Incident Involving Mo & Tony Brown

jerrod · Post #61 » by **jerrod** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 5:22 pm

if this is true, how stupid is the coaching staff?

yeah, clearly starting a fight with the teams most vocal leader is going to bring everyone together

Andrew34r · Post #62 » by **Andrew34r** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 5:23 pm

Debit One wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

And my point is that if is defense is worse than Mo's (I'm not debating whether or not he is), then he's pretty much the worst defensive PG in the NBA and by definition could not be the best PG in the league.

Diener is worse than both of them combined.

monitor33 · Post #63 » by **monitor33** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 5:25 pm

Chapter29 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

No doubt.

Last night was strange. He did earn PT last night and didn't receive it.

Perhaps Larry K forgot about him again. Remember earlier in the year when he said he sometimes forgets about players on the bench and was asking his assistants for reminders? Ugh.

This is the quote that haunts me too... I mean, is that not the most obvious sign of not being qualified? If I forgot what an debit and credit meant, and had to ask one my Juniors, I would be fired faster than you can say "incompetent."

Fort Minor · Post #64 » by **Fort Minor** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 5:27 pm

cam2win wrote:I'm going to take this rumor with a grain of salt given the sources are two posters on this forum who have been recently critical of Mo. They may be true but they do seem a far stretch.

MickeyDavis makes 3, and he's definately not europa and press when it comes to Mo. He's probably the most objective fan on this board. So no, this has nothing to do with poster trying to dig up info in order to back their opinions of Mo.

Post #65 » by **paulpressey25** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 5:38 pm

You guys don't have to believe this. But I think there are two issues here.

a) Did this happen? I feel pretty good that it did.

b) Is the coaching staff correct or is Mo correct?
This is the one that is subject for legitimate debate and discussion.

I wouldn't let a strong opinion either way on part "b" affect my ability to believe that part "a" did occur.

That the coaching staff thinks Mo a major issue is nothing new. When all the losing started in late November, Larry K. made a couple public references to the problems starting "at the point of attack" on both offense and defense. But again, reasonable fans can disagree with that premise. But Larry K. did say it.

kebzach · Post #66 » by **kebzach** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 5:43 pm

jerrod wrote:if this is true, how stupid is the coaching staff?

yeah, clearly starting a fight with the teams most vocal leader is going to bring everyone together

I've seen stranger things happen. Though not necessarily planned out.

Fort Minor · Post #67 » by **Fort Minor** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 5:44 pm

Rockmaninoff wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

But, Tony Brown is smart enough to realize that when the defense breaks down at the point, nothing can really be done to save it. The only other putrid defender on the team is CV, the rest are average or Bogut.

With all these so-called "average" defenders, you'd think we'd be better than the bottom 3 of the NBA defensively.

cam2win · Post #68 » by **cam2win** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 5:44 pm

paulpressey25 wrote:That the coaching staff thinks Mo a major issue is nothing new. When all the losing started in late November, Larry K. made a couple public references to the problems starting "at the point of attack" on both offense and defense. But again, reasonable fans can disagree with that premise. But Larry K. did say it.

Then fire coach now because he obviously can't be trusted and is the biggest hypocrite I or any of us have probably ever met.

If coach said that and meant it then why was he playing Mo nearly 48 minutes a game for long stretches. If I'm a coach or manager I sure don't give the most responsibility to a player or employee I deem to be the point of the problem.

Post #69 » by **paulpressey25** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 5:50 pm

cam2win wrote:-= If I'm a coach or manager I sure don't give the most responsibility to a player or employee I deem to be the point of the problem.

It is the dysfunction of the Bucks. Kohl and Harris both have their own agendas....primarily Kohl. He's the guy who fell in love with Redd and later Mo and gave them the big contracts. Both because we didn't have other assets and couldn't let them go to FA, but also because both are good character guys.

Another example would be Bogut. Epi can chime in, but I'm not sure Stotts thought Bogut was not the teams best bet at starting center his rookie year and probably not at starting PF either (think Joe Smith). But I'm not sure Stotts could handle the pressure from Harris and Kohl if the team didn't feature Bogut in some major capacity.

