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MO-Will Sells out the Bucks

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midranger
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Re: MO-Will Sells out the Bucks 

Post#101 » by midranger » Tue Oct 28, 2008 2:45 am

Or...

Bogut: "There is an I in team, and I've quit on the team a lot. I can't believe I'm just now being called on it."
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Re: MO-Will Sells out the Bucks 

Post#102 » by austuf » Tue Oct 28, 2008 2:48 am

:)
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Re: MO-Will Sells out the Bucks 

Post#103 » by lawrybeard » Tue Oct 28, 2008 2:53 am

midranger wrote:
Joana wrote:
That still doesn't excuse his lack of good-manners.


You're not serious I hope. The NBA is a business. One day your team is giving you a multiyear deal, the next they're trading you away. There's no good manners in that. If people appreciate Bogut's "honesty" about hating Kobe Bryant and being disgusted with American culture, I'd think most could except the fact that Mo spoke the truth about his former team's coaches and GM (none of whom are still here by the way, presumably because Kohl felt the same way Mo did).

Team defense is an over-rated concept and Mo is taking advantage of that to trash his former organization, teammates and coaches - he's telling the truth, but only the convenient truth (except if he was misquoted or quoted selectively, as suggested). Good defenders, or potential good defenders, have pride in what they do. If Mo was concerned about his and the team defense, he should also have said, at some point during his tenure here, "It's my fault", "that guy killed me, I got caught in every pick they set, I just wasn't good enough to slow him down a bit and that's a shame".


We had a lot of awful defenders last year. All teams do. How many times have you heard anyone in the NBA utter those words? Never. I'm sure Mo did not intend to try to absolve himself of his awful D, he was commenting on the team as a whole inclusive of himself. If anything, Redd should have been that guy making comments like those above given his status, pay, and tenure.

Krystkowiak and Harris also share lots of blame on this, they should have called out the players strongly during the last season. Larry K. could have said, to use midranger's example, "yeah, teams are creaming us with screen/rolls, but you know, we are going under, and that's not a very smart way of defending most p'n'r situations, I just have to use it because my personnel simply doesn't care enough to learn and improve to the point of allowing us to try something different and not being this predictable, they're just that bad". Here, I think Skiles will make an impact.



Larry K did the drop under the pick routine, which our PGs sucked at. Stotts employed the show and recover which Bogut was awful at. I can't remember how Porter defended the pick and roll, but you can bet we were terrible at it. At some point, you look to the players and the coach's inability to get through to them. This comes back to player leadership (lack there of) and why Redd needs to be traded. There was no atmosphere of defensive pride (what Mo was getting at) or accountability (what Bogut was getting at) and that's why the Prince and Skiles will be so important moving forward as you certainly state later in your post.

The first step has to be dumping Redd, followed closely by Bogut if he continues to decide to just not show up to games.


I love the Johnnie Cochran defence. I have no idea what the relevance of the rebuttal above was, but at the conclusion I was left with an overwhelming feeling of Bogut sucks. Why this has anything to do with Mo and his matador defence I have no idea...

The line "If people appreciate Bogut's "honesty" about hating Kobe Bryant and being disgusted with American culture" for me was an absolute clincher despite lacking accuracy.
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Re: MO-Will Sells out the Bucks 

Post#104 » by old skool » Tue Oct 28, 2008 2:57 am

What I recall about the 2000-01 Bucks is that they frequently played down (or up) to the level of their competition. They would often spend 40-minutes in a close game and take over at the end to win. Not just eke out a win, but win the final minutes by double digits.

Often their defense was part of the game ending surge. Ervin Johnson was a stud that year - in an admittedly weak Eastern Conference. Ervin came off the bench during the season, but when the playoffs came, he was forced to become a starter. Mark Pope could not match EJ's effort - not even for ten minutes.

Of course that team relied on veterans who could not play 35-minutes a game night after night. Johnson and Scott Williams were near the end of their line. Even Lindsey Hunter looked worn out by the end of the year, struggling to hit even 20% from 3FGA territory.

My point is that whatever their opponent FGA% was, it was better than that down the stretch of a game. they could and did tighten the screws when they had to.

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Re: MO-Will Sells out the Bucks 

Post#105 » by smauss » Tue Oct 28, 2008 4:24 am

Joana wrote:
smauss wrote:Individual man defense is not rocket science. It's knowing what your guy likes to do and making it as difficult as possible for him to do it. It takes much effort and hustle and a knowledge of your opponent. In simple terms you try to beat your man to the spot. Reacting to screens, switching, and help rotations is more of a coach/team policy and can change within a game. Are there guys more gifted on the defensive end? Absolutely, but being an adequate or serviceable defender is not out of reach for any NBA player if they desire it IMHO.


We have different opinions, smauss. I think that what you say it's easier to be said than done. If not, the Utah Jazz - well coached team, good teachers in the coaching staff, players go out there with desire and toughness - would probably be the NBA Champions. But they only have a good defender in the starting line-up and I don't see the situation changing on the foreseeable future. Desire and effort is important, but it also takes athleticism, lateral quickness, instincts, technique and fundamentals (how many NBA players don't execute that mantra coaches repeat ad infinitum at lower levels "a** low, hands up" when closing out?; there are tons of players with terrible bad habits...), savvy and reputation ( for example, LRMAM lacks those last two and that will hurt him). And, for instance, the ability to talk. Many players simply have an hard time talking when they are playing and no one can be a good defender if he's only mumbling out there and nobody understands him.

I think players can and should improve on every aspect of the game, no matter how old or established they are. But it's not that easy... Effort can transform atrocious defenders into just bellow average defenders, who can be hided. But without 2 or 3 really good defenders, who can slow down the opponent best players and hide the deficiencies of their own teammates who are bellow average defenders, it's really hard to construct a good defensive team.


I think you answered your own difference of opinion with me by the bolded portion. Lack of importance placed on defense, especially in the early years. Defense, for most players, requires aspects that are anathema with many kids in our culture, self discipline and hard work. I don't mean that to sound like I'm some old coot who has it in for young folks but there is a significant emphasis placed on doing what you like and enjoy; and defense, for most players and kids, isn't it! You are correct in that lateral quickness and instincts are extremely important but lets face it Joana, these aren't pimply faced ninth graders who trip over their own feet, they are some of the greatest athletes in the world. And as I mentioned, there are guys who just excel at defense but I simply don't believe that there are many, if any, NBA players who simply don't have the physical abilities to be at least an average defender. I'm also not saying that an NBA team can contend with all average defenders but if all were at least average it would transform many teams including our bucks. There has been and will continue to be guys who are just very gifted on the offensive end, and teams will have to find ways to try to slow them down as one guy just can't do it alone. There will also be IMHO a much smaller percentage of guys who are gifted on the defensive end and can shut down most guys and if your truly blessed, one guy will have the whole package, but where I see the decline is in the rest of the players and I believe it has much less to do with ability and more to do with priority, fundamentals, self-discipline and desire.

Joana, I know we disagree on this point but I have always respected and enjoyed your posts, and admittedly agree with most of them - keep posting my friend!
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Re: MO-Will Sells out the Bucks 

Post#106 » by europa » Tue Oct 28, 2008 7:38 pm

Mo's better off because he's on a better team where he will be held accountable for his play on both ends of the court.

The Bucks are better off because they rid themselves of a major team cancer who was impacting this team negatively and failing to lead the team properly.

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