J/S: Player and Team Report Cards

[NeedsMoreCheese]

-= original quote snipped =-



It came from the fact that he's been widely talked about as one of the most improved players in the league this year, and yep I was aware his numbers were better. I didn't mean we want him. For some reason Bogut's improvement doesn't matter because the team sucks, just thought I'd find a comparison.

So youre citing a guy whose numbers jumped from
10.1 ppg, 7.8 rpg, 1.1 apg, 1.5 bpg on 45 fg %
to
15.7 ppg, 12.7rpg, 1.9 apg, 2.8 bpg on 48 fg%

which is an improvement of
+5.6 ppg, +4.9 rpg, +0.8 apg, +1.3 bpg +3% fg

Compared to Boguts "improvement" of
+2 ppg, +1 rpg, -0.6 apg, +1.2 bpg, -4% fg


Really? You dont see a huge difference?

[Dags]

I'm not sure why a within season improvement should be sneered at. It was Al Jeffersons post-All Star improvement that got everyone salivating and the T-Wolves willing to do the Garnett trade, and he's continued his production throughout the next season. But, because it's Bogut, a within season improvement should be ignored and only the entire season stats should be examined.

There's often players that make big steps after the AS break and get plenty of love. The Bucks have one that made a big step a month and a half earlier, and so has maintained the form longer than these 'breakouts' and he gets derided. Go figure.

[paul]

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So youre citing a guy whose numbers jumped from
10.1 ppg, 7.8 rpg, 1.1 apg, 1.5 bpg on 45 fg %
to
15.7 ppg, 12.7rpg, 1.9 apg, 2.8 bpg on 48 fg%

which is an improvement of
+5.6 ppg, +4.9 rpg, +0.8 apg, +1.3 bpg +3% fg

Compared to Boguts "improvement" of
+2 ppg, +1 rpg, -0.6 apg, +1.2 bpg, -4% fg


Really? You dont see a huge difference?

Yep I agree Kaman's improvement has been terrific and comfortably outweigh Bogut's (partially because his numbers sucked so much last year), I was actually looking at Bogut's numbers since he was more involved in the offense, given Kaman's numbers didn't jump until he was more involved with Brand going down.

In that case Bogut's improvement would have been more like 4ppg, 1.7? rpg, 1.2 bpg, a pretty reasonable jump.

But I wasn't trying to make this a Bogut vs Kaman debate, merely trying to say that Bogut does deserve some props for his improvement, despite his teams lowly position.

[Epicurus]

Uing the winscore metric, Bogut's productivity improved 5.7% at the end of the year from the middle of the year. Thus I suspect his contribution in the last half was around 10% greater than that of the first half.

[Matt Foley]

Bogut easily a B... that pissed me off.
Plus how are they going to put a bag over the head of Bango in the paper after they ignored that beautiful AP photo of Herb during the protest? argh.. JS

[bogutsdad]

So DrugBust and Mid, when does boguts nov,dev become obsolete? Does he start this season afresh? Or will it still be remembered? I wonder if spurs fans still talk about the bad week duncan had

[bogutsdad]

I agree bogut was a c+ this year, no doubting that. But obviously as it has been stated earlier, the others must of been rated on expectations rather than they're actual season.

[midranger]

To the guy whose location reads "wherever andrew goes,"no part of last season will be referenced by anyone in regard to Bogut when talking about next season.

However, it is foolish to discount a significant portion of last season when talking about last season. As the article in question does.



As for the improvements that Bogut made. Did they improve the team in any tangible way? Did we lose more or less?

That is what really matters. People are way to concerned with Bogut's box scores rather than the final scores.

[Sigra]

My grades and analises:

A-Superstar or franchise player or top 5 at his position
B-Star or diference maker or all-star
C-Solid player but not a diference maker
D-Below average player who should get around 15-20 minutes
E-Bad player who should not be in rotation


ANDREW BOGUT: B

Great defense and good offense. He is not jump shooter. He is not good pick and roll defender. Oh well. He is C. He was great inside at both sides. Bogut had Shaq like season (this Shaq and not Shaq from past) but terrible coach and terrible guards made him look not nearly as good as he was. Coach didn't used him corectly before January and after guards missed shots in Bogut centered offense, coach again turned back to guard oriented offense. In January he was on Duncan level and yes on Bill Walton level as well. Bogut is already 2nd best C at east and should be all-star next year. All of that with great defense. This guy has potential to be A

MICHAEL REDD: C

The guy who killed his coach because he was not shooting as much as he wanted. Evil person and criminal person. Still one of best scorers in NBA (in first 3 quarters) but this year he proved that he must be 1st option at offense or else he will sabotage the entire thing. Still terrible transition defense and horible help defense. One on one defense not as big problem because he usualy defends bad offansive players. Still poor vision and still lack of energy to do many things in many nights. Big problem for this franchise considering his max contract. He is at his best when he has green light to fire whenever he wants, when he play against teams with not so agressive defense at backcourt, when Bucks are down a lot so pressure is not big, in first 3 quarters when pressure is not big. In pressure situations he is bad because he has not focus and energy level to execute in situations like that. Should be first player to be traded without any doubt. Redd can be B but he need coach to kiss his ass like Stotts did for example.

