Joe Alexander's actual "NBA height"

[ReasonablySober]

JA isn't going to be a PF because of height, it's because of his skillset. While I think he's going to struggle getting his shot off, night in and night out, against NBA small forwards, I really like his footwork down low around the block. I know I'm a broken record, but he looks like an offensively skilled David Lee. He's got a frame that looks like it could support some more weight; 15-20 lbs isn't going to kill his explosiveness.

[ReasonablySober]

I don't see the Josh Smith comparison. I really think we should think of a much less-skilled Richard Jefferson at the 4 with Alexander. Same height and comparable athleticism/strength.

I honestly couldn't think of a worse comparison. RJ has zero post skills, JA has zero perimeter skills. They both play in different areas of the court and rightfully so.

[Simulack]

I honestly couldn't think of a worse comparison. RJ has zero post skills, JA has zero perimeter skills. They both play in different areas of the court and rightfully so.

I was talking about size, strength and athleticism not similarity in terms of their games. GAD asked a question about JA's heght related to his ability to play the 4 - physically, he's very comparable to RJ. That's what the thread was about so I responded with the RJ comparison. I was going to add a disclaimed about the fact that I wasn't comparing them as players but thought it was obvious since I only referred to physical traits in my original post. However, I did also bring it up as many applauded a poster who compared JA to RJ before the trade/draft. I shouldn't have added the "less skilled" part because that did make it confusing - that was just a dig at JA.

In terms of style of play, its hard to see because I just disagree that Alexander has any really developed post-game. I guess he's got an nice turnaroud jumper? Most of the guys who have succeeded as undersized 4's had post games in college way beyond anything Alexander has shown.

[meanREDandGREEN]

Joe posted the highest bench press of anyone drafted. 24 Reps. He's strong and doesn't have much body fat, only 5.8%. He's strong enough to play 4, and he should be quick enough to outplay a lot of them with that low body fat.

[MetroDrugUnit]

His height and weight and bench res don;t mean anything until we see how it translates on the floor against NBA PF's

[MilBucksBackOnTop06]

I imagine it is possible this discussion was already had while I wasn't frequenting the boards as diligently, but either way maybe it could use repeating for extra clarification.

I have based much of my determination that we aren't getting enough value out of Joe Alexander if we use him at PF on his combination of height and weight. That is due to things I have read so far having him at 6'7½" or 6'8"

In another thread, xTitan is saying he is just about 6'10" in shoes. If he's actually 6'10", that is very significant to me as far as him being of good value playing PF here.

What is the whole story here? I'm hoping xTitan is right on this and I just wasn't paying close enough attention to have known better.

Anyway, I always hate how much a player's height gets messed around with depending on the circumstances. How hard is it to accurately measure someone? NBA listed heights already take shoes into account, do they not?

And then you have the, "well he may be listed at X, but I've stood near him and he's clearly X number of inches taller or shorter." Drives me nuts.

It is not about how tall he measures it is about how big does he play...

6'7 or 6'8 or 6'10 are irrelevant in Milwaukee Bucks basketball lore. Brad Lohaus, and Randy Breuer were 7 footers. One 6'11 to some or 7 ft to others (Lohaus) and Breuer who was 7'4 (who remind me of Lerch, on the Adam's Family...You raang!?) and neither played to their height.

So I do not get too caught up in that stuff...

[Chapter29]

Don't know much about Alexander, but from the looks of it he's a SF who can play a few match up specific minutes at PF. A 6'8 'sayin all the right things' athletic as hell SF works for me as long as he's not another Noel.

Comparing this situation to Beasley and Smith is fine. I would say the same about those 2 as well. SF's who can play the position, but its better if you don't have to play them there consistently. Well the jury is obviously sill out on Beasley.

I am not banking on Alexander backing up the PF spot. I actually am ok with keeping CV there as well if we can't get fair value. Just move Mo for a backup PF and get a depth guy at PG and call it a day.

