Mike Bibby?

[Frank Nova]

With all the things happening in ATL right now with Josh Smith and Josh Childress, Im sure ATL isnt interested in dealing with anyone else until they are sorted out, BUT... I for 1 am extremely interested in getting Mike Bibby in a Bucks uniform by the start of the season... Everyone always comments about we need a "pass fisrt" PG, the guy has "team dime" tattooed on his arms, should give you a good indication about his 1st priority on the court. I mean lets think about it, Bibby isnt the best defender, I'd say a minor upgrade over Mo but Bibby plays to win and plays to make his teammates better... very unselfish but yet scores a decent amount, forces the extra pass more than a bad shot, runs the break and doesnt pull up for a jumper unless its the best available shot, he is a smart well rounded floor general that will flourish with Redd and RJ on the wings and Bogut controlling the paint... Id like to know what everyone thinks about this because I dont ever hear mention of him, not sure what his contract is like or availability for that matter but I figure with Acie Law in ATL makes Bibby expendable, and with a Josh Smith departure from ATL, could open a PF slot for them.. (Im thinkin CV) ... this trade works contract wise but we would need to sign a PF to fill a hole or trade Mason or Bell afterwards for another Bigman...

Bucks send -
Mo Williams
Charlie Villanueva
Dan Gadzuric

to Atlanta for -
Mike Bibby
Solomon Jones

Bucks Lineup =
Bibby/Sessions/Bell
Redd/Mason/Bell
Jefferson/Mbah A Moute/Mason
Alexander/Jones
Bogut/FA

[bigkurty]

Honestly I think Bibby is just an older version of Mo. He is definitely not an upgrade IMO and could very well be a downgrade at this point. However the deal would shed a lot of salary in a year so maybe its not too bad of a deal either.

[tedbrogen]

I would actually not mind Bibby over Mo. Basing that on Bibby not needing to take as many shots as Mo, he can defer a little more and just shoot when the D gives him the open shot. They probably are almost equal defensively though. Mo could probably be better than Bibby defensively, but he doesn't try on D and already got paid so why start trying now. Bibby would at least try defensively, albeit to not much effect because age has taken its toll on him. Also, Bibby for one year at $15M interests me a lot more than Mo at 5 years for $44M (what if they keep Mo and things go south with him and Skiles? They can't just sit Mo on the bench at that salary)

All that said, what do they trade for him?
The Hawks might be interested in Charlie V for his frontcourt scoring (although his refusal to come off the bench wouldn't fit with them unless they somehow lost Smith to FA and needed a PF), they probably would take on Mason's expiring, but who is the third guy to get them to Bibby's salary?
If they are so desperate to get Law into the lineup that they can't handle keeping Bibby around one more season and wait for his contract to expire, then obviously Mo is out of the question.
Gadz makes the deal so unfair its not even funny, so no way there.
Bell makes it work, but what does he bring to them, less than 10 minutes a game behind Johnson?

That's before mentioning how truly valuable Bibby's expiring contract really is. They could get so much more than CV, Mason, and Bell for it. The Bucks would have to throw in a 1st rounder for 09 to make it fair, but that's waayyy too much to give up for one year of Bibby.

[JoeHova]

I would actually not mind Bibby over Mo. Basing that on Bibby not needing to take as many shots as Mo, he can defer a little more and just shoot when the D gives him the open shot..

Why do people just randomly say things that have no basis in reality? Bibby averages 13.8 shots per 36 minutes for his career, Mo is at 13.9. Mo actually took fewer shots per minute last year than Bibby did. Meanwhile, Mo gets more assists per minute.

I'll grant you that Bibby has been slightly more efficient than Mo over the course of their careers, but Mo is 4 years younger and Bibby seems to be declining already. Also, Bibby is an even worse defender than Mo is.

I would easily rather have Mo than Bibby. It seems that some people are letting their scapegoating of Mo get in the way of any kind of logic.

