Woelfel: Bogut held accountable for first time as Buck

[bayrdbandit]

I think Lawrybeard quoted the wrong post by mistake.

And now that I've been a teacher in a tough urban school for a few months, have a better sense of the tactics of manipulators and cancerous personalities. I kind of think Bogut is one of them but on the other hand I think he is genuinely interested in being part of a winning basketball team so I'm okay with his inconsistency bordering on instability.

bogut wears his emotions on the outside. when he quits on the team we see it clearly. when others quit they do it by not playing as a team, they play how they wanna play, they do what they wanna do. but at the end of the day, they've done the exact same thing. they've quit.

[paulpressey25]

Redd better realize that the likes of Alexander, the prince, and Bell will bust there collective asses and give effort and energy everytime they play, if Redd doesn't, he will be watching those guys and finally get the true meaning of being held accountable. .

I think that all sounds good in theory, and I like it. The reality is we've paid Redd so much dough and for so many years that he really doesn't have to care. And we did the same for Mo Williams. And now have given Bogut 60 million reasons as well. Although of the three of them, I think we'll have less to worry about with Bogut.

If Redd doesn't work out his season, you can maybe make Redd sixth man....maybe. But he's got to be a 35mpg guy at least until the trade deadline when maybe Hammond could get lucky. But you can't bench him. Otherwise you've just sunk your team with $51 million of complete dead weight. You've got to keep Redd going enough to deal him. Again assuming Redd doesn't flourish with his new teammates. He might flourish. We'll know in 45-days.

[Epicurus]

I think there is a big difference between say a ball hog and someone who does not reaches for passes or tiptoes rebound opportunities. Both are not team ball, but only one is really quiting on the team. Ball hog or the like is just how some see the game and have since they have played it. Everyone knows they should reach for passes and rebounds, but declining to it is the behavior of someone who has quit.

[Epicurus]

Redd better realize that the likes of Alexander, the prince, and Bell will bust there collective asses and give effort and energy everytime they play, if Redd doesn't, he will be watching those guys and finally get the true meaning of being held accountable. .

I think that all sounds good in theory, and I like it. The reality is we've paid Redd so much dough and for so many years that he really doesn't have to care. And we did the same for Mo Williams. And now have given Bogut 60 million reasons as well. Although of the three of them, I think we'll have less to worry about with Bogut.

If Redd doesn't work out his season, you can maybe make Redd sixth man....maybe. But he's got to be a 35mpg guy at least until the trade deadline when maybe Hammond could get lucky. But you can't bench him. Otherwise you've just sunk your team with $51 million of complete dead weight. You've got to keep Redd going enough to deal him. Again assuming Redd doesn't flourish with his new teammates. He might flourish. We'll know in 45-days.

I think it is completely wrong to say Redd did not or does not care. The guy plays hard (hell, just look at his sweat). He had a very difficult offensive roll--to both be an outsider shooter and to be about the only creator on a drive. You and I or others may not like how he chose to play, but he certainly cares. But you are correct==that benching your highest paid guy who is recognized as a good player and replacing him with what would be foolhearty.

[icat2000]

I think there is a big difference between say a ball hog and someone who does not reaches for passes or tiptoes rebound opportunities. Both are not team ball, but only one is really quiting on the team. Ball hog or the like is just how some see the game and have since they have played it. Everyone knows they should reach for passes and rebounds, but declining to it is the behavior of someone who has quit.

As is refusing to play a lick of defense.

[Alice]

cmon epi let it go, that was 3 years ago, he a 21 year old kid that made mistakes and had some growing up to do, i certainly didn't see him quit at all last year, in fact he gave more effort than he ever has. i understood your resentment at the time, and i dont deny that you have a point.

bogut also was under a lot of pressure with the no 1 pick thing, everyone calling him a bust with paul and deron getting all the love. he was used to being the man at utah, and gets thrown into a guard heavy, shoot quick offense. that all had to be a lot to deal with.

[paulpressey25]

I think it is completely wrong to say Redd did not or does not care.

I probably used the wrong terminology. How about refuses to listen or change the way he plays. Maybe that more aptly describes the challenges Skiles faces.

No question he cared when he ripped the ball from Yi's hands last year to deny Yi his 30-point game.

[Epicurus]

cmon epi let it go, that was 3 years ago, he a 21 year old kid that made mistakes and had some growing up to do, i certainly didn't see him quit at all last year, in fact he gave more effort than he ever has. i understood your resentment at the time, and i dont deny that you have a point.

bogut also was under a lot of pressure with the no 1 pick thing, everyone calling him a bust with paul and deron getting all the love. he was used to being the man at utah, and gets thrown into a guard heavy, shoot quick offense. that all had to be a lot to deal with.

I must have misread the topic of this thread--I thought it was about Bogut finally being held accountable as he had not in the past, according to Bogut. I could swear I supported his contention by relaying a time in the past when he should have been disciplined severely and wasn't.

[Alice]

sorry i miss read you, it read to me like you were still bitter.

[Joana]

(...)There were several other times that I thought an obvious benching for discipline was needed. But again you need front office support for it. Skiles has that now and good for him. It makes coaching more possible.(...)

Very well said. A coach can try his best to enforce standards of discipline and instill cohesion, but if the management is going to play the nice cop afterwards and gently pad the prevaricators backs, telling them "I feel your pain, don't worry", even implicitly, his efforts will be frustrated and the water hole will be poisoned. Intuitively, I feel this has been a major problem with the Bucks in the previous seasons.

To echo others, I have no doubts that Skiles did the right thing. Bogut is talking the talk, showing the proper mindset, let's see if he can walk the walk.