Official Bucks Player Workout Thread

[randy84]

Debit One,

For this team I don't want another guy to take shots. That is already taken care by Redd, Mo, CV, Simmons and sometimes Bogut.

I would much rather have a guy that blocks shots, grabs rebounds and plays defense. Randolph does all of that.

[Buck You]

Debit One,

For this team I don't want another guy to take shots. That is already taken care by Redd, Mo, CV, Simmons and sometimes Bogut.

I would much rather have a guy that blocks shots, grabs rebounds and plays defense. Randolph does all of that.

So what you're saying is you want to draft a hustle/role player with our lottery pick? Aren't those players usually qualified as busts?

[randy84]

I would love to of had Ben Wallace in his prime. It would make more sense to me to try and get a younger version of Ben Wallace, than to trade for an old "non" hustling Ben Wallace with a huge contract.

[Simulack]

He was turnover prone as a freshmen but nearly every scouting report on the guy mentions what a good handle he has for a player his size:

Randolph has a tremendous handle and gets to the basket extremely well off the bounce

Strengths:Ball-handling skills

He appears to be a long way from being a point-forward or anything like that but his ball-handling should be at least adequate enough to play at the 3 spot.

He doesn't currently have 3 point range and his 46% fg percentage isn't great for someone who shot such a limited number of 3's. If we are grooming him as a 3, it will obviously be something he will need to work on. But how big of a deal is that? Odom's been a decent 3/4 hybrid in the NBA and he's always been a pretty poor 3-point shooter (around 30% for his career). Besides, how many more 6-10 guys do the Bucks need shooting 3's (or in Yi's case, shots just inside the 3 point line)?

I'm more concerned about his defensive abilities anyway. His 2.3bpg are very impressive and put him at 28th in the entire NCAA and 3rd among freshmen. But how will that translate to the NBA? Is he quick enough to guard SF's? Strong enough to guard PF's?

If you think he has Tayshaun Prince defensive-type potential, you draft him at 8 regardless of his raw offensive game (which was still good enough for 15.6ppg as a freshmen).

[Buck You]

I would love to of had Ben Wallace in his prime. It would make more sense to me to try and get a younger version of Ben Wallace, than to trade for an old "non" hustling Ben Wallace with a huge contract.

Well that's why I edited my post but anyway, Ben Wallace was undrafted. The real point is, you want a star or a very good player with your lottery pick, that's the point of it. The higher the pick, the better the player is perceived to be. The hustle/role players go in the 2nd round. I don't want to draft a role player with our lottery pick. That's not to say Randolph is a role player, I personally don't know enough about him to call him a role player or not, I was just stating in general.

[Buck You]

Is Randolph in the Andray Blatche mold of skill set?

[europa]

I would be extremely reluctant to make any comparison between Randolph and Lamar Odom. Odom has incredible all-around basketball skills. He really is a terrific talent. He's a PF who can play the wing because he's athletic, has a strong handle and is a terrific passer and facilitator. Again, I didn't see Randolph play a lot but at no point at any time when I did see him did a comparison with Odom come to mind.

[Wise1]

-= original quote snipped =-



Please look at these stats and tell me what makes you think that Randolph can shoot or handle the ball well enough to be an NBA SF.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=36181

Is it the 2 three pointers that he made last season? The .105 three point percentage? The .41 to 1 Assist/TO ratio?

Like me, I'm sure the Bucks don't give a blip whether the kid can shoot three pointers. As far as the turnovers, lets just remember that this is an 18 year old freshman. There's no question that this 18 year old will have to improve across the board, but he did shoot 46.4% from the field, grabbed 8.5 boards, blocked 2.3 shots, averaged a steal a game and has shown on film that he has the "ability" to handle the ball effectively and lead a fast break.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not emphasizing Randolph's deep shooting touch or general offense. I think he's a great fit because of his defensive length and rebounding at the 3. Although 15.6ppg as a freshman isn't too shabby.

I guess I'm as crazy as Hammond and Skiles who did bring the kid in with other small forward prospects.

[Wise1]

Is Randolph in the Andray Blatche mold of skill set?