[Frank Nova]

I just honestly feel that Bibby is an "immediate" upgrade as of right now, I feel like we have a better chance at winning next season with someone "like" Bibby over someone "like" Mo.... okay heres my problem, I was reading an article on JSOnline.com that said Mo Williams and Mike Redd both consistantly passed up on open players to try and do things themselves, Yi and Bogut were the 2 players they mentioned that were shunned by Mo and Redd the most.. An article even stated that many times towards the end of the season Bogut would score a basket and run back on D high fiving HIMSELF because thats how much of a selfish undevoted team we dealt with last year... I cant deal with this any longer, I want Redd and Mo both gone but for good if not greater value back, call me optimistic but its lookin like Redd will stay so I am sorry but that leaves Mo out of the picture... We CANNOT go into next season with them 2 as our starting back court because it will only lead to a team destruction.. hence last season!! The Bucks had talent last year, actually a good 7-8 man rotation, with CV mase and bell comin off the bench we should have atleast contended for a playoff spot in the East but no we finish with the 7th worst record... I love JA's game and think he was the right choice but I wanted Bayless alittle more to rid Mo because I thought that was more of a win now move however I do strongly feel in 2-3 seasons JA will be just as good as Beasley.. JA dominated the BIG EAST tourney and 3 rounds in the NCAA tourney and the BIG EAST being the best college b-ball conference shows me alot.. and he did his damage at the 4 spot which makes me feel like he will be our starting 4 after he adds about 10-15 more pounds of muscle and doesnt lose any of that athleticism we are going to fall in love.... ANYWAY really off subject but with MO as our starter someone like JA will never develop properly, getting lots of garbage minutes against 2nd string becuz we are losing all the time and a dysfunctional locker room is the worst thing for players with good attitudes and keeping MO is what our team will continue to do... Its not his fault persay but the way his game is played, MO AND REDD CANNOT COEXIST TOGETHER and with Hammond and Skiles reaching out to Redd means that if Mo starts focusing on Defense and open players he is a goner.. I personally dont see that ever happening so I look at someone like Bibby as a good replacement... comments please!

[NeedsMoreCheese]

I would actually not mind Bibby over Mo. Basing that on Bibby not needing to take as many shots as Mo, he can defer a little more and just shoot when the D gives him the open shot..

Why do people just randomly say things that have no basis in reality? Bibby averages 13.8 shots per 36 minutes for his career, Mo is at 13.9. Mo actually took fewer shots per minute last year than Bibby did. Meanwhile, Mo gets more assists per minute.

I'll grant you that Bibby has been slightly more efficient than Mo over the course of their careers, but Mo is 4 years younger and Bibby seems to be declining already. Also, Bibby is an even worse defender than Mo is.

I would easily rather have Mo than Bibby. It seems that some people are letting their scapegoating of Mo get in the way of any kind of logic.

But Bibby has a TATTOO that says team dime!


Back on a serious note, to the original poster, besides a Tattoo being the most absurd form of logic used to trade for a guy, you dont even have a clue what the Tattoo actually represents. It refers to his group of friends that go everywhere with him.

[Frank Nova]

I didnt know that u are part of Mike Bibbys entourage, ill keep that in mind for next time and refer to u as drama or turtle... in basketball "dimes" are another word for assists so unless u know Bibby on a personal level I'd love to know how u were informed that he calls his "group of friends that go everywhere with him" his team dime??

[NeedsMoreCheese]

I didnt know that u are part of Mike Bibbys entourage, ill keep that in mind for next time and refer to u as drama or turtle... in basketball "dimes" are another word for assists so unless u know Bibby on a personal level I'd love to know how u were informed that he calls his "group of friends that go everywhere with him" his team dime??

You cant be serious?

[Frank Nova]

Im basically asking u the same question...

[NeedsMoreCheese]

Im basically asking u the same question...

Not really. If you think im just making **** up then go ahead and believe that, I really dont care if you're that naive or paranoid. Or you could do what most people who dont know something and dont believe it when they first hear it do and go look it up. But no youd rather choose to have everyone else lay things out for you.

And youre basing this whole trade Mo on a MJS article?? Uhhh, yeah see, about that.....

[Chapter29]

They are always there for each other? Help each other out? Have each others back. Always there to assist each other.

Perhaps?

I honestly have no clue as to his tattoos or their origin but I will say that I don't care for him as a player at all. When I saw that he was being considered pass first and that he is an upgrade to Mo I was going to post the career shot attempts but JoeHova beat me to it.

