The Mo & Villanueva Conundrum & How Hammond Is Being Judged

[fam3381]

Sounds like you're still a big Chad Ford fan

I'm hoping Delonte West bolts for Europe or someplace other than Cleveland--I'd love to give Cleveland a reason to want Mo.

[power4wardjinx]

Wow, I thought you were kidding about West! Looks like he's talking to Dyanmo Moscow - 2 yrs, $10 mill.
http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/vi ... p?t=438114

Is Cavs GM Danny Ferry so inept that he would botch West and go begging for a trade to replace him with a guy like Mo who costs $8 mill per year? Maybe? He did it last year with the Varejao-Pavlovic holdouts. But I don't think they'll let West go to Russia - it doesn't look like he wants Mo money, just more than Boobie got (5yrs-21mill).

And yes, the Chad Ford Watch is ever sometimes vigilant!!!

[Nowak008]

He's not a true 6'2", more of a shooting 6'2"

This is one of the funnier things I've ever read on this forum. Nice one.

+1

[cavsfan_osiris]

I'd love Mo Williams and the Cavs should seriously look at him. Delonte West can't even handle the rock. He's a nice bench player, but brutal to watch try and play point guard when he's really not one.

$8 million a year for Mo is not a horrible contract in my opinion at all especially with how it's constructed. I'd much rather pay Mo $8.5 million than an average combo guard who can't really run point like Delonte $5 million. The Cavs already dropped money on Gibson who can't handle the rock West/Gibson isn't a good duo at point guard. I don't care what team it's for.

[emunney]

Can you aggregate the salary of the player who gets signed in a sign and trade with the salaries of other players on his team of origin? If so, I'd gladly do Mo for Varejao, West on a 3 year deal and a pick.

[cavsfan_osiris]

Delonte West would be a BYC player due to his raise so it would be a hard deal. Hypothetically if your proposed deal would work I would do it, but I wouldn't give a pick, not even a 2nd rounder.

The Cavs in reality probably don't like Mo Williams like I do. They seem to like combo guards who don't/can't handle the ball a lot because their philosophy is to let LeBron pound the rock. They don't want anyone else to handle it. That's why the Cavs GM Danny Ferry hasn't brought in one quality point guard in over 3 years with the team.

I'd rather have Mo than Redd and his huge contract, but I doubt anyone within the Cavs organization would agree. It's unfortunate because I think Mo is exactly the type of PG the Cavs need. Someone who is offensively gifted and not afraid to create on his own. They would probably look at Mo and see a guy who does too much offensively and wouldn't like that.

I don't agree with it, but for whatever reason that's how they want to build around LeBron.

[DH34Phan]

I bet there some on this forum that would rather have Delonte West than Mo Williams.

[bigkurty]

I bet there some on this forum that would rather have Delonte West than Mo Williams.

OK I know you get confused since you are a die hard DH fan but I think you are wrong on this.

[ReasonablySober]

I bet there some on this forum that would rather have Delonte West than Mo Williams.

OK I know you get confused since you are a die hard DH fan but I think you are wrong on this.

Wanna bet?

[power4wardjinx]

I don't know how much of that stuff about West from Cavs fan above is true at all, which is probably why Cavs management disagrees ... West's been an NBA pg since he got out of college and spearheads a pretty nasty defense for Mike Brown. Seems to be coming into his own. Ferry'd be nuts to lose him to Moscow when reportedly wants 3-years and about $15-16 mill. As for Mo, most of it's been said earlier in this thread

If anybody took Drugbust's bet, he won it.

[cavsfan_osiris]

I would find it unbelievable if anyone thinks Delonte West is a better player than Mo Williams. The last time those two went head-2-head sums up how big of a difference I feel there is between the two.

Mo Williams came into the NBA raw and improved his game ten-fold. His shooting, his handles, his ability to create off the dribble all huge improvements from when he first came in. Delonte West is exactly the same player right now that he was 3 years ago.

[msiris]

I would find it unbelievable if anyone thinks Delonte West is a better player than Mo Williams. The last time those two went head-2-head sums up how big of a difference I feel there is between the two.

Mo Williams came into the NBA raw and improved his game ten-fold. His shooting, his handles, his ability to create off the dribble all huge improvements from when he first came in. Delonte West is exactly the same player right now that he was 3 years ago.

I am not a Mo fan, but even I know he is better than West.

[GrandAdmiralDan]

Can you aggregate the salary of the player who gets signed in a sign and trade with the salaries of other players on his team of origin? If so, I'd gladly do Mo for Varejao, West on a 3 year deal and a pick.

Yes.

As the Cavs fan mentioned, Delonte West would be BYC in that S&T, so that would have to be accounted for, but it could still be made to work with a little massaging.

[old skool]

I don't understand how Varejão can turn down a trade. Players don't have the option of rejecting trades. Varejão could turn down a trade if it involved him signing a free agent contract - as in a sign and trade. But that is it.

This sounds like a rumor without basis. A rumor that can't be true.

Am I missing something?

oLd sKool

[cavsfan_osiris]

I don't understand how Varejão can turn down a trade. Players don't have the option of rejecting trades. Varejão could turn down a trade if it involved him signing a free agent contract - as in a sign and trade. But that is it.

