hard enough on d that we knock LeBron off next year. Would make for some great story lines.

I don't think that package even gets you the Knicks pick alone.

[worthlessBucks]

Hennigan sealed his fate awhile long ago. Knew that white board wouldn't matter much