Bibby in his prime was Mo Williams on Steriods. A good player mind you, there is no doubt there, but not a pass first guy. Age seems to have caught up to him quicker than most.

I don't want Bibby for free, let alone to give up Mo for him. Not a fan of trading for has-beens.

[Chapter29]

A 2 minute search finds this from NBA.com off all places.

Welcome to the nucleus of Team Dime, the nickname Dane came up with for the brothers and some long time friends who hang out together frequently during the long NBA season in Sacramento. The group means so much to Mike, he has a Team Dime tattoo running down his back. Team Dime has a twofold meaning. The Bibby family number is 10, which Mike wears. Dime also is the current buzzword for assist. And Team Dime is certainly racking up the assists, making a somewhat hectic NBA lifestyle operate much smoother.

“It’s a comfort zone thing for me,” Mike said. “I just like having people around me, like family and friends.”

http://www.nba.com/kings/news/Mikes_Crew.html

On this board people know their basketball.

[Frank Nova]

I guess by the article about team dime makes u more right than me but doesnt make me wrong by any means so I didnt need u thinkin ur the man by tryin to make me look stupid and Im not basing my whole trade idea on 1 article but just saying Im basing my trade idea on the fact that Mo and Redd dont co-exist at all, 1 or both need to go and Hammond and Skiles have apparently reached out to Redd and told him he is not going anywhere so that leaves Mo, Im only paranoid about going into next season with them 2 again because Im sick of LOSING... if u watched the playoffs last year when ATL played Boston u would have noticed that Bibby handled himself quite well when he would go multiple possessions at a time not even touchin the ball when Joe Johnson, Horford and Smith were playin 3 man ball, yes it was working so Bibby did his part... Can u see Mo doing that?? No u cant, u can see Mo forcing himself to get involved... like 21 foot pull ups on 3 on 2 fast breaks that we've seen so often.... so its no secret that Mo and Redd dont play well together and adding RJ isnt gonna make Mo any better or any less unselfish, I just really liked how Bibby played against Boston and think we need a PG like that that doesnt demand the ball when other people are scoring... Redd RJ and Bogut are more than capable of playing 3 man ball and need a PG who is willing to play like Bibby did when he was put in the situation... I'm perfectly fine with giving Sessions the starting position right now over Mo because he is more willing to distribute the ball, keep MO as 6th man, that be fantastic, I just like Bibby and think hes a perfect fit to help us win next season... plus a trade of Bibby Marvin Williams and Solomon Jones 4 Mo, CV, Mase n Gadz works contract wise and I think that could help us awhole lot

[Frank Nova]

Since when has Bibby been a has-been?? ATL traded for him just last year to make their playoff run, thats kinda like calling Marion Hossa a has-been then right? cuz the Penguins did the same thing the Hawks did for the exact same type of player for the exact same reason, the sports are different but the comparison is uncanny, someone with experience and talent... so thats a (Please Use More Appropriate Word) comment and "people on this board know their basketball".. if ur referring to someone knowing the actual meaning of Mike Bibbys team dime tattoo as "knowing their basketball" then u must be 10 years old or something becuz that makes no sense to me.. Knowing basketball would then intale u not calling a pretty damn good still pretty young basketball player a has-been now wouldnt it? .. Im not here to argue, it was just an idea I had, if u dont like it than by all means tell me about it but Im just a Bucks fan that wants the team to get better, if u arent a Bibby fan than great, hopefully for ur sake we dont trade for him aslong as we upgrade over Mo and/or Redd

[NeedsMoreCheese]