Epi can comment since he's got the inside info there, but I'd doubt Larry K. has the ability to just pull Mo for long stretches after he just received a huge contract from Kohl. And as Epi has noted over the years in other threads, given the alternatives, Mo is our best bet at PG if he can play the way Larry K. wants.

All of this is just a symptom of Kohl not putting one guy clearly in charge as GM who has a consistent philosophy. That leadership void in the front office is killing this team right now.

Fight the Tank · Post #70 » by **Fight the Tank** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 5:53 pm

[quote="paulpressey25"][/quote]

This just screams, "The Bucks are right there with the Knicks in terms of worst franchise in the NBA."

Its really a downer how dysfunctional this thing has gotten. I wish I could find a new NBA team to root for but I grew up on the Bucks....Maybe if Bogut signs elsewhere I could jump on that bandwagon. :nonono:

cam2win · Post #71 » by **cam2win** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 5:57 pm

PP, I completly disagree with your point about feeling obligated to play Mo given the pressure of the contract signing.

Our second most paid player was getting his minutes during mop up time yesterday and our 4th most paid player only plays during mop up time.

Maybe the case is different with Mo, but I don't know why it would. I don't see validating a contract as the reason why a player would get 48 minutes. I find it hard to believe even our franchise is that pathetic.

xTitan · Post #72 » by **xTitan** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 6:00 pm

cam2win wrote:I'm going to take this rumor with a grain of salt given the sources are two posters on this forum who have been recently critical of Mo. They may be true but they do seem a far stretch.

If they are indeed true then Tony Brown has the maturity of a grade school kid. Why call out the "PG play" when it's obvious who you mean. That sounds like a sibling trying to get another in trouble with their parents.

If I were Mo I'd yell back too. The only one who may get a pass on teh defensive end may be Bogut, but he's been burned against some athletic bigs this year.

Maybe this is true about Mo, and maybe I'm defending him when he's wrong. However the Mo I see is one that actually cares and has worked his butt off this year to improve. It can't be easy to be the PG of a team who changes there identity every 2 weeks, all while being asked to be the reincarnation of Oscar Robertson by most of it's fans.

No bias coming from a guy from "Mo-nation"...I am so sick of this wussy attitude....NO ONE on this Bucks team has earned enough respect where they are bigger then being called out by there coaches in front of there peers. I agree with EVERYTHING that Tony Brown said, Mo is definitely trying, I will give you that, but his decision making skills are not great, he can't pass into the post, and he turns the ball over alot.................He also was eaten alive by a guy on a 10 day contract after the warrior game. I have the free league pass this week and have watched alot of games to see how teams handle the pick and roll...no one figths less through a pick then Mo and I have not seen 1 team who switches every time, thats insane! I believe this is 100% what Woelfel was talking about last night. After a late meeting on Friday, I heard just a small portion of GW on WSSP and he said that he believes that either one or both of the guards will be moved in the offseason, this is a big change from his previous stances.

WEFFPIM · Post #73 » by **WEFFPIM** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 6:08 pm

What hasn't been mentioned so far is that why is an assistant coach the one bringing this up and not the head coach? That makes me scratch my head as well, that an assistant coach (and the GM) have noticed something the head coach hasn't picked up on, or fails to address.

paul · Post #74 » by **paul** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 6:11 pm

Umm, am I missing something here? Unless I am I can't believe there are two sides to this argument. I've been a Mo fan, but -

Coaches coach, players shut the hell up and play. If this really happened Mo should be disciplined, very heavily.

Physically attacking a coach for criticizing your perceived poor play. Are you sh**ing me?

By the way, when this allegedly happened, was it before or after his 'pinky sprain' that forced him to sit out? If it was before that I could see that being crap and an 'in house' suspension of sorts.

