Ian Thomsen's Mock 2.0: Bucks select Randolph

[paulpressey25]

I also see Corliss Williamson in Love. Again, just a wide body guy who will rely on his position rather than athleticism.

[LUKE23]

I also see Corliss Williamson in Love. Again, just a wide body guy who will rely on his position rather than athleticism.

Both the guys you listed, Williamson and Fortson, were easily shorter and both far less skilled than Love. Not very good comparisons.

People need to look at what Love did AS A FRESHMAN, while not even being in that great of shape compared to what he is at now.

Like I said, slightly less productive, better all-around feel for the game Boozer.

[Licensed to Il]

I will be honest, I didn't want anything to do with Love a few months back. But that changed when we hired Skiles. Skiles would absolutely maximize Love's contributions.

I see Love as a guy that is going to quickly become proficient at setting screens, rebounding, passing, and knocking down jumpers. I also think these things (and his pedicree, and his decent stats) will tease fans in to thinking he can be more. But he is never going to blow by KG off the dribble, spin past Bosh on the blocks, or block guys above the rim...

But I think setting screens, spacing the floor, making the right pass, and hitting the boards like a madman is more than enough to win Skiles over. Darius Songalia had a career year under Skiles, and Kevin Love = 3x Darius Songalia.

[paulpressey25]

-= Both the guys you listed, Williamson and Fortson, were easily shorter and both far less skilled than Love. Not very good comparisons..

Actually Corliss and Fortson were stunningly talented guys. Could they toss an outlet pass like Love? No. But they could score, score and score some more in college. With a variety of moves.

Sure, they were maybe two inches shorter than Love, but none of those three guys had great vertical ability or long wingspan. They all rely on positioning. If Love wasn't a positioning type player with girth, he wouldn't be talked about in round one.

[LUKE23]

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Actually Corliss and Fortson were stunningly talented guys. Could they toss an outlet pass like Love? No. But they could score, score and score some more in college. With a variety of moves.

Sure, they were maybe two inches shorter than Love, but none of those three guys had great vertical ability or long wingspan. They all rely on positioning. If Love wasn't a positioning type player with girth, he wouldn't be talked about in round one.

I watched both extensively as well in college. Three huge reasons they are not Love:

1. Size (height)
2. Passing ability
3. Range on jumpshot

Neither of Williamson or Fortson have any of those three qualities.

[ReasonablySober]

Setting screens, rebounding, passing, knocking down jumpers...

That sounds like a certain #1 overall pick. Huge basketball IQ, plays the game the right way, the type of guy you need to win...

I like Love. But we also need the type of guy that can blow by KG off the dribble, spin past Bosh on the blocks, or block guys above the rim.

Love is a BPA right now type. Westbrook, Randolph, Speights and Alexander may not be the player Love is right now. They may never be. But because of size and/or athleticism, they might be in two years. Determine the work ethic of those guys. Find out who truly wants to be a dominant player some day by maximizing their potential. That's the guy you draft. Based on what I've heard and what I've seen and what I've read, my money is on both Alexander and Westbrook to do just that.

[Profound23]

Well, there is some good news from Thomsen:

According to several league sources, Danilo Gallinari is putting out word that he would like to be drafted by a franchise in the greater New York area, among a few other preferred teams. It was explained to me this way: If he isn't a top five pick and he winds up being drafted by, say, the Charlotte Bobcats, he may decide to remain the next year or two in Italy with his current club, Armani Jeans Milan. Mr. Giorgio Armani himself is prepared to make Gallinari feel very wanted with salary and other commercial opportunities, not to mention a club that hopes to move up in the Euroleague next year.

"I heard Monday that he wants to go to New York or New Jersey," an NBA team president said. "He's too good to pull out of the draft, but he might stay over there [in Europe] for a while if he doesn't like the team that drafts him."

As revealed below, I have a feeling that Mr. Gallinari's dream may come true ...

No way the Bucks take a chance on that (not that he will be the BPA when we pick anyway). Please draft him Knicks, drop Westbrook or Gordon to us.

Yep, no way the Bucks take a foreign player who may refuse to play in Milwaukee and threatens just to play back at his foreign country for another year or two. cough...Yi Jianlin....cough

Seriously....how pissed off would we all be if we had to go through that scenario AGAIN.

