PG Thread (Raptors - GAME 2) - Bucks head to Milwaukee tied up.

[juju14]

The closing lineup is simple. Everybody complicating things. Bragton,Snell,Middleton,Giannis, and Thon. Demar just raused up against Bragton because he was way taller. Snell and middleton should of took Lowry and Demar in the clutch. Bragton on the spot up 3 pointers. Thon on Ibaka because he would be wiide open id monroe plays

[sdn40]

The problem with the final lineup with no inside presence is that you made yourself easy to guard. Five guys standing at the 3 point line with no real slashers to threaten. Toronto has guys to try that. Sure Middleton or Giannis could iso, but that wasnt working well and Toronto could help. Middleton and Giannis are not DeRozan when it comes to that type of play. Toronto also didnt do any ridiculous hedging, so you weren't going to get them out of position. Passing the ball back and forth 30 feet from the basket threatens nothing. Dribbling for 15 seconds before forcing a drive into 3 guys isn't smart either. We have to have an inside guy creating passing angles and movement and screens and lanes. I'm stunned.

I think you're looking at it wrong. No, the Bucks aren't good when they go iso heavy, but that's only true from the perimeter. They're at their best when they work their action from the elbows, with the goal of getting mismatches in the post. You want Monroe, Giannis, or Middleton working on the block with multiple shooters around the perimeter. If you let Giannis or Middleton work with ten feet from the hoop with four shooters around them, it's gonna lead to quality shots.

Maybe I didnt explain it well enough but that was my point. We didn't have that at the end of the game. We had 5 guys standing at the 3 point line and nothing in the paint to ease the tension and promote positive movement. Monroe needed to be in the lineup IMO

[har13]

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It would be really easy for someone to say ... Well the Bucks can't POSSIBLY play any better. Maker isn't that good and he gave way more than he should have been able .... And Giannis was getting superstar treatment from the officials and the number of calls that were missed that were immediately followed by a timely Milwaukee bucket was crazy (11 if you weren't counting).

Ok better sit down and watch the game without your Raptors eyeglasses, if you can't no need to come here and speak about the refs. YOu over there always complaining about refs, i don't know what they did to you before but if you see that the refs are helping the Bucks just stop and go cry with your friends..you lose all your reliability.

if you are not happy with the 55-45 the refs are giving you and you want more then sorry, they double and 3double Giannis all game long and played psysical (hard) against him and he only took 7 fts and you speak about superstar calls? sorry he is not a little bitch like your "assassin" and he takes the hits like a man without crying..go home friend.

SMALL example.

End of 4th. Lowry is guarding Giannis and bodying him. Gianni is frustrated he can't separate. He turns over his right shoulder and extends his shoulder and off arm, shoving Lowry to the ground.

A CLEAR textbook charge. A bucket there would have tied the game I believe but the ball didn't go in. Plays like that are ridiculous.

A player known for being a great defender earns the charge and still doesn't get the respect on the call.

Well of course its a foul, i mean when the most Raptors fans saw fouls on Giannis when he played physical against JV sure, of course its a foul when you believe they played Giannis physical but n the other end Bucks were only fouling, of course it was a foul because you only shot 25 fts and not 33 like the first game and we shot 19 fts and not only 15 like the first game, of course its a foul because big guys can't even touch small guys because they are stronger than them, of course its a foul when you give a tech to Giannis because he celebrate a block and not the same to Ibaka for the same reason or 2 and 3 tech to Lowry for attacking the refs and our players because they were physical, yeah i know its easy for the fans to believe the crying man and not the guy who take the hits like a man..sure.

You can still go to the Raptors board and cry like your star does for the refs and most of your fans support you, dosn't mean its true tho, you only see what you want to see friend.

[Licensed to Il]

I felt the refs were not going to let Milwaukee win that game, and I don't complain about that kind of stuff here often. From start to finish, there were just a ton of off ball fouls, no calls when we took it to the hoop (for example, Ilbaka's monster block on Giannis in the 4rth was predicated by a huge collision in to his wrist), and bail outs for the Raptors. I'm not saying the Bucks deserved to win, tip of the hat to the Raptors, but it just felt like an uphill climb all game long.

I hope that we get an officiating advantage the next few games to even things up.

[SirChurros]

That was not a "textbook charge" on Giannis. That was a textbook flop by Lowry. Give me a break.

[Perishable517]

Also let him bump and point his finger in guy's face without getting a T.