I guess by the article about team dime makes u more right than me but doesnt make me wrong by any means so I didnt need u thinkin ur the man by tryin to make me look stupid and Im not basing my whole trade idea on 1 article but just saying Im basing my trade idea on the fact that Mo and Redd dont co-exist at all, 1 or both need to go and Hammond and Skiles have apparently reached out to Redd and told him he is not going anywhere so that leaves Mo, Im only paranoid about going into next season with them 2 again because Im sick of LOSING... if u watched the playoffs last year when ATL played Boston u would have noticed that Bibby handled himself quite well when he would go multiple possessions at a time not even touchin the ball when Joe Johnson, Horford and Smith were playin 3 man ball, yes it was working so Bibby did his part... Can u see Mo doing that?? No u cant, u can see Mo forcing himself to get involved... like 21 foot pull ups on 3 on 2 fast breaks that we've seen so often.... so its no secret that Mo and Redd dont play well together and adding RJ isnt gonna make Mo any better or any less unselfish, I just really liked how Bibby played against Boston and think we need a PG like that that doesnt demand the ball when other people are scoring... Redd RJ and Bogut are more than capable of playing 3 man ball and need a PG who is willing to play like Bibby did when he was put in the situation... I'm perfectly fine with giving Sessions the starting position right now over Mo because he is more willing to distribute the ball, keep MO as 6th man, that be fantastic, I just like Bibby and think hes a perfect fit to help us win next season... plus a trade of Bibby Marvin Williams and Solomon Jones 4 Mo, CV, Mase n Gadz works contract wise and I think that could help us awhole lot

Yes that did indeed happen earlier this summer. But that doesnt mean thats all that happened. And no I'm not going to get into specifics, because that ends up in me revealing details that shouldnt be. As I said before you can believe me or not, Im not going to screwup things with people and expose details just to placate you. The MJS is not generally that up to date on its info. Which anyone here can verify.

Im just as sick of losing as you are. But as has been rehashed about a million times here, the point is Mike Bibby Isnt anywhere near an unselfish PG. His averages of nearly 5.5 assists and 2.5 turnovers the last 7 years kind of contradict his unselfishness.

[Chapter29]

People very much know their basketball on this board and with that attitude you are going to be corrected quite often.

I think Bibby is a has-been yes and I highly doubt that we try and trade for him, but you keep hoping for it I don't want to stop you from dreaming.

Edited to add...

I will say that the best thing going for Bibby is his huge expiring deal. That does have value, but we are in a win now mode so I don't think we want to carry that load for a year.

Don't you think its funny that if Bibby was so good that you would see comments like these from Hawks fans (and a couple others)? It is my understanding that the hawks really covet a PG and a C. If Bibby is so good, why do they covet a PG? Especially when they have Law waiting in the wings?

That is a hard one. Want to get rid of Bibby, and love to get Lowry, but Walker has no place on either roster. So yeah, if we cut Walker after the trade then maybe yes.

you are only as good as your last game.... nah i'm just kidding

Bibby even at his best in SAC was a bad defender and his numbers where inflaited only because of the system the Kings ran.

Bibby is better than Lue i will give you that.... but when you hear Baron and Gordon, and Kirk are on the Market, well you just have to try to jump on it now.

I think a lot of the hate for Bibby is because a lot of people thought he was much better than he actually was. As Harry said, even at his best Bibby had some flaws. Now that he is on the decline he is really nothing more than a streak shooter with okay passing skills and good leadership ability. He's a big name with a big contract, but he's just an above average PG to me. And I'll take that happily after the disaster at PG we've had over the past few years.

Because he's just not good no offense. He'd be a backup on many teams and is just an average point guard. He's a liability on offense and isn't the best play maker. He's also been shooting at worse percentages each year. He used to be deadly from three, now not so much.

There are a couple that defend him, but I think that everyone is in agreement that his game is in decline and that he is not the future plans for the Hawks.

[MickeyDavis]

Weezy, you really need to start formatting your posts better. They are very hard to read with the rambling long paragraphs. And stop the personal attacks.

[andonewheel]

What's the point of Bibby? Even if he is a slight upgrade over Mo (which I don't believe) he isn't different enough to have much of an impact. Then we might as well just keep Mo.

[Chapter29]

Weezy, you really need to start formatting your posts better. They are very hard to read with the rambling long paragraphs. And stop the personal attacks.

It's kind of ironic because I didn't even catch the attack as I can't read his posts very well.

[paulpressey25]

I think the proposed trade works well as a salary dump. I'm not high on Bibby anymore either so I wouldn't view it as a huge upgrade at PG.

But at some point this team needs to clear out either Gadz, Mo or Redd's contract in the next 6-10 months to get some salary flexibility to take on a new player or two.