[benultimate]

for those who want Love, what would you expect out of Yi if the 2 of them have to share time at the 4? split the minutes? Yi playing some sf?

and what about down the line? it's highly unlikely that both will become star or even above average players, meaning 1 of the 2 would likely have a ceiling of being a role player for his entire career (or career in Milwaukee at least).

I just don't see it worthwhile picking 2 players that play the same position with top 8 picks in consecutive drafts.

[xTitan]

Last year Randolph had an amazing 38 assists compared to 92 turnovers....he is not a SF at all, with eye popping numbers like that he won't be blowing by to many guys and definitely not passing the ball.

[Wise1]

There are a few guys I see as Hammond/Skiles type of players and even though Randolph has the length to be considered in that category, I don't see him as that guy.

If he weren't a Hammond/Skiles type guy, they wouldn't have brought him to town.

I think the Bucks are going to mine for a potential star and will be willing to wait on a guy like Randolph to develop. Randolph's flaws are certainly correctable and can largely be attributed to his youth and circumstances (playing for a team that lacked discipline offensively, particularly in the backcourt, from one report). Young guys can be prone to making bad decisions....for evidence just look into that other thread where the kids are getting excited about buying a Little Wayne CD....but with proper structure and leadership, most of them mature and get better.

[emunney]

Corliss was a different kind of player. Definitely a great scorer in college, but never has been a great rebounder. He scored a lot of points in that tricky short-mid range. Most people were talking about him playing the 3 in the pros.

Fortson is a different story entirely. He absolutely owned the paint in college. I remember watching him drop 40 on somebody... can't remember who, but he was always a great rebounder. If he had his head on straight, he might've been a great player -- of course, how many players can you say that about?

Love, I think, has far better all around skills than Corliss had, and is in another class entirely as a rebounder. Meanwhile, he's smarter and isn't the loose cannon that Fortson is and was, and also has a stronger floor game, though Fortson was probably physically stronger and definitely all-around more athletic at the same stage. Of course, he was also smaller.

[Buck You]

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If he weren't a Hammond/Skiles type guy, they wouldn't have brought him to town.

I think the Bucks are going to mine for a potential star and will be willing to wait on a guy like Randolph to develop. Randolph's flaws are certainly correctable and can largely be attributed to his youth and circumstances (playing for a team that lacked discipline offensively, particularly in the backcourt, from one report). Young guys can be prone to making bad decisions....for evidence just look into that other thread where the kids are getting excited about buying a Little Wayne CD....but with proper structure and leadership, most of them mature and get better.

It's a pretty good CD. I actually think it lived up to the hype. But IMO Randolph is more like a Soulja Boy CD. But to each is own right?

[andonewheel]

I'm thrilled Gallinari doesn't want to play here, I don't want him either. And now I will also wish him to fail as an NBA player. I question what kind of understanding these foreign players have of the lifestyles in different US cities. Do they want a major city for marketing or for the lifestyle? I can't imagine Gallinari ever being a marketable figure except back in Italy. I hope Gallinari goes to New Jersey and has a disappointing career that will discourage other players from taking the same route.

[Chapter29]

I'd definitely take Love if he's there and be very happy. He'll be fine as a rebounder given his girth, strength and ability to get position.

But I don't see an all-star though. A better version of Danny Fortson, with some range.

I guess I just don't get it.

I am no expert on these kids, but my take is that with Love we have a guy that is very similar to Bogut in many ways when we drafted him. Smart, not that athletic, can pass and has range (remember Bogut had some "range" too so they said).

Isn't Yi also considered a smart player with range? So we really don't "need" a PF/C with range, but of course we can always use smart players.

This team needs athletes, defense, above the rim play. Especially to compliment Bogut and Yi. Love compliments Bogut and Yi? I cannot see how.

Furthermore, from what I can tell Love has virtually zero chance of being an all-star. This team badly needs to find a diamond in the ruff. That also is not Love. Granted Love may be the safe choice (So was Bogut btw and look what we left on the table that year!).

I cannot back taking Love, but I will not be overly disappointed if we do, because smart unselfish players are in need for the low IQ Bucks and at 8 we can only be so picky. I truly hope Hammond feels that there is a potential star player available when we pick. I am also hoping that we trade up so that we don't have to take a player like Love.