#banthecharge

But yet, in game 1, Giannis gets a tech for pumping his fist after a block, away from the player whom he blocked (so, so viciously).

[DingleJerry]

I felt the refs were not going to let Milwaukee win that game, and I don't complain about that kind of stuff here often. From start to finish, there were just a ton of off ball fouls, no calls when we took it to the hoop (for example, Ilbaka's monster block on Giannis in the 4rth was predicated by a huge collision in to his wrist), and bail outs for the Raptors. I'm not saying the Bucks deserved to win, tip of the hat to the Raptors, but it just felt like an uphill climb all game long.

I hope that we get an officiating advantage the next few games to even things up.

Overall I have no complaint on refs in this series so far. officiating is very hard with so many calls that can go either way but have to be decided in a split second. some go your way, some don't. Overall I don't think the scales have tilted one way or the other yet.

[GBPackers47]

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It would be really easy for someone to say ... Well the Bucks can't POSSIBLY play any better. Maker isn't that good and he gave way more than he should have been able .... And Giannis was getting superstar treatment from the officials and the number of calls that were missed that were immediately followed by a timely Milwaukee bucket was crazy (11 if you weren't counting).

Ok better sit down and watch the game without your Raptors eyeglasses, if you can't no need to come here and speak about the refs. YOu over there always complaining about refs, i don't know what they did to you before but if you see that the refs are helping the Bucks just stop and go cry with your friends..you lose all your reliability.

if you are not happy with the 55-45 the refs are giving you and you want more then sorry, they double and 3double Giannis all game long and played psysical (hard) against him and he only took 7 fts and you speak about superstar calls? sorry he is not a little bitch like your "assassin" and he takes the hits like a man without crying..go home friend.

SMALL example.

End of 4th. Lowry is guarding Giannis and bodying him. Gianni is frustrated he can't separate. He turns over his right shoulder and extends his shoulder and off arm, shoving Lowry to the ground.

A CLEAR textbook charge. A bucket there would have tied the game I believe but the ball didn't go in. Plays like that are ridiculous.

A player known for being a great defender earns the charge and still doesn't get the respect on the call.

Complain about the refs on your own board. We all watched the same game you did. Guess what? Just like Toronto, Milwaukee had missed calls too. You just probably fail to acknowledge that because your team is "perfect."

If you want to talk basketball, you are more than welcome to have a productive conversation here, but you can GTFO if you're just going to give your bias reasons on why the refs "Hate Toronto."

[Apollo64]

Regarding that possession and how critical it was, i thought it'd be a good idea for Kidd to do what we call here in Europe a "handball substitution", sub Monroe in for the better offense, sub back Maker for the defense if the Bucks scored. Bucks missed, but Raps called a timeout anyway, so the substitution could have happened either way.

[buckboy]

.

It would be really easy for someone to say ... Well the Bucks can't POSSIBLY play any better. Maker isn't that good and he gave way more than he should have been able .... And Giannis was getting superstar treatment from the officials and the number of calls that were missed that were immediately followed by a timely Milwaukee bucket was crazy (11 if you weren't counting).

Ok better sit down and watch the game without your Raptors eyeglasses, if you can't no need to come here and speak about the refs. YOu over there always complaining about refs, i don't know what they did to you before but if you see that the refs are helping the Bucks just stop and go cry with your friends..you lose all your reliability.

if you are not happy with the 55-45 the refs are giving you and you want more then sorry, they double and 3double Giannis all game long and played psysical (hard) against him and he only took 7 fts and you speak about superstar calls? sorry he is not a little bitch like your "assassin" and he takes the hits like a man without crying..go home friend.

SMALL example.

End of 4th. Lowry is guarding Giannis and bodying him. Gianni is frustrated he can't separate. He turns over his right shoulder and extends his shoulder and off arm, shoving Lowry to the ground.

A CLEAR textbook charge. A bucket there would have tied the game I believe but the ball didn't go in. Plays like that are ridiculous.

A player known for being a great defender earns the charge and still doesn't get the respect on the call.

Great defender. Textbook charge. You're a funny guy.

[GFreak34]

Giannis shot the big 3 that tied the game to 100.. and that happened on a night that was struggling a bit plus the fact that the refs probably missed about 5 fouls on him in the paint.. the game could have been won easily but overall the team wasn't too focused on key moments.. if the Bucks had a clear head to create a separation the game would end.. One thing is certain, we played the Raps twice in their home court and both times the Bucks were clearly the better team overall.. so, nothing to worry about this series.. Bucks will win it sooner or later.

