Redd's Future Here

[raferfenix]

What do people think----will Redd be here long term? On paper his game seems to mesh with what Jefferson and Bogut bring to the table, but their three huge contracts will make it tough to keep them even if that is the case.

I'm not really sold that we're keeping him long term unless he improves his effort on defense and on rebounding. Our team's biggest problem has been the lazy and selfish attitude we have, and almost all of Hammond's moves have been based on acquiring players to fixthis. The worst of the Alexander detractors can attest to this no doubt. . Unless Redd can get with the program in that department I see us looking for a trade, if only because some other team will value him more than we do and put up a trade we can't refuse at some point.

Anyways, a Redd trade would certainly be unexpected and by all indications it seems like we're not planning on making a big deal like that before training camp. We'll see how this develops though, as as badly as Skiles and Hammond want to have a defensive minded team we still have a lot of players who are just horrid on that side of the floor playing big roles. As of now we're assured to run with lineups including Ridnour, Redd, and CV all playing at hte same time, and I just can't see Skiles or Hammond being satisfied with the kidn of defense we'd have with that lineup.

[midranger]

We have 3 guys on huge contracts who are middle of the road at their positions. Around this "core" we've surrounded them with pure poop.

I guess I just don't see the point.

Keep Bogut, dump the rest.

[ReasonablySober]

I think after this season no one on the roster is going to be safe.

[WEFFPIM]

I think after this season no one on the roster is going to be safe.

Signing Bogut to a massive contract would lead me to believe he's safe. Everyone else though is up for grabs.

[jeremyd236]

How can you judge "who is safe" after this season before the season has been played? Are you assuming we're going to be bad or are you saying that nobody will be safe regardless of how we play?

Because if we improve a lot and have great chemistry with our new (and experienced) coach, I could see many people "being safe". Of course this all depends on how each player plays and how they fit, etc. but I think if our team wins 42 games, at least a few players on the roster are safe.

[midranger]

Are you assuming we're going to be bad

After being a Bucks fan for the past 20 years or so, I'd say that assumption is a safe one.

And, my God I hope if we win 42 games this mess is blown apart. Where is the potential to greatly improve going to come from?

[jeremyd236]

Are you assuming we're going to be bad

After being a Bucks fan for the past 20 years or so, I'd say that assumption is a safe one.

And, my God I hope if we win 42 games this mess is blown apart. Where is the potential to greatly improve going to come from?

We have 2 new starters and a great coach. How many times in the last 20 years have we had a "great" coach? We were bad when we had "great" coaches?

I think coaches are really underrated on this board. Name a team that gets far in the league with an average coach. There are few exceptions....Mike Brown, Doc Rivers (I don't think he's a good coach), but that's because of star power. Star power is something we don't have.

And don't pretend 42 wins isn't an improvement. When the Celtics won the Finals this year, all the sports guys were talking about how "scary" they're going to be next year or even the year after, because this was their first year together and they already won it all. Sometimes it takes a while for guys to gel and for a coach to implement his system on the team. Unfortunately for the Bucks, consistency with our roster is something we haven't had for a while. Every season season or so we've had a new coach, new starters, etc.

So if a team tht dominated the regular season and won the NBA finals has room to improve, I'd expect a team that improves 15 games or so in one season can still improve more.

[MickeyDavis]

I'll wait and see how the team actually plays with a new coach and several new players before deciding if/how Redd fits in.

[raferfenix]

I'll wait and see how the team actually plays with a new coach and several new players before deciding if/how Redd fits in.

See this thread is also my speculation that Redd might not be as safe on the team as many assume he is. Granted Hammond and Skiles have mostly suggested we're goign with this roster into the season, and Redd himself discussed how he felt when he worried about being traded in the past tense.

However, I'm just not sure how committed ot this core our team really is. If we're not that committed and the right trade comes around, then it's much more likely we bail on that trio experiment than we otherwise would. Hammond could be just posturing and trying to raise Redd's trade value, as he certainly talked up Yi a lot before we bailed on him.

