Eliminate the lottery

MajorDad · Post #1 » by **MajorDad** » Tue May 20, 2008 5:52 pm

the NBA doesn't really need a lottery. i realize what the original intentions were when it was first created. it was hoped it would stop teams from tanking their season away. it has failed in preventing teams from doing that.

You can look at the NFL and MLB and NHL and see teams "playing for the future" just as much. they just don't call it tanking in the NFL and MLb. it's called resting your veterans and 85% injured players and giving a look to see what the younger players can contribute to the future success of the team.

I feel like Star trek, the lottery has run its course. it was fun while it lasted, but it no longer fills any need. yes, it's creates attention to the NBA . However, a good play-off series creates as much attention as the lottery drawing show does.

Just go back to the past, and follow the lead other pro sports do. the lottery has proven ineffective in preventing teams from tanking. it's not like it's really helped out the poor or bad teams either. it's more rich teams getting richer than helping out the poor teams.

if we have to weight the %'s so much to help out the worst team win the lottery, why not just give them the first pick and get it over with?

LUKE23 · Post #2 » by **LUKE23** » Tue May 20, 2008 5:54 pm

I agree somewhat, however if you eliminate the lottery all together tanking would be even more blatant than it is now, given that where you finish you are absolutely locked into for draft position.

I don't think it changes that much either way with regards to tanking. The one positive of it would be eliminating all the skepticism and the claims that is rigged, being that there would be no need for the "closed door" lottery proceedings.

RAtheMONsession · Post #3 » by **RAtheMONsession** » Tue May 20, 2008 5:54 pm

the NBA is probably the easiest sport to just tank it at the end of the season on purpose. You can argue it is just as easy in the MLB, but the MLB draft is a million rounds long, and there is never a must have player like there is in the NBA and NFL.

I think the lottery was created to not only gain attention from the fans, but also to avoid the "tanking" at the end of the season that about 10 teams would be doing year in and year out. If there was no lottery, I think there would be more of this even then there is now.

jerrod · Post #4 » by **jerrod** » Tue May 20, 2008 5:59 pm

the only way to get rid of tanking is to do the lottery but give every non playoff team the same number of ping pong balls

LUKE23 · Post #5 » by **LUKE23** » Tue May 20, 2008 6:01 pm

jerrod wrote:the only way to get rid of tanking is to do the lottery but give every non playoff team the same number of ping pong balls

Agreed, and that makes zero sense because the point of any professional sport is to maintain as even of competition as possible, and the teams at the bottom should be rewarded with the higher talent, otherwise the rich just get richer.

I'm fine with how it is now, or going to a straight record way.

BucksRuleAll22 · Post #6 » by **BucksRuleAll22** » Tue May 20, 2008 6:05 pm

The NBA lottery is more or just as exciting as the draft. Theres only 5 starters in the NBA and one player can make a world of a diffrence on a team for along time unlike other sports.

Lottery is fine except I dont trust it. If it was up to me every team should have a chance to move up or get a top pick.

LISTEN2JAZZ · Post #7 » by **LISTEN2JAZZ** » Tue May 20, 2008 6:06 pm

I'm in favor of it because it's fun. I would love to revise it with two rules though to bring a bit more parity:

-Lottery odds are assigned based on rolling 3-year win/loss records
-Winning a top-3 pick removes you from contention for additional top-3 picks for the next two drafts.

This way, teams would only have incentive to tank if they have already been bad for a couple years, in which case it's harder to classify it as tanking. Also, once they win that lottery price, there's a big incentive for them to get better quickly.

jerrod · Post #8 » by **jerrod** » Tue May 20, 2008 6:08 pm

LUKE23 wrote:
I'm fine with how it is now, or going to a straight record way.

i'm cool with the current system, i wouldn't want straight record

the only change i might make is maybe bring the %'s a little closer together.

nuttinbutta Big Dog party · Post #9 » by **nuttinbutta Big Dog party** » Tue May 20, 2008 6:20 pm

While I agree the lottery should be tweaked, it is necessary to prevent tanking in a league where one star player can completely catapult an organization to greatness. In no other sport does a single player have an impact as it does in the NBA.

fam3381 · Post #10 » by **fam3381** » Tue May 20, 2008 6:27 pm

I like Adam's suggestions.

0BobLobLaw0 · Post #11 » by **0BobLobLaw0** » Tue May 20, 2008 6:37 pm

i think 1 player can help an NBA team a lot more than 1 player could help an NFL or MLB team. so tanking would be even worse than what it is now if there were no lottery. but i do think it needs some adjustments.

jerrod · Post #12 » by **jerrod** » Tue May 20, 2008 6:41 pm

i think the only problem with adam's idea, is that, well, a decent number of people have no idea how the current system works and adding more complication to it might suck some of the fun out of it for some people.

