Andrew Bogut vs Brad Miller

Andrew Bogut · Post #41 » by **Andrew Bogut** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 6:31 pm

Milwaukee winters definitely.

MartyConlonOnTheRun · Post #42 » by **MartyConlonOnTheRun** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 6:55 pm

Andrew Bogut wrote:Milwaukee winters definitely.

I know this is a joke, (i think) but I could definitely see Bogut posting on here eating a cheeseburger.

fam3381 · Post #43 » by **fam3381** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 7:03 pm

MartyConlonOnTheRun wrote:I know this is a joke, (i think) but I could definitely see Bogut posting on here eating a cheeseburger.

I hope not--it's 5 am in Australia right now

Andrew Bogut · Post #44 » by **Andrew Bogut** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 8:17 pm

I was having breakfast then, not a cheeseburger sorry, and now I just got back from the gym.

GHOSTofSIKMA · Post #45 » by **GHOSTofSIKMA** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 8:44 pm

Andrew Bogut wrote:I was having breakfast then, not a cheeseburger sorry, and now I just got back from the gym.

prove its you. what kind of car did you drive while at Utah? the real andrew would know this of course...lol

Chapter29 · Post #46 » by **Chapter29** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 8:57 pm

So MD did that post come from Australia?

Either way welcome to the forum Andrew Bogut.

Post #47 » by **paulpressey25** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:41 pm

Just so we don't have a riot here, this is not the real "Andrew Bogut" posting.

msiris · Post #48 » by **msiris** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:42 pm

Chapter29 wrote:Who really cares where Bogut or Miller were drafted? I mean seriously.

Bogut is a good player and I will judge him on how he performs regardless of his draft position. Much like I didn't consider Joe Smith a bust, but rather a pretty good player.

Did the Bucks make a mistake drafting Bogut? Perhaps, but he is far from a bust and is quite a nice player. Hindsight is 20/20. Bogut is probably still in the top 3 of his draft class and a player whom I am happy to build around.

Good point DB. I hate these kinds of threads. Hard to find a good center these days.

msiris · Post #49 » by **msiris** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:44 pm

paulpressey25 wrote:Just so we don't have a riot here, this is not the real "Andrew Bogut" posting.

No kidding.

Chapter29 · Post #50 » by **Chapter29** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 10:17 pm

paulpressey25 wrote:Just so we don't have a riot here, this is not the real "Andrew Bogut" posting.

lol

icat2000 · Post #51 » by **icat2000** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 10:50 pm

I would hope that Andrew is far too busy training with the Boomers to be chowing down on burgers at 5 am.

bucks59 · Post #52 » by **bucks59** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 11:20 pm

The best comparisoin you can do is compare him to other people in his draft. Both Paul and Williams are substantially better than he is and will have better careers. The only other guy that people might debate as better than Bogut is Bynum. He is younger, and he did have a good first half last year, but at the same time, he cant be fully evaluated until after he returns from his injury and plays meaningful NBA games.

Im not a big Bogut fan, but to be fair, the Bucks still got decent talent. With the number one pick, you obviously want a superstar, like a Lebron James. But you also dont want an Olwakandi or Kwame Brown. Sure, the Bucks could have had Paul or Williams, but Bogut is not a bad consolation prize. He'll probably play in a couple of all star games before his career is done and have a couple of seasons around 18-10. Those arent HOF numbers but they also aren't Kwame Brown numbers. Given everything, you cant be too upset with Bogut as the pick there. At least he can contribute and maybe make some all star games.

Post #53 » by **paulpressey25** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 12:08 am

old skool wrote: While Chris Paul and Deron Williams look attractive from a distance, there is no way the Bucks fan base or management would have accepted either player as the first pick in the draft. The Bucks had been suffering for years with nothing but perimeter players and a lack of size inside. Bogut solved a longstanding problem for the Bucks.

You can sometimes find a player later in the draft who will become a near All-Star at point guard. You hardly ever find a center who will become a near All-Star outside of the lottery.

This is probably the best post I've seen on this subject. As much as the Chris Paul thing drives me crazy and may ultimately cost Milwaukee our franchise someday, in reality Paul far exceeded realistic expectations and Bogut probably underachieved his first three years when compared to realistic expectations.

If we have either of those guys do what was expected of them, we'd all be happy with Bogut over Paul.

bucks59 · Post #54 » by **bucks59** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 12:10 am

I blame TJ Ford more than any other thing for messing up that pick. We had Ford and Mo Williams, there was no need to draft another PG, especially when we had a huge hole at the center position. Our draft debates would have been substantially more interesting if we only had Mo.

jerrod · Post #55 » by **jerrod** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 12:17 am

paulpressey25 wrote:Just so we don't have a riot here, this is not the real "Andrew Bogut" posting.

