Gerald Wallace Being Traded?

[InsideOut]

bigkurty...you are my hero.

So you want to trade Redd for three stiffs that cannot defend too? Haha.

I never said that. Besides, we'd have to take 5 stiffs to get a team to take Redd. I just agree with his description of Redd's game. He is a Marbury or Francis that wears a halo instead of carrying a pitchfork. No team paying a non-special SG the max has ever won anything. But let's keep him and keep trying. It has worked well so far.

[LUKE23]

I never said that. Besides, we'd have to take 5 stiffs to get a team to take Redd. I just agree with his description of Redd's game. He is a Marbury or Francis that wears a halo instead of carrying a pitchfork. No team paying a non-special SG the max has ever won anything. But let's keep him and keep trying. It has worked well so far.

Yes, this team hasn't won because of Redd. It's not because:

1. They haven't had a legit coach since Redd has played big minutes
2. They haven't had a legit starting SF until this year with Redd
3. They haven't ever had a legit starting PF ever with Redd
4. None of the PG's paired with Redd have been able to defend

I'm not disillusioned about what Redd is. I realize his game is mostly scoring, and he brings little else. But the blame people put on him for this teams lack of success, while ignoring all of the above issues, is absolutely hilarious to me.

This team hasn't won because it has had insufficient talent, coaching, and chemistry for the last 6 years essentially. It's not losing because of Redd.

Is he overpaid? Yes. Is he essentially a one-dimensional player? Yes. Is he the reason we've sucked for half a decade? Not even close.

But yets, lets trade him for nothing in a year we're trying to establish something resembling respect. Sounds like a great plan!!!

And just for the record, I'm fine with trading the guy, but trading him for the sake of it, that makes no sense.

[REDDzone]

With all due respect...Patterson = dummy than a Rock...on a good day..... ...I do get your point though

[Newz]

I agree with Luke23 that the idea of trading Redd to Toronto for those three stiffs is miserable.

Kapono can shoot and does absolutely nothing else while being overpaid, Graham is nothing and Barganni looks like he is going to be a total bust.

One of the worst Redd trade ideas I have ever seen.

[bigkurty]

I never said that. Besides, we'd have to take 5 stiffs to get a team to take Redd. I just agree with his description of Redd's game. He is a Marbury or Francis that wears a halo instead of carrying a pitchfork. No team paying a non-special SG the max has ever won anything. But let's keep him and keep trying. It has worked well so far.

Thank You.

Oh and Luke23,
You must not be a Bucks fan Luke if you think Redd is not the reason we've sucked for half a decade. Kidding of course.
But yeah there are many reasons we have sucked but overpaid SG's who are nothing special are a negative asset IMO and especially so when on a max contract. SG's that can actually consistently lead teams to victory are very few and far between since SG is the most overrated position on the court. Tons of teams have SG's who are supposedly worse than ours but they are better teams since they put their talent at the positions which are more important.

[InsideOut]

I never said that. Besides, we'd have to take 5 stiffs to get a team to take Redd. I just agree with his description of Redd's game. He is a Marbury or Francis that wears a halo instead of carrying a pitchfork. No team paying a non-special SG the max has ever won anything. But let's keep him and keep trying. It has worked well so far.

Yes, this team hasn't won because of Redd. It's not because:

1. They haven't had a legit coach since Redd has played big minutes
2. They haven't had a legit starting SF until this year with Redd
3. They haven't ever had a legit starting PF ever with Redd
4. None of the PG's paired with Redd have been able to defend

I'm not disillusioned about what Redd is. I realize his game is mostly scoring, and he brings little else. But the blame people put on him for this teams lack of success, while ignoring all of the above issues, is absolutely hilarious to me.

Did anyone ever say Redd was the only problem? Has anyone ever said we'd have been a playoff team these past few season if we just didn't have Redd? You are making stuff up and arguing against yourself. It's just this simple...have we mostly sucked since Redd became the man...has any GM ever successfully built a contender with a non-special SG getting paid the max...these past few seasons have we had a better record when Redd was out? So looking at these fact please answer YES or NO if you feel it's legitimate for a person to think he is part of the problem so the team would be better off without him.