[coolhandluke121]

I'll wait and see how the team actually plays with a new coach and several new players before deciding if/how Redd fits in.

I don't know man. I mean, it goes without saying that you can't predict the future and therefore you have to wait and see - anybody can come along and say that as a blanket statement in response to any prediction anybody ever makes. That's not the great insight that you and several other posters on this board have passed it off as.

The point is that a lot of the naysayers are making the most well-educated guess they can make based on the circumstances, and I for one am firmly in the camp that says it's not realistic to expect the Bucks to be good this year or anytime in the near future. Do you really think we're coming to conclusions without any data whatsoever? There's a lot of data here - most importantly Redd's play the past 4-5 years, the individual achievements of the guys on the roster, and the sparsity of teams that have been successful with similar overall talent to what the Bucks have.

ETA: Oops, my bad - we're just talking about Redd's future with the team and not about the team's prospects in general. Nonetheless, the dynamic is the same as when I suggested the Bucks should have rebuilt and so many posters made the same sort of tart reply.

[midranger]

Well said Coolhandluke. These are prediction threads. Just because you like Max doesn't mean this team doesn't suck on paper.

However, I'll wait and see this team too, but I can't imagine even the most optimistic fan picking us higher than 6th or 7th in the East this year (and even this I think is lofty, but within reason a possibilty). My issue is, where is the potential to improve upon that? Who are our young talents? Where are our high draft picks? Where is our cap room? What tradeable assets do we have?

I just don't see it.

Even if we finish 6th (again, VERY lofty) next year, I'm guessing we're pretty much locked into that for 3 years at which point we'll have the option to rebuild completely or attempt to recreate the same mediocrity. Frankly I just want a winner that is a threat to contend rather than perennial first round fodder for actual good teams.

[bigkurty]

Even if we finish 6th (again, VERY lofty) next year, I'm guessing we're pretty much locked into that for 3 years at which point we'll have the option to rebuild completely or attempt to recreate the same mediocrity. Frankly I just want a winner that is a threat to contend rather than perennial first round fodder for actual good teams.

Amen. If we do not see amazing results next year, I am of the opinion that we need to just drop Redd since he has meant nothing but mediocrity and I will never forgive his selfishness when freezing out Yi from getting his 30 in that game where Yi could have clearly gotten it without jeopardizing the win and in all honesty was the better FT option that game over Redd anyway.

[Id420]

redd is a lunatic glorymonger

as long as that piece of crap is on the team, we're gonna see redd alert at the end of every game.

if his minutes get cut, he's just gonna chuck up the same number of shots in limited minutes.

get rid of the bastard already... PLEASE

[bigkurty]

redd is a lunatic glorymonger

I totally agree as long as it is not the waning seconds of the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd quarter and he has to launch up a shot longer than 3 ft. behind the 3 point line. Then he just chucks up a shot after the buzzer or passes. What a great player.

[BDUB_30]

I was thinking about this the other day ..


I think youd have to be pretty blind and just flat out bias to fail to see how selfish redd has been. He is afterall a throwback to the Big 3 and the similarities are stunning . Same me first attitude that ray and glenn showed , stats first , win second , no defense , no passing ..



Point being is his nba carrer is on the line in some aspects and without a doubt his nba legacy . If he fails to conform , he will be out . If we see the same crap weve seen from him the past few seasons , he will be gone and you can kiss his nba legacy goodbye .


Nba legacy ? Yeah , players statistical accompliments that they achieve while playing for one team are without a doubt part of their " legacy " ..As much as i hate to admit it , if redd conforms , he could go down as one of the all time greatest bucks , statisticaly ... IF NOT * gulp* the greatest . I would hope he understands whats at stake here .. IF he comes out with that same selfish , no pasing , no intensity , poor decision making play .. i doubt he even makes it to the trade deadline .. Then he can get bounced from team to team over the next 6 seasons like Ray and Glenn did ..