[msiris]

I felt the refs were not going to let Milwaukee win that game, and I don't complain about that kind of stuff here often. From start to finish, there were just a ton of off ball fouls, no calls when we took it to the hoop (for example, Ilbaka's monster block on Giannis in the 4rth was predicated by a huge collision in to his wrist), and bail outs for the Raptors. I'm not saying the Bucks deserved to win, tip of the hat to the Raptors, but it just felt like an uphill climb all game long.

I hope that we get an officiating advantage the next few games to even things up.

We did not lose because of the refs. We lost because guys other than Giannis could not make a clutch shot. Delly and Brog were 3-10 in the 4th.

[DutchManDanFan]

Regarding that possession and how critical it was, i thought it'd be a good idea for Kidd to do what we call here in Europe a "handball substitution", sub Monroe in for the better offense, sub back Maker for the defense if the Bucks scored. Bucks missed, but Raps called a timeout anyway, so the substitution could have happened either way.

I thought of this as well, but I thought it's not possible in basketball. With many TO's in short time it can be done in the last minute.

[paulpressey25]

See all the debate on the different lineups. Challenge is that all the guys we put on the floor outside of Giannis and Khris offer some type of matchup opportunity for Toronto in some way. Whether Delly, Monroe, Thon, Telly, etc, all have exploitable faults.

[msiris]

See all the debate on the different lineups. Challenge is that all the guys we put on the floor outside of Giannis and Khris offer some type of matchup opportunity for Toronto in some way. Whether Delly, Monroe, Thon, Telly, etc, all have exploitable faults.

I am sorry but even Khris is exploitable as well. On D he does not move as well like he did in the past.

[Bucksfan28]

No one could tell me that Telly's FG% is anything over 0%. I have not seen him make a shot all season. The idea is great with trying to space the floor but right now he's a shooter who can't shoot. It's painful watching him pull-up and knowing it's a wasted possession.

[FrieAaron]

See all the debate on the different lineups. Challenge is that all the guys we put on the floor outside of Giannis and Khris offer some type of matchup opportunity for Toronto in some way. Whether Delly, Monroe, Thon, Telly, etc, all have exploitable faults.

That's true of most players in this league, though, and only one player in that group you mentioned offers pretty much nothing when he's not making shots. And unfortunately post-all-star he's shooting 32% from 3 and 35% overall and has missed all four of his shots in the playoffs so far.

[sdn40]

No one could tell me that Telly's FG% is anything over 0%. I have not seen him make a shot all season. The idea is great with trying to space the floor but right now he's a shooter who can't shoot. It's painful watching him pull-up and knowing it's a wasted possession.

This just proves that a great core is not good enough.
I go back to an Oscar Robertson interview I watched and he credited a roster full of competent veteran bench guys for their success. We are efforting that lately, just have to get the competent part right. I was of the opinion that you filled a bench full of young up and comers. In reality, you only have room for one or two of those. The challenge is to find these guys with still something in the tank cheap enough who can fill a role and buy in. Not an easy thing to do. We are seeing how damaging it can be to be forced to play a guy like Meathead for 9 minutes.
Thats why I disagree with anyone that says we are good to go with Giannis, Middleton, Brogdon, Thon. All it means to me is we are half way there. If a team with Kareem, Oscar, McGlockin, Dandridge, Lucious Allen etc needed a good supporting cast, thats enough proof for me.

[jakecronus8]

The refs weren't anymore terrible than they usually are (which is pretty bad usually) but that goes both ways. Bucks lost because Toronto hit open threes and Kidd is a poor coach with his rotations. No Telly to start the fourth and subbing out Delly for Snell and the Bucks are up 2-0 in my opinion.

I said the winner of game 2 wins the series so ill stick with that. I will say though, Toronto are pretenders as usual. I thought with the moves they made at the deadline they'd have a fighters chance at winning the conference. They are just too mentally weak.

ETA: that offensive stretch where we dribbled the air out of the ball only to throw up garbage at the end of the shot clock twice then the 5 second violation were killer as well.

[Prez]

No one could tell me that Telly's FG% is anything over 0%. I have not seen him make a shot all season. The idea is great with trying to space the floor but right now he's a shooter who can't shoot. It's painful watching him pull-up and knowing it's a wasted possession.

Telly's FG% actually is 0% this series lmao. -12.6 BPM, -10.4 PER, 0 ORTG, -75 net on/off