I think you'd answer yes to that question. So the next step is what is he worth. I think you will agree with his contract we'll never get equal value back for him. So at that point you have ask yourself are you better keeping him even though you feel he is a part of the problem or do you unload him for whatever you can get because the most important thing is to just get rid of a problem. Think Mo Williams trade. Mo is the better player but we took back a less talented player because Mo was seen as a problem. With Redd, the bigger the problem you feel he is the less you're willing to take back for him. You and I and bigkurty just disagree on how big of a problem he is. Neither of us is right or wrong. However, I feel I'm closer to being correct more than you because of the things I just mentioned about our history with Redd and the leagues history with non-special SGs that get paid the max.

[bigkurty]

I agree with Luke23 that the idea of trading Redd to Toronto for those three stiffs is miserable.

Kapono can shoot and does absolutely nothing else while being overpaid, Graham is nothing and Barganni looks like he is going to be a total bust.

One of the worst Redd trade ideas I have ever seen.

OK this has gotten out of hand. Seriously I kind of threw the trade out there on a lark since I just hate having Redd on the team that much. Would I actually do it, probably not. I would for sure try many other possibilities before considering this one. Like I would still do an AK47 for Redd trade straight up all day if you can get Utah to do it. I would do a Raja Bell and Biaw trade for Redd, I would try to exhaust many other possibilities before doing this trade. I just looked at the fact that Wallace for Kapono and Bargnani were thrown out there and I would say Wallace and Redd have similar value so I thought why not Redd for the same package. I do not really like the package except I do like Kapono as a roll player but I just am really trying to reinforce the fact that I think Redd has to go before we can really start doing something. I am not saying Kapono and Bargnani would make us better even, just that we need to get Redd off the team eventually to really complete this turnaround. I am fine with waiting for awhile to see what happens and I hope the team is good as is but I just have seen too much bad and selfish play from Redd over the years to think he has any future here. Hell Mo Williams was a better player than Redd IMO and people were saying he was overpaid getting 8.5 million a year. Redd will get an average of 17 million a year over the next 3 years. That is absolutely horrible. Redd is the 16th highest paid player in the league but he is probably the 30-40th best player. Thats the problem and thats why he is a negative asset IMO.

[LUKE23]

No one argues Redd is overpaid. I already made this point about one billion times on this forum. If Redd made $5M everyone would love him, but since he makes a ton everyone twists things around about him and expects him to become something he's not.

Trading him for absolute garbage in any deal makes the Bucks a worse team. If you're an advocate of just getting rid of Redd, then you're an advocate of this team being worse. Personally, I would like to be competitive this year, but that is just me.

[Joana]

Wallace has played PF in the past at times but apparently Larry Brown doesn't like that or he would be there now since they have no PF. Charlotte doesn't want Harrington because Brown likes players that actually play defense. I think they asked for Brandon Wright and GS wouldn't give him up. I don't see Brown taking Andrea or Kapono since Barq doesn't play D and they already have an overpaid Carroll. I wouldn't mind Wallace for Redd but I don't see Charlotte taking that deal either.

IIRC, it was Wallace who said he didn't want to play at the 4 anymore, because he's afraid of playing in the paint. He's a softie.

I was excited with the prospect of Wallace (and Richardson) playing under Coach Brown guidance. It's a shame Coach has already given up on him. I'm very disappointed with Wallace, thought he could improve his game having this chance.

[LUKE23]

I don't think it's because Wallace is "soft". LB wanted Wallace to play more SF because he's much more susceptible to injuries playing PF with the reckless style he plays with. Giving up that much size night in and night out and playing as hard as he does all game leads to more injuries.

[InsideOut]

No one argues Redd is overpaid. I already made this point about one billion times on this forum. If Redd made $5M everyone would love him, but since he makes a ton everyone twists things around about him and expects him to become something he's not.

Trading him for absolute garbage in any deal makes the Bucks a worse team. If you're an advocate of just getting rid of Redd, then you're an advocate of this team being worse. Personally, I would like to be competitive this year, but that is just me.

Who expects him to be something he's not? You have it backward. The problem is we know he won't ever be what we expect. And that is being worth what he's getting paid.