[Wise1]

Joe posted the highest bench press of anyone drafted. 24 Reps. He's strong and doesn't have much body fat, only 5.8%. He's strong enough to play 4, and he should be quick enough to outplay a lot of them with that low body fat.

Bench press is not a good measure of basketball strength. There are always wiry strong guys that can impress with bench press reps or max lifts (see Earl Boykins). Real basketball power comes from mass and acceleration. Guys that have a low center of gravity (strong solid base...Artest, Boozer, Barkley) typically play stronger than guys who don't. If you don't have a strong base at the 4, you must compensate with mass and power in the upper body if you have any chance of over powering guys in the post. If you have neither, you must have quickness and a jumpshot to be effective at the 4.

[Ruzious]

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/

If Joe had borrowed Mbah a Moute's shoes, he would have measured at 6'9" even.

Interesting that Alexander and Mbah a Moute tied for the highest max verticle of all forwards listed - other than Pat Ewing, Jr. They're both 3.5 inches higher than Beasley.

And Jefferson is also quite the leaper.

Is that something the new GM is focusing on?

[Wise1]

Yes. Management is on record as saying they wanted to improve the team's athleticism.

[DPGBucks]

Quick FYI - Alexander is going to be on the Dan Patrick radio show w/in the next hour.

[Enrique]

Joe Alexander without shoes 6' 7.25" with 6' 8.25" wingspan 6' 11.5" standing reach 8' 10"
Richard Jefferson 6' 7.25" 6'8.5" 7'0" 8' 7"
Desmond Mason 6' 6" 7'0" 8'10"
Ersan Ilyasova 6' 7.75" 6'9" 7'1.25" 9'1.5"
Charlie Villanueva 6'9" 6'9.5" 7'0.25" 9'1"

[ReasonablySober]

David Lee - 6.75 - 6'9" - 230 - 7'0" - 8'10.5"

Alexander is smaller, but it isn't by much. 3/4s inch on the height and a half inch on the reach. Joe beat him on the vert.

[fam3381]

Based on what I've read, it's not at all uncommon for heights to vary by a quarter or half inch depending on the time of day--you're taller in the morning because your spine hasn't had a chance to compress from standing upright all day long. That could explain varying height measurements for these guys, but given when games are played, I'd choose the lower one

And when I looked at standing reach data of players who attended the pre-draft camp twice, the average difference from year to year was over and inch, yet there wasn't a perceptible trend up or down. It was surprisingly common (>25% IIRC) for guys to measure 2" taller or shorter in standing reach terms. Honestly I just don't think the measurements are accurate enough to be fretting over a quarter or half an inch. Here's a brief analysis I did on the subject:

http://www.brewhoop.com/2008/6/22/54308 ... r-explorin

As for Alexander, Ford reported he measured 6'7.75" / 6'9" when he saw him at Joe Abunassar's complex.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft200 ... tch-080520

Woelfel reported from the pre-draft camp that Alexander was 6'8"/6'9". This was before the official measurements came out, which were the aforementioned 6'7.25"/6'8.25". I'm not sure if Woelfel was simply incorrect or if he was referring to a different measurement.

[carmelbrownqueen]

I would add that the NBA currently lists Joe Alexander at 6'8" and Michael Redd at 6'6"
Is Joe Alexander 6'10" and Michael Redd 6'8" then? Or why do some players get to add extra inches and others do not?

Well if I remember correctly Redd is 6'4.25 or larger without shoes so I imagine they are adding more than a 1' for his shoe width. With Joe, he apparently prefers shoes without a ton of cushion to them, so he isn't getting the boost to to 6'9 that some other players probably have received.

[fam3381]

I think only in the past couple years have they been more meticulous about listing guys with their in-shoe height. Still, Charlie V. measured 6'9" / 6'9.5" at the pre-draft but he's always listed at 6'11". For whatever reason they just went with his college height despite him being a recent draftee.