I've yet to see Andray Blatche lead a break or handle the ball like Randolph. Blatche is a power forward / center that cannot be compared to guys like Odom and Prince.

[Buck You]

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I've yet to see Andray Blatche lead a break or handle the ball like Randolph. Blatche is a power forward / center that cannot be compared to guys like Odom and Prince.

But he's also a very fluid athlete that can drive to the basket like you are saying Randolph can. He's also around the same height.

[Wise1]

He was turnover prone as a freshmen but nearly every scouting report on the guy mentions what a good handle he has for a player his size:

-= original quote snipped =-



He appears to be a long way from being a point-forward or anything like that but his ball-handling should be at least adequate enough to play at the 3 spot.

He doesn't currently have 3 point range and his 46% fg percentage isn't great for someone who shot such a limited number of 3's. If we are grooming him as a 3, it will obviously be something he will need to work on. But how big of a deal is that? Odom's been a decent 3/4 hybrid in the NBA and he's always been a pretty poor 3-point shooter (around 30% for his career). Besides, how many more 6-10 guys do the Bucks need shooting 3's (or in Yi's case, shots just inside the 3 point line)?

I'm more concerned about his defensive abilities anyway. His 2.3bpg are very impressive and put him at 28th in the entire NCAA and 3rd among freshmen. But how will that translate to the NBA? Is he quick enough to guard SF's? Strong enough to guard PF's?

If you think he has Tayshaun Prince defensive-type potential, you draft him at 8 regardless of his raw offensive game (which was still good enough for 15.6ppg as a freshmen).

Wow. You beat me to it. I just posted the same argument.

[L&H_05]

Uh oh...

If Wise is promoting/hyping/endorsing a certain player in the draft, do yourself a favor and ---> DO THE COMPLETE OPPOSITE...

[Wise1]

I would be extremely reluctant to make any comparison between Randolph and Lamar Odom. Odom has incredible all-around basketball skills. He really is a terrific talent. He's a PF who can play the wing because he's athletic, has a strong handle and is a terrific passer and facilitator. Again, I didn't see Randolph play a lot but at no point at any time when I did see him did a comparison with Odom come to mind.

Lamar Odom "now" is several cuts above anyone in the draft. Let's look at Lamar Odom as a freshman at Rhode Island:

Season GP MPG PPG FG% APG RPG BPG SPG
1998-1999 32 34.9 17.6 48.2 3.8 9.4 1.5 0.8

Lamar averaged 3.5 turnovers per game and had an assist to turnover ratio of 1:1.

Lamar was/is a better offensive player and rebounder than Randolph, but Randolph has the edge in the defensive categories that the Bucks covet in blocks and steals while being very close to Lamar in scoring and rebounding.

The argument for Randolph is that he has the ability to play small forward due to his ball handling skills on offense and his athleticism, size and defensive length on the "man's" end of the court. I'm sure Randolph can handle the ball just as well as the Carmelo Anthony's and Rashard Lewis' of the world. How great was Big Dog's handle? All of those guys have excelled at the 3 without having A level handle at the position.

From what I've seen of Randolph, I don't think the Odom/Prince comparisons are far fetched. I'd liken him more to Prince though due to the defensive emphasis.

[Wise1]

Uh oh...

If Wise is promoting/hyping/endorsing a certain player in the draft, do yourself a favor and ---> DO THE COMPLETE OPPOSITE...

I'm predicting that the Indians will rally to win their division. Book it.

[europa]

Carmelo and Robinson both entered this league as big-time scorers. Randolph will not be on that level. As far as Odom, if memory serves he weighed about 220 when he came out. That's more than 20 pounds heavier than Randolph. I'll defer to those who saw Randolph play more than I did as far as NBA comparisons, but the times I did see him I saw nothing that led me to think of Odom as a comparison.

If the Bucks do think he can be another Prince I agree he becomes a strong pick at 8 and possibly the favorite. I just worry about a 6-11 guy who's that rail thin and I'm not sure his skill set projects out to the SF position. I worry that, like Brandon Wright last year, he's a skinny PF who may be a long ways away from making a meaningful NBA impact.

