Why Do You Guys Not Like Mo Williams' Game?

MilBucksBackOnTop06 · Post #21 » by **MilBucksBackOnTop06** » Tue Jul 1, 2008 8:42 am

I am not saying I do not like Mo Williams game...Mo is a top notch player in this league in the right role, on the right team, and on the court with the right players, commtted to playing the right way.

In Cleveland as well as in Orlando or Miami he would be perfect. He would work well next to a Super star who can play off of him, which Redd is not.

He and Redd might be a better 'system player' as he had when he was working with Jerry Sloan like Rick Majerus said that I tend to agree with. So far Redd and Mo have run off 3 coaches in 4 years and scared countless others (Collins, Saunders, Brown, etc) away from coaching them.

Homers here cry about Mo because they have these illusions of grandeur that Bogut is this hot shot Superstar which he is not....yet.

He has not shown or proven that over a full season. Bogut is a solid if not a servicable to very good to great complementary player and borederline All Star thus far. But Bogut too is only 23-24 years old and has some slight upside left. But don't blame that on Mo.

But they blame Mo's shots and his volume of shots for hindering Bogut's development which is just lunacy. Bogut will only get better working on things Bogut needs to work on himself! It will have little to do with what Mo is doing. Bogut will control...Bogut!

Mo has a nice game. Great pull up to mid-range jumper. Can stretch it out to the 3pt line and can guard the ball if he wants to but again, some coaching scheme might help him a lot and big men who do not flop and offer some resistance behind him.

But you cannot have him on a team full of jump shooters or on the floor at the same time with guys who are volume shooters in contract years who cannot create their own shot or dominate in the low post with quick face ups and throw downs.

Mo shoots on most nights because he has to and sometimes out of greed to justify his contract.
But the one thing about Mo is he has to find his role and stick to it and get his team in the offense quicker.

But he is miscast. When TJ was here and he was coming off the bench that was his niche.' That got us tothe playoffs. But he is not leading this team to the playoffs unless we get RJ in here and a good PF and not a passive Center.

power4wardjinx · Post #22 » by **power4wardjinx** » Tue Jul 1, 2008 8:47 am

They are Bucks fans, you have to be patient with them and they're understanding of the market value of their players. Can I trade our crap for your best player????

power4wardjinx · Post #23 » by **power4wardjinx** » Tue Jul 1, 2008 8:53 am

MilBucksBackOnTop06 wrote:I am not saying I do not like Mo Williams game...Mo is a top notch player in this league in the right role, on the right team, and on the court with the right players, commtted to playing the right way.

In Cleveland as well as in Orlando or Miami he would be perfect. He would work well next to a Super star who can play off of him, which Redd is not.

He and Redd might be a better 'system player' as he had when he was working with Jerry Sloan like Rick Majerus said that I tend to agree with. So far Redd and Mo have run off 3 coaches in 4 years and scared countless others (Collins, Saunders, Brown, etc) away from coaching them.

But they blame Mo's shots and his volume of shots for hindering Bogut's development which is just lunacy. Mo has a nice game. But you cannot have him on a team full of jump shooters who cannot create their own shot or dominate in the low post.

Mo shoots on most nights because he has to and sometimes out of greed to justify his contract.
But the one thing about Mo is he has to find his role and stick to it and get his team in the offense quicker.

But he is miscast. When TJ was here and he was coming off the bench that was his niche.' That got us tothe playoffs. But he is not leading this team to the playoffs unless we get RJ in here and a good PF and not a passive Center.

Where does one begin with this?? It was not mo, it was Redd that everyone from Tim Thomas to Andrew bogut got pissed at. Dude, Mo would not even play in Cleveland. He would play minutes over Wally and Boobie Gibson?? NO. Somebody needs to tell me where Mo would play? Where would little mo play??? Where???

NY??

th87 · Post #24 » by **th87** » Tue Jul 1, 2008 9:04 am

Some of the criticism is probably unfair.

He's just in the wrong role. So he needs to be put into the right situation, and who's to say that he wouldn't be cool with a backup role? Do we really know for sure?

And who's to say he won't improve upon his weaknesses?

I'd still be okay with trading him, but the amount of criticism he gets is unfair.

power4wardjinx · Post #25 » by **power4wardjinx** » Tue Jul 1, 2008 9:10 am

[quote="MilBucksBackOnTop06"]
Mo shoots on most nights because he has to and sometimes out of greed to justify his contract.
[aquote]

MO was shooting to say "yo Michael Redd, some of us are as good as you if not better, and we'd really like you to see what the effects of YOU are on this team." Mo was doing half of what he was doing last seaon just to put Redd in his place. It was like, YO - I can do what you do too and do it better.

Whiteman · Post #26 » by **Whiteman** » Tue Jul 1, 2008 10:49 am

cavsfan_osiris wrote:Why do so many Bucks fans seem to not like Mo Williams' game or feel that he is no longer needed?