For instance, Desmond Mason measured 6'7.25" in shoes back in his pre-draft camp and Bobby Simmons measured 6'7.5" at his. For whatever reason the media guides simply carried over their college measurements (6'5" and 6'6" I believe). Thus perpetuating the myth of Desmond being too short to play SF, despite the fact that he also had a 7'0" wingspan (longer than Alexander) and 8'10" standing reach (same as Joe). But as I said in the earlier post, I don't trust the standing reach measurements to be that accurate in the first place

[fam3381]

Well if I remember correctly Redd is 6'4.25 or larger without shoes so I imagine they are adding more than a 1' for his shoe width. With Joe, he apparently prefers shoes without a ton of cushion to them, so he isn't getting the boost to to 6'9 that some other players probably have received.

Redd was 6'4.75" / 6'.575" so his number isn't really inflated. He also had a 6'9" wingspan.

[carmelbrownqueen]

Joe posted the highest bench press of anyone drafted. 24 Reps. He's strong and doesn't have much body fat, only 5.8%. He's strong enough to play 4, and he should be quick enough to outplay a lot of them with that low body fat.

Bench press is not a good measure of basketball strength. There are always wiry strong guys that can impress with bench press reps or max lifts (see Earl Boykins). Real basketball power comes from mass and acceleration. Guys that have a low center of gravity (strong solid base...Artest, Boozer, Barkley) typically play stronger than guys who don't. If you don't have a strong base at the 4, you must compensate with mass and power in the upper body if you have any chance of over powering guys in the post. If you have neither, you must have quickness and a jumpshot to be effective at the 4.

I don't remember where I read it, but I was pretty sure that one of the sites when evaluating Alexander stated he has a "high" center of gravity.

[Johnny Newman]

Based on what I've read, it's not at all uncommon for heights to vary by a quarter or half inch depending on the time of day--you're taller in the morning because your spine hasn't had a chance to compress from standing upright all day long. That could explain varying height measurements for these guys, but given when games are played, I'd choose the lower one

And when I looked at standing reach data of players who attended the pre-draft camp twice, the average difference from year to year was over and inch, yet there wasn't a perceptible trend up or down. It was surprisingly common (>25% IIRC) for guys to measure 2" taller or shorter in standing reach terms. Honestly I just don't think the measurements are accurate enough to be fretting over a quarter or half an inch. Here's a brief analysis I did on the subject:

http://www.brewhoop.com/2008/6/22/54308 ... r-explorin

As for Alexander, Ford reported he measured 6'7.75" / 6'9" when he saw him at Joe Abunassar's complex.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft200 ... tch-080520

Woelfel reported from the pre-draft camp that Alexander was 6'8"/6'9". This was before the official measurements came out, which were the aforementioned 6'7.25"/6'8.25". I'm not sure if Woelfel was simply incorrect or if he was referring to a different measurement.

Draft measurements should be crack of dawn when they just wake up for coffee.

[fam3381]

I don't remember where I read it, but I was pretty sure that one of the sites when evaluating Alexander stated he has a "high" center of gravity.

It was DX.

Defensively, Alexander has nice tools, including great size and length, and seems to put in a pretty solid effort, but there will be some major question marks about his ability to guard NBA small forwards at the next level. He has a high center of gravity that makes it tough for him to get in a low defensive stance, and struggles staying in front of quicker wing players already, showing average lateral quickness and footwork in the process, and getting beat off the dribble on a regular basis. He’s a little too stiff and upright in his stance, which does not allow him to contest quite as many shots as you’d hope within West Virginia’s zone. To his credit, he does play at the very top of this zone, often matched up against smaller guards, which probably makes him look a bit worse than he actually is here, but there will be big concerns regardless. His very nice timing, combined with the quickness in which he gets off his feet, makes him a decent shot-blocking threat, at 1.5 per game.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Joe-Alexander-1185/