MO WILLIAMS: C

If he is as tall as Redd he would be Redd. But he is not as tall as Redd so coaches try to put him at PG position. It didn't work, doesn't work and will never work. Can he make assist sometimes? Sure he can. Redd can as well. Bogut can too. But that doesn't mean that he is PG. Mo is small SG with attittude problems. Bad combination because his attittude prevent us from playing him from bench and he is small to be starting SG. And he is probably worst backcourt defender in NBA. But the guy think that he is great just like Marbury allways thought that about himself. The tragedy about Mo Williams is that this season it is actually the best Mo we can have. And it is still just C.

CHARLIE BELL: D

Bell has potential to be C level player but this season he was not. I am one of only few who don't blame him for that. I think Bucks Mgmt really offended this guy who is one of only few guys who try at defense year after year. I hope Bell stays with Bucks his entire career.

DESMOND MASON: C

Mason, God bless him, is still solid player. He is not diference maker and therefore he has not potential to be B but he will not hurt you.

CHARLIE VILLANUEVA: D

Can be C but not with this effort and this atittude

YI JIANLIAN: D

Has potential to be B but will have to improve a lot. Otherwise he could be D for his entire career.

BOBBY SIMMONS: D

If healthy he is C without any doubt. But can he be healthy again?

RAMON SESSIONS: Incomplete

Has potential to be solid C IMO.

ROYAL IVEY: D

DAN GADZURIC: E

MICHAEL RUFFIN: E

AWVEE STOREY: E

JAKE VOSKUHL: E

[vlietinho]

^^

* wondering what grade F means if grade E allready is "E-Bad player who should not be in rotation" *

F = F...k up asap?

[bogutsdad]

To the guy whose location reads "wherever andrew goes,"no part of last season will be referenced by anyone in regard to Bogut when talking about next season.

However, it is foolish to discount a significant portion of last season when talking about last season. As the article in question does.



As for the improvements that Bogut made. Did they improve the team in any tangible way? Did we lose more or less?

That is what really matters. People are way to concerned with Bogut's box scores rather than the final scores.

That probably has something to do with half the posters being aussies and that's all they get to see!
Bogut played 51 games last season where he met expectations. Over those 51 games he averaged 17.25pts 11.47reb 2.15blocks and 2.66 assists. However that leaves 27 games where he played below expectations which is way too many. Next year I would think he would hold the 51 game average over the season and cut the bad games in half and then we would certainly have us an all star centre. Where the bad games fall during the year doesn't matter but I think what most people are saying is the second half of the season contain very few bad games compared to the first half of the season which holds promise for next season.

[Sigra]

^^

* wondering what grade F means if grade E allready is "E-Bad player who should not be in rotation" *

F = F...k up asap?

Fixed. Thanks

[bogutsdad]

My grades and analises:

A-Superstar or franchise player or top 5 at his position
B-Star or diference maker or all-star
C-Solid player but not a diference maker
D-Below average player who should get around 15-20 minutes
E-Bad player who should not be in rotation


ANDREW BOGUT: B

Great defense and good offense. He is not jump shooter. He is not good pick and roll defender. Oh well. He is C. He was great inside at both sides. Bogut had Shaq like season (this Shaq and not Shaq from past) but terrible coach and terrible guards made him look not nearly as good as he was. Coach didn't used him corectly before January and after guards missed shots in Bogut centered offense, coach again turned back to guard oriented offense. In January he was on Duncan level and yes on Bill Walton level as well. Bogut is already 2nd best C at east and should be all-star next year. All of that with great defense. This guy has potential to be A

He was a C this year as I don't believe he made a difference nor is he an all star. A lot of his best games came in loses. I think he will become an A but not next season. I believe he will continue to improve and move up to a B next season and then hopefully an A the following season. But I like your optimism

[Sigra]

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He was a C this year as I don't believe he made a difference nor is he an all star. A lot of his best games came in loses. I think he will become an A but not next season. I believe he will continue to improve and move up to a B next season and then hopefully an A the following season. But I like your optimism

I think Bogut was diference maker this year but you can't win with only one diference maker and with such a bad coach and with backcourt sabotaging team.

In my opinion Bucks didn't have A player, had only one B player and only 3 C players. You don't win with only that.