Short summary:
- like you already said, he's not a floor general. His court vision is average and he's not particularly good at controling the pace or getting everyone involved. He's been working on his playmaking though, taking fewer shots over the years and trying to get people involved.
- his defense is really bad.
- Redd's weaknesses are similar (defense and playmaking/passing), which makes both players look worse. Some people want to trade Mo, some would rather trade Redd, but nobody wants to keep this backcourt together. Right now it looks like Mo will be the one to get traded.
- there were some locker room issues. That's only to be expected when a team underachieves like last year's Bucks though. I'm pretty sure similar things happen on many teams, but because this board has a few posters with inside contacts and because we discuss everything to death here out of sheer boredom, everything gets amplified. I really doubt Mo would be much of a locker room problem on a good team.

Suppose he'd get traded to the Cavs, what kind of player can you expect?
- a pg who can bring the ball upcourt and get it to your playmaker, but is also capable of creating his own offense. He can most definitely score, but is not a selfish player.
- a poor defender. Playing on a good defensive team tends to make poor defenders look better though - Mike James for example looked a lot better on the Pistons than with the Bucks.

In short, many people here want him out because he's a bad fit, not because he's a bad player. He'd look a lot better on the Cavs, if only you had something to offer in return...

GrandAdmiralDan · Post #27 » by **GrandAdmiralDan** » Tue Jul 1, 2008 10:57 am

power4wardjinx wrote:They are Bucks fans, you have to be patient with them and they're understanding of the market value of their players. Can I trade our crap for your best player????

You're not a Bucks fan?
Why are you here?
Not that you can't be here if you're a fan of another team instead (is that what you are? I haven't figured you out yet), it just usually isn't proper behavior to go around denigrating Bucks fans in general on the Bucks forum...

pilprin · Post #28 » by **pilprin** » Tue Jul 1, 2008 12:18 pm

My problem with Mo is this...He can't play in the same back court with Redd because they are too similar. Good offense poor Defense.

Mo has a smaller contract than Redd so he is the logical one to be traded.

I think both of them have had issues with coaches and players. Who is a bigger problem is unknown. However as a previous poster stated, on bad teams in bad situations the worst comes out in people. If one stays, I would expect him to be on a short leash.

Debit One · Post #29 » by **Debit One** » Tue Jul 1, 2008 12:27 pm

Profound23 wrote:I would like to get a PG who can play defense and get more assists than FGA's.

MetroDrugUnit · Post #30 » by **MetroDrugUnit** » Tue Jul 1, 2008 12:31 pm

If neither one gets traded (Which Probably Won't Happen) It'll be interesting to see how they play under Skiles

andonewheel · Post #31 » by **andonewheel** » Tue Jul 1, 2008 1:07 pm

power4wardjinx wrote:Where does one begin with this?? It was not mo, it was Redd that everyone from Tim Thomas to Andrew bogut got pissed at. Dude, Mo would not even play in Cleveland. He would play minutes over Wally and Boobie Gibson?? NO. Somebody needs to tell me where Mo would play? Where would little mo play??? Where???

NY??

Mo wouldn't get minutes over Wally and Boobie? Are you out of your mind? Mo would be the Cavs second best scorer and Lebron's new favorite player.

EastSideBucksFan · Post #32 » by **EastSideBucksFan** » Tue Jul 1, 2008 1:44 pm

This thread is like asking

"Why is Paris Hilton a whore?"

Ohhhhh let me count the ways

unklchuk · Post #33 » by **unklchuk** » Tue Jul 1, 2008 1:52 pm

IMO, Mo gets bashed in this forum more than necessary (by folks like me) because his fan club (the MoNation) expresses intense, single-minded devotion to him. The Mo club includes some of the forum's humorists who like to stick people with sarcastic one-liners, so it comes off as a would-be Dogma. They sell it as not just there views but as The Truth.

However, other folks have risen up against the Tyranny of the Big Mo. And Mo acted a bit the jerk this past season. And the new management has hinted that they are not part of the Mo Nation, and that Mo is likely not part of their plans to go forward. So a balance of sorts has been reached.

The Mo Nation isn't very active in this thread. Not sure why... Feels good though :-)

SupremeHustle · Post #34 » by **SupremeHustle** » Tue Jul 1, 2008 2:12 pm

Mo is very good, but he and Michael Redd are (were) being utilized wrong. If the Bucks had one of these mythical PGs that most covet, along with Redd at the 2 and Mo backing up the 1 and 2, I believe they would be a better team.

Mo is too talented to give away. Redd is too talented to give away. The trick is finding a player or players better than them to put them in line. Richard Jefferson doesn't fill that role to me and the task may be impossible, which is why they both may ultimately be traded.

LISTEN2JAZZ · Post #35 » by **LISTEN2JAZZ** » Tue Jul 1, 2008 2:17 pm

I like Mo's game. I don't think he contributes to a winning culture on his own, but he plays hard and is very skilled. Next to a true leader and winner, he'll look like an all-star. Mo plays in the same NBA that awards max contracts to Allen Iverson, Steve Francis, and possibly no Gilbert Arenas. If Gil signs a max contract this week (as the rumors say he will), he will have a deal that pays him $20 million in his last years.