You would have to think , just common sense would tell you . That he is aware of this . That he is on thin ice and has more to lose then anyone on this roster . Im excited to see if he can pull it off , Ray Allen actually conformed and played the best ball of his carrer as a 3rd option type player . Id like to see redd do the same thing . Take the offense as it comes to you , be decisive with the ball in regards to the pass , do not hold the ball when it comes to you for 4 seconds killing our clock while you decide what youre gonna do ... Play a little LESS on offense and put that energy into defense .


Im fairly certain if he conforms he will be an asset to this team . his jumper is butter , he is veryy crafty going to the hole , underated finisher IMO .. but i think Ilhan was on to something .. he is of the opionon that redd is NOT a spot up shooter and that he needs that hand in his face , he needs to be challenged .. It is a possiblity , such ball players excist ... lets hope hes not because if redd truly needs the ball and needs to fiddle with it to be effective ... we got big problems . Im giving him the benifit of the doubt but if he comes out with that same ME FIRST play and gets into a pissing match with RJ ....man , i wont even bother watching this team ..I mean is redd really willing to give up the team scoring leader to RJ ? IMO RJ is more of a 20 ppg scorer then redd is , rj's 20 wont hurt you ...redd imho , is a cap 18ppg scorer on average ...anything over that and hes hurting your club .

[BDUB_30]

Are you assuming we're going to be bad

After being a Bucks fan for the past 20 years or so, I'd say that assumption is a safe one.

And, my God I hope if we win 42 games this mess is blown apart. Where is the potential to greatly improve going to come from?

so basically their is nothing the bucks can possible do to please you is basically what youre saying ..



i mean , a 42 win season for you is still worthy of blowing this team up ? Improving isnt worth anything ?


what about just not gauging the teams succses in terms of wins and loses and be content with having a team that plays hard everynight ? ... Thats basicaly where im at with this club . Weve watched literally 15 years of basketball in milwaukee here were the vast majority of our players would simply not try AT ALL on any given night .. For the first time in a long time we could possibly see a real basketball team here .. ya know , one that comes to play every single night ... win or lose .



thats something to be excited about ...what if we got that , just a hardworking team that plays both ends of the court and works together ... youd still want to " blow it up " and roll the dice on questionable work ethic players ? this teams one consitancy with all the moves is not " defense " oriented .. but guys that are going to compete every single night . play hard every night .. im excited as hell .. this is gonna be real basketball in milwaukee ...who gives a **** about the wins at this point ..

[raferfenix]

The potential game changer for the Bucks for this year vs. the last 20 is that we have committed to perhaps the most intense and defensive minded coach in the league.

This is why I think Redd is on much thinner ice than others do. Skiles has a REALLY short leash for players not willing to go all out on defense, and even just money wise it's not wroth paying Redd 14 mill a year if he's not going to earn 38 minutes a ngiht by playing that kind of ball.

[showtimesam]

I can't believe some fans...

If we win 42 games it means we showed alot of improvement under Skiles first season as our coach. Furthermore it means that we have a building block of three upper level players (bogut, redd, jefferson) that have plenty of good seasons left in their careers.

And where does improvement come from there?

Well lets see, Bogut, Sessions, Alexander all have great potential. Plus Ridnour could be a player that could be alot better than he's shown to date.

And finally, we finally have a GM that seems to have a clue as to what he's doing. Good Gm's can find talent with late 1st round picks, 2nd round picks, and mid level exceptions in free agency.

So lets give this team a chance even though some of our favorite losers are now off the team.

[unklchuk]

Glad to see you gentlemen are keeping yourselves busy during the dead zone by contemplating your belly button lint. Does it taste a bit like olives? Someone said it does if you work out regularly and don't shower much. (But you have to wear cotton Ts and shirts. Polyester lint, they say, has no taste.)

Blah, blah, blah. Blah, blah, blah, blah. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. There, that's what I think on this topic. Trust you'll find it up to my usual standards.

[emunney]

You had to post that just as I began eating olives.