Why are the Knicks paying Marbury not to play? Don't you feel he is better than their current PG? Why did Portland trade Zach for basically Francis and then just dump Francis. Do you think these things happened because the GM is advocating the team being worse? Or maybe they are looking at the big picture and taking a long-term view of the situation?

One other point I think you might be missing is the affect of Redd's contract. I feel it is a valid point that if Redd wasn't being paid the max we'd have Boozer as our PF right now. If we can't afford Session next year part of that will also fall on Redd's contract. It's not just is Redd worth his contract it's the affect that contract has on other moves that are not possible because of the contract. Now if Redd brought what a KG, Kobe...brought this wouldn't be such a big deal. But because he doesn’t and we instead are trying to build a team with many very good players instead of around one star then his contract keeps us from affording those players. Think Detroit. If they had paid Billups, Prince, Hamilton or Wallace the max they would have lost at least one of the other guys and go from potential champs to trying to get out of the first round.

No team has ever won pay paying a non-special SG the max. Why do you want to keep trying? Because you are worried without him we won't compete this year? That to me is a short-term view. Besides, our record these past two seasons without him doesn't make your statement a no-brainer.

[LUKE23]

Nobody is expecting the Bucks to be a contender this year. However, that doesn't mean you just trade Redd for the sake of trading him.

Regarding salary, you do realize that after we re-sign Sessions, which is likely, that even if we traded Redd for deals that expired after 2008-09, we still wouldn't have enough cap room to be a significant player in FA correct?

If Redd was a personality cancer like Mabury, Randolph, etc, then I could maybe see the point of a dump, but that isn't the case.

Since you're so hell bent on moving him, please give me some realistic trade scenarios that improve the team.

[Joana]

I don't think it's because Wallace is "soft". LB wanted Wallace to play more SF because he's much more susceptible to injuries playing PF with the reckless style he plays with. Giving up that much size night in and night out and playing as hard as he does all game leads to more injuries.

I'm sorry, but Coach Brown has nothing to do with this. It was Wallace who decided he wouldn't play at the 4 anymore, even before LB joined the club. Yeah, he's afraid of injurires. If he was playing in Europe, or in the NBA of 20 years ago, it'd make more sense.

----------

What's the point of trading Redd for the purpose of dumping salaries, especially if that won't clear enough cap room to allow the team to be a major player in the FA market? Won't he be more valuable than that in the future? Franchises improve by the process of trading wisely; malcontents, perennially injured players or those going through a quick decline are the ones that must be traded for nothing.

[BDUB_30]

id do a Redd for wallace trade in a minute . Rj could drop down to the 2 , Wallace start at the 3 , wed be a much better team with that trade . Their were some ideas that RJ cant play the 2 earlier in the year and i think its been proven he can play that position . Wed be conciderably better defensivly .


Obviously wed have to take back another player from the bobcats , i just dont see the bucks and the bobcats being good trading partners , no way we could land wallace .


A lineup of rj/wallace/moute/bogut would be exceptional defensivly .

[EastSideBucksFan]

Wallace has played PF in the past at times but apparently Larry Brown doesn't like that or he would be there now since they have no PF. Charlotte doesn't want Harrington because Brown likes players that actually play defense. I think they asked for Brandon Wright and GS wouldn't give him up. I don't see Brown taking Andrea or Kapono since Barq doesn't play D and they already have an overpaid Carroll. I wouldn't mind Wallace for Redd but I don't see Charlotte taking that deal either.

IIRC, it was Wallace who said he didn't want to play at the 4 anymore, because he's afraid of playing in the paint. He's a softie.
I was excited with the prospect of Wallace (and Richardson) playing under Coach Brown guidance. It's a shame Coach has already given up on him. I'm very disappointed with Wallace, thought he could improve his game having this chance.

Do you realize he's had like 4-5 concussions?

Most of which have occurred during his time at the PF position.


According to you anyone who doens't want permanent brain damage = softie

Got it.

[InsideOut]

Nobody is expecting the Bucks to be a contender this year. However, that doesn't mean you just trade Redd for the sake of trading him.

Regarding salary, you do realize that after we re-sign Sessions, which is likely, that even if we traded Redd for deals that expired after 2008-09, we still wouldn't have enough cap room to be a significant player in FA correct?