Now Mo isn't as exciting a performer as Gil is, but their impact on wins isn't vastly different. They are both gifted scorers (with Gil being better around the basket and with insane range, and Mo being better in the midrange) who pass moderately well. They also both lack interest in playing defense. At equal salaries, I would rather have Arenas, mostly because he is more fun to watch. But at $20 million for Arenas vs $9 million for Mo? Such a deal ought to raise Mo's trade value.

SupremeHustle · Post #36 » by **SupremeHustle** » Tue Jul 1, 2008 2:28 pm

adamcz wrote:I like Mo's game. I don't think he contributes to a winning culture on his own, but he plays hard and is very skilled. Next to a true leader and winner, he'll look like an all-star. Mo plays in the same NBA that awards max contracts to Allen Iverson, Steve Francis, and possibly no Gilbert Arenas. If Gil signs a max contract this week (as the rumors say he will), he will have a deal that pays him $20 million in his last years.

Now Mo isn't as exciting a performer as Gil is, but their impact on wins isn't vastly different. They are both gifted scorers (with Gil being better around the basket and with insane range, and Mo being better in the midrange) who pass moderately well. They also both lack interest in playing defense. At equal salaries, I would rather have Arenas, mostly because he is more fun to watch. But at $20 million for Arenas vs $9 million for Mo? Such a deal ought to raise Mo's trade value.

Gilbert is like 28 and 6 with 2 steals when he's healthy. That and he has two other players as good as M Redd on his team.

Mo is a new millennium Bobby Jackson. Gilbert Arenas is Gilbert Fing Arenas.

jerrod · Post #37 » by **jerrod** » Tue Jul 1, 2008 2:44 pm

unklchuk wrote:IMO, Mo gets bashed in this forum more than necessary (by folks like me) because his fan club (the MoNation) expresses intense, single-minded devotion to him. The Mo club includes some of the forum's humorists who like to stick people with sarcastic one-liners, so it comes off as a would-be Dogma. They sell it as not just there views but as The Truth.

The Mo Nation isn't very active in this thread. Not sure why... Feels good though

i'm gonna take offense to this because that's slanted and biased it gives me a headache.

this mo nation crap is just a way for people to throw out their ridiculous hate for someone and then not have to actually defend it. rarely, do the people you'd probably include in "mo nation" ever actually start threads about him, or bring him up in other threads.

and that last line of yours up there, the irony meter is off the charts.

ok i'm done, continue bashing

EastSideBucksFan · Post #38 » by **EastSideBucksFan** » Tue Jul 1, 2008 2:49 pm

This is the best way to put it for me.

I love Mo Williams as a player, in general.

The fact that he got paid big, went to his head.

He has proven he can't be an effective starting point guard on this team, so his time to go has come since turning him into an overpaid 6th man is not an option.

LUKE23 · Post #39 » by **LUKE23** » Tue Jul 1, 2008 2:50 pm

If Mo could defend a chair, I'd take him as our starter and have no issues with it. He's probably the laziest defender I've ever seen when it comes to denying penetration, and he has no excuses for it becuause he has OK size and very good quickness, he's just lazy as hell on that end.

If he would be fine with it and READILY accept without causes issues getting 30 minutes a night off the bench at 1/2, then I would absolutely love to keep him. This team will not win with both Mo and Redd in the backcourt though. That has been 100% proven.

Post #40 » by **ReasonablySober** » Tue Jul 1, 2008 3:18 pm

I like Mo. There's reports that he got into it with an assistant coach but everyone in the locker room has said it wasn't a big deal. He appears to be well liked on the court and when he wasn't playing he was always giving encouragement to guys like Sessions and other backups.

He is an offensive force. I don't care what anyone says, but the name of the game is putting the ball in the basket and Mo does it almost as well as any PG in the league. He's efficient, shoots well from all over the court and is a proven fourth quarter, crunch time performer.

His defense is lousy but I'm less concerned about that than others, simply because (1) nobody on the Bucks played a lot of defense, particularly on the perimeter and (2) I don't see much defense being played in the NBA most nights. There are a handful of really good defenders, and then there's everyone else. Defense is also tough when you're playing in front of three guys whom nobody on the opposition respects. It's why Mike James and Lindsey Hunter looked like terrors in Detroit and average, at best, in Milwaukee.

If Mo WIlliams gets moved I won't be upset, provided he isn't simply given away for garbage like Udonis Haslem. For a couple years people would justify him here in Milwaukee by calling him an impact starter on a Championship team. Well, last year he started and played 36 minutes a night on the worst team in the NBA. Haslem hasn't done anything besides ride the coattails of better talent.

Right now the Bucks don't have a starting caliber PG outside of Williams. He can't be dealt unless there's a plan to bring in another starter already in place.