[randy84]

I will say this. As this teams stands right now, I would prefer Randolph over a lot of the other guys in the draft that will be around when we pick.

I think Gordon's strength is scoring and that requires a lot of shots. The Bucks already have too many guys that like to shoot. I don't think adding another shooter is what they need.

Alexander is a great athlete, but the only thing that I see him doing a lot of is dunking. Now the Bucks could use a guy that likes to go to hole and not settle for jumpshots, but I don't see very many defensive plays in his highlights. Also if I compare Randolph's freshman year to Alexander's it's not even close.

I not a big fan of Love, but I do think he is a good basketball player. I am just concerned that he is kind of big and overweight at 19 what will he be like when he has been in the league five years. He is going to end up being a plodder.

Westbrook is probably my second choice, but I don't know if he can run the point. My other concern is that his defense is getting overhyped quite a bit. Take a look at how he defended the guards in the Memphis game. They made him look silly. Also you have to remember that he played on a great team with Love and Collison so he was never "the guy".

All in all I think the Bucks team is going to look pretty much the same as last year. I think Hammond wants to see Skiles can get these guys going in the right direction.

I mean why not see if it was the coaching or the players and then if the Bucks still stink in the first half, trade Redd at the trade deadline for young talent. I mean NJ got Devin Harris for an over the hill J-Kidd at the deadline. Redd's value is going to be higher later in the year than it is now so why not wait and see.

[europa]

I'll admit I am intrigued by Randolph in terms of what he could potentially become. I'm more intrigued by him than I was with Brandon Wright last year, who I wanted nothing to do with. But I still struggle to get past how skinny Randolph is - and if he isn't capable of playing SF his weight is going to be a major issue in all probability.

I would prefer Randolph to Gordon. I don't view much difference with him and Westbrook though I think Westbrook will likely be the superior player as a rookie. I would not prefer him to Love. Then again, I don't think Love will be on the board should the Bucks stay put at 8.

[Wise1]

The skinny part has less meaning when you're talking about defending small forwards. People had similar concerns with Prince who looked like a rail. Rip Hamilton is also a slim guy that excels on defense because of his length. Rarely do you see small forwards working out of the post. So long as Randolph can defend on the perimeter and get weakside blocks and rebounds, he'll be fine.

We do know that both Hammond and Skiles prefer lengthy players that can defend so Randolph is clearly a real option for them. I personally think he'll be off the board at 8.

[Simulack]

I'll admit I am intrigued by Randolph in terms of what he could potentially become. I'm more intrigued by him than I was with Brandon Wright last year, who I wanted nothing to do with. But I still struggle to get past how skinny Randolph is - and if he isn't capable of playing SF his weight is going to be a major issue in all probability.

No doubt the weight is a concern but that is why I brought up the bench press results earlier. Randolph doing 7 despite being ridiculously skinny and having very long arms (making it harder) suggests a guy who has a sort of natural wiry strength. B. Wright did two last year and Durant did none: those guys were weaklings.

Although he needs to put on weight (and lower body strength), he might not have as far to go as someone like Wright to be 'strong enough' to play PF.

If the Bucks judged he had the ability defensively to guard SF's, I personally wouldn't be overly concerned with whatever current skills he lacks on the offensive end. He's 18 and was still talented enough to put up 15.6ppg in a major conference despite having no three point shot.

Since he was brought in with other SF prospects, it would be great to get a report on how he fared.

[Mike X]

The skinny part has less meaning when you're talking about defending small forwards. People had similar concerns with Prince who looked like a rail. Rip Hamilton is also a slim guy that excels on defense because of his length. Rarely do you see small forwards working out of the post. So long as Randolph can defend on the perimeter and get weakside blocks and rebounds, he'll be fine.

We do know that both Hammond and Skiles prefer lengthy players that can defend so Randolph is clearly a real option for them. I personally think he'll be off the board at 8.

The amount of reps he did points to a wiry strength that is easy to overlook. I know from my experience playing Rugby League that wiry guys where the ones that really suprised you with there strength.

Weight will only be a major issue if we expect him to play down in the post a fair bit.