[Rockmaninoff]

I will be honest, I didn't want anything to do with Love a few months back. But that changed when we hired Skiles. Skiles would absolutely maximize Love's contributions.

I didn't like him either, but that changed with the Al Horfordesque combine numbers and the win score stats.

I see Love as a guy that is going to quickly become proficient at setting screens, rebounding, passing, and knocking down jumpers. I also think these things (and his pedicree, and his decent stats) will tease fans in to thinking he can be more.

Kind of like Bogut? But, Love actually has the skills and talent to be more. The guy was the best player on college powerhouse UCLA, as a freshman.

Love is a BPA right now type. Westbrook, Randolph, Speights and Alexander may not be the player Love is right now. They may never be. But because of size and/or athleticism, they might be in two years.

Now, maybe Speights will, because he is already skilled, but Westbrook, Randolph, and Alexander are mostly just athletes right now. That's a lot of skill to add. I'd like to know how many guys as raw as those three, ever became All-Stars.

I also don't understand why Love doesn't have upside. Because he is already good?

for those who want Love, what would you expect out of Yi if the 2 of them have to share time at the 4? split the minutes? Yi playing some sf?

Yi would play center. It would be just like Utah's setup. As a matter of fact, I think the best case scenario for Love, is Carlos Boozer with better range and passing.

Boozer is not a great defender or a great athlete, but he can rebound like a madman, his midrange J is money, and he can knock guys out of position with his strength.

[Debit One]

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Kevin Love is a 6'7 PF with slow feet, marginal jumping ability and lateral quickness. If the Bucks draft him I will burn my Bucks jersey. Please draft someone who can guard at least his own man.

By all means, don't let any of his actual measurements from the pre-draft camp get in the way of your argument.

[Debit One]

Love is a BPA right now type. Westbrook, Randolph, Speights and Alexander may not be the player Love is right now. They may never be. But because of size and/or athleticism, they might be in two years.

Two thoughts:

1. If you're implying that what we see from Love right now is the best that we'll get, don't forget that the guy is 19 years old. There is no reason to believe that there isn't room for improvement in his game. Additionally, his measurements from the pre-draft camp indicate that there is more than enough athleticism there.

2. Sure, maybe Westbrook, Randolph, Speights or Alexander can be as good as him in two years. OK, maybe, but they had damned well better have significantly higher upside if you're going to pick them over Love and live with the risk that they never reach that upside.

[Debit One]

for those who want Love, what would you expect out of Yi if the 2 of them have to share time at the 4? split the minutes? Yi playing some sf?

I could see Yi playing a few minutes at SF and Love playing a few minutes at C.

and what about down the line? it's highly unlikely that both will become star or even above average players, meaning 1 of the 2 would likely have a ceiling of being a role player for his entire career (or career in Milwaukee at least).

1. I think that there are enough unanswered questions about Yi that the Bucks cannot afford to pass on a PF if they think that he is the best player available.

2. No one player out of this draft is going to turn the Bucks into a good team. They are far from that. Acquire talent, develop it, and if you end up with a surplus at a position make a trade at a later date.

[Wise1]

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It's a pretty good CD. I actually think it lived up to the hype. But IMO Randolph is more like a Soulja Boy CD. But to each is own right?

Who's Soulja Boy? The kid from that ATL movie? Suppose I could google. Basically, hip hop has never fully recovered from the losses suffered in the mid-late 90's. I just can't follow the next generation's version of hip hop. A bunch of gimmicky, tatued posers repeatedly chanting meaningless lines with no real creativity. Holdovers like Jay-Z and NAS are of course exempt, but every since Master P flooded the market with his garbage label and artists, everyone thinks they can rap.

Kanye West is a fine representative of the next gen's stars, and perhaps there are others that I've never heard, but I do no that Little Wayne has no appeal to males who've grown up listening to the best of the best.

Hopefully, Randolph can be likened to a young LL Cool J....a skinny-to-buff pimp with multi-faceted skills that stand the test of time.

[LUKE23]

The Bucks are not in a position to draft on need/position, so how the minutes/rotation shakes out should they draft Love is essentially an irrelevant discussion. Love isn't going to be available at 8 either, so this thread is for naught, but if he was and the Bucks thought he was BPA, it's irrelevant what position he plays. This team is in talent-acquisition mode.