This sounds like a rumor without basis. A rumor that can't be true.

Am I missing something?

oLd sKool

NBA Salary Cap FAQ

85. When can't a player be traded? Can players be given "no-trade" clauses in their contracts?

...teams cannot trade players under the following circumstances:

For one year after exercising the right of first refusal to keep a restricted free agent (however, the player can consent to a trade to any team except the team that tried to sign him).

When a team exercises their ROFR (matching offer sheet) they cannot trade the player within a year without the player's consent.

[power4wardjinx]

I would find it unbelievable if anyone thinks Delonte West is a better player than Mo Williams. The last time those two went head-2-head sums up how big of a difference I feel there is between the two.

Mo Williams came into the NBA raw and improved his game ten-fold. His shooting, his handles, his ability to create off the dribble all huge improvements from when he first came in. Delonte West is exactly the same player right now that he was 3 years ago.

One word - Defense. Mo literally looks lost running an offense and is a terrible, terrible defender. How many Bucks games do Michael Redd and Mo Williams have to lose before its understood that some of these guys on other teams simply play a better brand of basketball than the guys we have? Bucks guards are rates so highly by too many Bucks fans, and its the stat line. Watch some games. Delonte did a helluva job in the playoffs.

I would take just about any combo of guards over Mo and Redd with everybody else on our roster, and I bet the Bucks would be in the playoffs.

Delonte was coming on as a Celtic in 2007 putting up 29, 31 points a game, sending Rondo to the bench. He's not at all the same player he was in college, but if you want look at that, he averaged 23 pts a game for St. Joe's playing guard with Jameer Nelson. That's pretty good, better what every team was looking at this year. They were 27-0 regular season and made the final 8. Cavsfan, almost everything you've said about Delonte West just doesn't turn out, does it?

You're stuck with him, though because the Morning News is reporting that Ferry went to Moscow, talked to Dynamo - they don't have any more money after signing Nachbar, so ... West to Dynamo was BS from Delonte's agent. You're stuck with him, and he'll be paid the same $4 mill a year that Gibson got.

[power4wardjinx]

I don't understand how Varejão can turn down a trade. Players don't have the option of rejecting trades. Varejão could turn down a trade if it involved him signing a free agent contract - as in a sign and trade. But that is it.

This sounds like a rumor without basis. A rumor that can't be true.

Am I missing something?

oLd sKool

Yes, missing something. Charlie Bell had the same circumstances last year because the Bucks matched Miami's offer sheet. We could not trade him for a year without his consent. Under NO circumstances for a year after we matched the offer could the Bucks have traded Bell to Miami.

W/ Varejao, because he held out until Charlotte came up with an offer that the Cavs matched Dec. 5 last year, he has the right to approve or deny any trade until Dec. 5 -- with the exception of Charlotte. He can't be traded to Charlotte, period, until after that date.

[power4wardjinx]

word out of Cleveland is that Varejao and his agent, Dan Fegan, have already turned down one trade and that the trade they rejected was likely to the Bucks

Where was this reported?

Brian Windhorst reported it in the Akron Beacon Journal before the Yi trade and the draft. The source is Fegan, Varejao's agent.

http://www.ohiomm.com/blogs/cavs/2008/0 ... ao-rumors/

[NeedsMoreCheese]

I would find it unbelievable if anyone thinks Delonte West is a better player than Mo Williams. The last time those two went head-2-head sums up how big of a difference I feel there is between the two.

Mo Williams came into the NBA raw and improved his game ten-fold. His shooting, his handles, his ability to create off the dribble all huge improvements from when he first came in. Delonte West is exactly the same player right now that he was 3 years ago.

One word - Defense. Mo literally looks lost running an offense and is a terrible, terrible defender. How many Bucks games do Michael Redd and Mo Williams have to lose before its understood that some of these guys on other teams simply play a better brand of basketball than the guys we have? Bucks guards are rates so highly by too many Bucks fans, and its the stat line. Watch some games. Delonte did a helluva job in the playoffs.

I would take just about any combo of guards over Mo and Redd with everybody else on our roster, and I bet the Bucks would be in the playoffs.

Delonte was coming on as a Celtic in 2007 putting up 29, 31 points a game, sending Rondo to the bench. He's not at all the same player he was in college, but if you want look at that, he averaged 23 pts a game for St. Joe's playing guard with Jameer Nelson. That's pretty good, better what every team was looking at this year. They were 27-0 regular season and made the final 8. Cavsfan, almost everything you've said about Delonte West just doesn't turn out, does it?

You're stuck with him, though because the Morning News is reporting that Ferry went to Moscow, talked to Dynamo - they don't have any more money after signing Nachbar, so ... West to Dynamo was BS from Delonte's agent. You're stuck with him, and he'll be paid the same $4 mill a year that Ferry got.

What?

[power4wardjinx]

Uhh, yeah, Delonte was filling it up in Boston at the end of '07. His last 30 games as a Celtic he averaged about 15 points a game and had scoring nights of 31, 28, 23, 23, 21 19, 19 etc. etc. Nobody probably noticed. Rondo ended up on the bench watching him.

check it out for yerself http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/ ... &year=2007

Did you misread that post? You know West was a Celtic last year, right, went to Seattle in the Ray Allen trade and ended up in Cleveland?