*deep breath* NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!

If we have either of those guys do what was expected of them, we'd all be happy with Bogut over Paul.

that's some professional level rationalizing, pp.

there were people that thought paul would be better than bogut, they were the minority but they were right.

power4wardjinx · Post #56 » by **power4wardjinx** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 12:23 am

It's completely valid to compare him to guys in his draft, to other number one picks, to every past Bucks lottery or number one pick and to other centers in the NBA. Comparing him to Howard, Yao, Kwame, Joe Smith (throw in guys like Bynum, Horford, Darko and high draft pick big men of the last few years) and we come to the conclusion that Bogut was a solid number one center pick and a strong lottery pick in general.

Other than Howard, who's played in 328 straight games since coming out of high school, it's difficult to find a durable big man who can hold his own in the paint. Yao's missed a lot of games the last three years and Bogut is starting to outplay him. Kwame's a bust as a number one. Smith was hurt so much early in his career that fans started to forget he was on the T-Wolves (I did anyway). Bynum's coming off of injury. Looking at other guys, Ilgauskas and Dalembert were hurt for much of their first three seasons. Chandler sucked for most of his early career.

All these comparisons, and it comes out the same - many #1 pick big men, lottery big men and first round centers wherever they were taken fared much worse than Bogut. And who's to say you can't eat a cheeseburger for breakfast in Australia?

randy84 · Post #57 » by **randy84** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 1:05 am

bucks59 wrote:I blame TJ Ford more than any other thing for messing up that pick. We had Ford and Mo Williams, there was no need to draft another PG, especially when we had a huge hole at the center position. Our draft debates would have been substantially more interesting if we only had Mo.

Didn't Ford get hurt the year before we drafted Bogut? I maybe wrong, but I thought there was concern that Ford wouldn't be able to return, so I think that would've opened the door to drafting a PG.

Nowak008 · Post #58 » by **Nowak008** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 1:31 am

paulpressey25 wrote:Just so we don't have a riot here, this is not the real "Andrew Bogut" posting.

Prove it. It appears he has inside sources.

GrandAdmiralDan · Post #59 » by **GrandAdmiralDan** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 1:40 am

randy84 wrote:
bucks59 wrote:I blame TJ Ford more than any other thing for messing up that pick. We had Ford and Mo Williams, there was no need to draft another PG, especially when we had a huge hole at the center position. Our draft debates would have been substantially more interesting if we only had Mo.

Didn't Ford get hurt the year before we drafted Bogut? I maybe wrong, but I thought there was concern that Ford wouldn't be able to return, so I think that would've opened the door to drafting a PG.

It was determined shortly before the draft that Ford would be able to return with no physical limitations or adverse risks, so Ford not returning wasn't factoring into our decision.

But that's kind of beside the point. It was between Andrew Bogut and Marvin Williams. Not only for us, a team that seemingly had a good situation at PG with Ford and Mo, but also Atlanta was looking at either Bogut or Marvin, whichever one we didn't take, despite the fact that Atlanta needed a PG in the worst way.

I was a proponent of Atlanta drafting Chris Paul (I never suggested we should have) instead of Marvin Williams, but that was because I thought Atlanta REALLY needed a PG and already had a few SFs and tweener SF/PFs like Marvin. I agreed that Marvin would be the better pro than Chris Paul, but I thought you had to look a little at need considering the circumstances.

power4wardjinx · Post #60 » by **power4wardjinx** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 8:01 am

Bogut, remember, was MVP as the Aussies won the world junior championship in 2003, was 1st-Team All-American, won the Naismith and the Wooden award and I'm probably forgetting some other accolades he had coming in. Drafting him was obviousness and he should be compared to Howard, to Kareem, to anybody who plays center at #1 pick or 2 or 3 or anybody who plays his position. He's come up short in a lot of ways, given where he was drafted (Dalembert kills him; Bynum outplayed him; but then he outplayed Yao and Detroit looks really uncomfortable going against him, etc.) but in many other ways he's been better than so many big picks at #1; and to bring it into his own draft, he's just fine stacked up against Marvin Williams and he didn't miss all of last year like Bynum did.

Drafting Bogut was probably the finest thing Larry Harris ever did (I know, that's not saying much) and it's good to have a good center who likes to mix it up in the paint. He needs to develop a scoring shot a la Kareem but also look at the **** team he plays on and his lack of opportunities in three years. His development has been thwarted big time in Milwaukee. Last year was our first glimpse at seeing the Bucks as a team that cared about its #1 pick center and had the coach behind him. That delivered some results and some interest beyond the usual Milwaukee Redds crap, though it caused some problems and got the coach fired ...

Why carry this discussion here? Here are the ultimate center rankings:

http://community.sportsbubbler.com/blog ... -post.aspx

Brad Miller!??!? Please.