Post #13 » by **ReasonablySober** » Tue May 20, 2008 6:44 pm

fam3381 wrote:I like Adam's suggestions.

Same here.

0BobLobLaw0 · Post #14 » by **0BobLobLaw0** » Tue May 20, 2008 6:47 pm

I don't understand why the Bucks can only get certain picks? If it is a true "lottery", wouldnt every pick be available?

jerrod · Post #15 » by **jerrod** » Tue May 20, 2008 6:49 pm

AgainstMe! wrote:I don't understand why the Bucks can only get certain picks? If it is a true "lottery", wouldnt every pick be available?

it is a true lottery

it's a true lottery that selects the 1st, 2nd and 3rd picks.

unklchuk · Post #16 » by **unklchuk** » Tue May 20, 2008 6:57 pm

I'm not much for conspiracy theories in general, but pulling the ping pong balls behind closed doors invites speculation. Doubt the results are fully rigged, but I wouldn't be surprised if David selectively modified the results at times in handing out Stern Justice. It's a handy way of imposing penalties (with the owners knowing quietly) without publicity.

Or of avoiding the highly unlikely result that damages parity or bothers the public.

I criticize the NBA for the current setup. But I'd probably criticize any other option too.

LUKE23 · Post #17 » by **LUKE23** » Tue May 20, 2008 7:01 pm

One of the main reasons I'm against the conspiracy theories is that there is a representative from each team there that witnesses the drawing, and each rep has their list of number combinations in front of them (there are 14 balls in the hopper, four are picked, and that is the number combination, Heat have 250 possible combinations, etc). The reason I know this is that I left the Bucks organization about a month before they got Bogut in 2005, when Skip Robinson was in the room for the Bucks.

Do you think people that could have their job depending on team performance would be OK with the lottery being rigged? I know I wouldn't.

Whiteman · Post #18 » by **Whiteman** » Tue May 20, 2008 7:02 pm

fam3381 wrote:I like Adam's suggestions.

+1

MajorDad · Post #19 » by **MajorDad** » Tue May 20, 2008 7:31 pm

luke - that is part of the current problem. the kings are sending some lucky season ticket holder fan to the lottery. the nets are sending some rap star. i doubt either will pay much attention to the actual mechanics of the ping pong balls coming out of the machine. frankly, i doubt if any of the team's reps pays any attention to the actual mechanics of the balls.

The mechanics of the lottery has been tweeked several times, going from cards to balls and having different %'s. it would appear that no matter how many tweeks are made, there will always be somebody that is not satisfied.

I will agree that gaining the first pick in the MLB and NFL draft isn't as big of a deal as gaining the first pick in the NBA draft. Quality players are often found in each league in later rounds. Corey hart was an 11th round pick. ryan braun was the third thirdbaseman selected in the first round after gordon and Zimmerman. ryan howard was a fifth round pick. but in basketball, the top 5 players are ussually the impact future stars.

i just believe the draft should be to help the bad teams, not reward the mediocre ones with bad coaches who back door into the lottery and then get lucky and get the first pick. I have to believe Wade could have played more games. I also have to believe Seattle knew starting Green and Durant would probably not generate many wins. if the NBA didn't have a lottery, i believe both miami and Seattle would have ended up with about the same record they ended up with. most people also thought the twolves would be bad. So did these teams really tank or just live up to their level of talent?

I don't agree with the idea that if the NBA went back to a straight draft, that more teams would tank. people here have admitted that the bucks have to win a few games to keep attendance levels up. looking at this year, i can only see about 5 teams that would have tanked. and they tanked with the current lottery system in place. What I think would happen if a straight draft was in place is that the bottom feeders would be even worse to ensure their draft spot. i don't believe the standings woud be affected, but we might see a lot more teams with 19 win seasons.

but as has been pointed out in several other threads: teams do have to sell tickets to stay in business. So a team can't tank too many years in a row and expect to maintain a fan base.

LUKE23 · Post #20 » by **LUKE23** » Tue May 20, 2008 7:34 pm

luke - that is part of the current problem. the kings are sending some lucky season ticket holder fan to the lottery. the nets are sending some rap star. i doubt either will pay much attention to the actual mechanics of the ping pong balls coming out of the machine. frankly, i doubt if any of the team's reps pays any attention to the actual mechanics of the balls.

No Reed. That is the representatives that are in front of the camera when the envolopes are unveiled. I'm talking about the representatives from each team that actually WITNESS the balls coming out of the hopper.

For example, Hammond is the guy for the Bucks that will be on camera for the envelopes, but he will not be the same person that is witnessing the lottery (that is probably Horst I'm guessing).