If Redd was a personality cancer like Mabury, Randolph, etc, then I could maybe see the point of a dump, but that isn't the case.

Since you're so hell bent on moving him, please give me some realistic trade scenarios that improve the team.

BDUB beat me to it. I'd also do Redd for Wallace. My guess is you'll say that's unrealistic which may be right. I guess at this point I could end this by saying I can't think of any team that is willing to give up much to get Redd. I think that statement proves both our points. You are right we won't be better this second by trading Redd but that proves my point that if nobody is willing to give up anything to get him then the Bucks should see Redd as a problem because they have max money tied up in a guy that nobody is willing to give crap to get.

[BDUB_30]

the bottom line is nobody is going to pay redd that kind of money to be a " pretty good scorer " ..


hes not an elite scorer , and what else does he do out there well ?


thru these 5 games , i have loved the way hes played unselfish out there and gives us effort defensivly . but ya know , 5 games doesnt erase basicaly his entire nba carrer .. and no team in the nba would look at redd as anything other then what he has shown milwaukee fans thus far ..


and thats basicaly a selfish scorer who is willing to break off plays to " get his " ...and a perenial loser . I mean thats it , if hammond could get wallace for redd theirs no way he wouldnt do it .. Wallace = cheaper and just a flat out better basketball player . far more versatile , far more intense .

Wallace and Nazr for Redd ? No way in hell the bobcats do that ..


throw in JA ? lol as excited as i am about JAs future , i do that trade all day ..i want to win now ..like RIGHT NOW ..Wallace on this club starting at the 3 and RJ playing the 2 is a tenacious defensive duo .

[jeremyd236]

Him and Nazr for Redd? I can dream.

Terrible trade in my opinion. I would've easily done this before we got rid of Mo, but our shooting would be absolutely terrible with Wallace. If Jefferson isn't randomly on fire, there'd be nobody to hit shots.

I think it just makes more sense to trade Jefferson, or if we're going to trade Redd at least get a guy who can stand there and hit threes, because with Sessoins, Jefferson, and Wallace you're going to need a guy who is a spot up shooter.

[Joana]

Wallace has played PF in the past at times but apparently Larry Brown doesn't like that or he would be there now since they have no PF. Charlotte doesn't want Harrington because Brown likes players that actually play defense. I think they asked for Brandon Wright and GS wouldn't give him up. I don't see Brown taking Andrea or Kapono since Barq doesn't play D and they already have an overpaid Carroll. I wouldn't mind Wallace for Redd but I don't see Charlotte taking that deal either.

IIRC, it was Wallace who said he didn't want to play at the 4 anymore, because he's afraid of playing in the paint. He's a softie.
I was excited with the prospect of Wallace (and Richardson) playing under Coach Brown guidance. It's a shame Coach has already given up on him. I'm very disappointed with Wallace, thought he could improve his game having this chance.

Do you realize he's had like 4-5 concussions?

Most of which have occurred during his time at the PF position.


According to you anyone who doens't want permanent brain damage = softie

Got it.

Players are labeled as "soft" when they shy away of physical contact, afraid of getting hurt. What makes Wallace different? His injury-prone nature? That means that he's soft and injury-prone, and allowed the injuries to get under his skin. If he's in risk of permanent brain damage, he shouldn't be playing basketball at all, should try volleyball or other non-contact sport.

Anyway, it wasn't a coach decision, it was his call.

[Rockmaninoff]

Him and Nazr for Redd? I can dream.

Terrible trade in my opinion. I would've easily done this before we got rid of Mo, but our shooting would be absolutely terrible with Wallace. If Jefferson isn't randomly on fire, there'd be nobody to hit shots.

I think it just makes more sense to trade Jefferson, or if we're going to trade Redd at least get a guy who can stand there and hit threes, because with Sessoins, Jefferson, and Wallace you're going to need a guy who is a spot up shooter.

Yeah, and I don't know where it has been proven that Jefferson can play the 2 on a regular basis. I also don't think Wallace is a 3, and that's why they want to trade him.

If it comes down to contracts, they guy who should be moved is Gadzuric. I think we should keep our good, productive players and try to add more of the same.

Now, if somebody said...

Redd

For

Turkoglu/Battie/Redick

...then I might listen. Might.