So let me get this straight, we all whinge that our players don't appear to respect our coach, then this happens and half of us take the players side?

cam2win · Post #75 » by **cam2win** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 6:12 pm

xTitan wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

No bias coming from a guy from "Mo-nation"...I am so sick of this wussy attitude....NO ONE on this Bucks team has earned enough respect where they are bigger then being called out by there coaches in front of there peers. I agree with EVERYTHING that Tony Brown said, Mo is definitely trying, I will give you that, but his decision making skills are not great, he can't pass into the post, and he turns the ball over alot.................He also was eaten alive by a guy on a 10 day contract after the warrior game. I have the free league pass this week and have watched alot of games to see how teams handle the pick and roll...no one figths less through a pick then Mo and I have not seen 1 team who switches every time, thats insane! I believe this is 100% what Woelfel was talking about last night. After a late meeting on Friday, I heard just a small portion of GW on WSSP and he said that he believes that either one or both of the guards will be moved in the offseason, this is a big change from his previous stances.

Maybe their is bias, I think most of us have our clear "biases" on why this team sucks and who to blame.

Maybe it is true Mo was called out, and maybe that is why he didn't play vs Phoenix. And if true then Tony Brown is a coward for not saying Mo's name directly and immature for not confronting Mo privately about it. It's not just Mo or the PG play that is wrong with this team, to single Mo out is rediculous.

I wish they wouldn't switch on pick and rolls too, most teams don't. However it's not just Mo, it's almost everyone on the perimeter. Whether that's the players fault or the coaching staffs fault is debatable.

We do agree, I hope the backcourt is broken up....and I hope it's during the season and not the offseason.

Rockmaninoff · Post #76 » by **Rockmaninoff** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 6:13 pm

WEFFPIM wrote:What hasn't been mentioned so far is that why is an assistant coach the one bringing this up and not the head coach? That makes me scratch my head as well, that an assistant coach (and the GM) have noticed something the head coach hasn't picked up on, or fails to address.

Good cop, bad cop. But, the roles are reversed. I don't know or understand why. Tony Brown for Head Coach?

WEFFPIM · Post #77 » by **WEFFPIM** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 6:14 pm

paul wrote:By the way, when this allegedly happened, was it before or after his 'pinky sprain' that forced him to sit out? If it was before that I could see that being crap and an 'in house' suspension of sorts.

This confrontation brings this back up as well. A pinky sprain on his left hand...his non-shooting hand. I have a feeling a lot of guys can play with that injury and man-up about it.

For the record, I don't think Mo physically attacked Brown, but I think this was all verbal.

Post #78 » by **paulpressey25** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 6:16 pm

BTW...I don't think I would interpret anything with Mo to mean the team is thrilled with Redd right now either. Today it is Mo's turn. Yesterday it was the comments Redd made to the newspaper about how he's a much better player when he has "freedom" or whatever he was saying.

I just don't think the team knows what to do with these two guys. I'm an impatient fan, so I'd like to see a move before all-star break just so we can see what a "post-Mo" or "post-Redd" team might look like before we go on a six-month hiatus for the offseason.

SupremeHustle · Post #79 » by **SupremeHustle** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 6:18 pm

I'm a Mo fan, but to whoever said that Mo doesn't make his teammates better, I have to reluctantly agree. And his defense, yes, it's pretty, pretty bad.

Maybe the Bobby Jackson role would be best for his skill set.

Oh, and while I'm at it, I've seen Conley Jr a few times, and I was dead set against taking him, not because we had Mo, but because I didn't think he'd be that good. I think I was wrong there, too.

I was right about Iraq, though.

cam2win · Post #80 » by **cam2win** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 6:19 pm

paulpressey25 wrote:BTW...I don't think I would interpret anything with Mo to mean the team is thrilled with Redd right now either. Today it is Mo's turn. Yesterday it was the comments Redd made to the newspaper about how he's a much better player when he has "freedom" or whatever he was saying.

I just don't think the team knows what to do with these two guys. I'm an impatient fan, so I'd like to see a move before all-star break just so we can see what a "post-Mo" or "post-Redd" team might look like before we go on a six-month hiatus for the offseason.

Great post and I couldn't agree more. :clap: