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Howard: Bucks' season could make future tense

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heynow
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Re: Howard: Bucks' season could make future tense 

Post#41 » by heynow » Tue Jan 27, 2009 5:07 pm

adamcz wrote:
heynow wrote:The one place where I think the Bucks GM gets to flex some muscle is in the draft.
I think Alexander was drafted to be a back up to Jefferson and also to play some 4 against certain teams.
Alexander just hasn't been able to beat out the Prince. I do think there was a plan here. Who could have seen L. Mbah a Moute getting more minutes then Alexander.
By the way Alexander played 24 minutes and Luc played very little.

And again, that's inexcuseable. There should be no desire to "flex some muscle" as a side project while otherwise implementing the main plan. There's no way you are going to beat all 29 of the other teams when you aren't devoting every resource to the execution of a single plan.

You won't beat the Cavs, Celtics, Magic, Lakers in the short term if you're drafting projects instead of players who can win right now. You won't beat the Thunder, Grizzlies, Blazers, Wolves five years from now if you're trading away your young players and financial flexibility for past-their-prime stars who may not even be playing at that time.



I think we agree for different reasons.
Planning is a major shortcoming of this franchise.
Like their cousin franchise on the West coast the Clippers.

THe blueprint is the same. Patch and pray but with one foot always out of the pool.
You either blow it up (load up on draft picks and build that way ) or you throw everything in (trade your young players for vets to surround your other vets with, and you go for it...whatever it is.).

The Bucks refuse to do one or the other because they want to have something for everyone....

They have Jumping Joe from West Virginia for fans who love young guys who jump high with potential...

They have RIchard Jefferson for fans who like big names they can recognize on the roster ...

See fun for everyone.
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Re: Howard: Bucks' season could make future tense 

Post#42 » by jokeboy86 » Tue Jan 27, 2009 5:19 pm

Mayor Barrett is on 540 talking about Kohl has done alot but "others" have to step up about the arena issue. Who are these "others" that Payne, Costello, and Barrett are talking about? It was a good discussion though they had with the Mayor about the Bucks future. Bill Johnson asked some very good questions.
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Re: Howard: Bucks' season could make future tense 

Post#43 » by WEFFPIM » Tue Jan 27, 2009 6:01 pm

stevescheffler06 wrote:This is eerily similar to what happened to my Sonics. The ownership/gm's made awful personnel decisions year after year until the team was labeled a loser around town. The Mariners (aka Packers) were always top billing but the town loved the NBA when they were winning. A combination of awful seasons and a perennially bad in-city franchise turning it around in the Seahawks (Brewers in Milwaukee) put the Sonics at the bottom of the trough. When it came time to ask for money for a new stadium they were laughed at and the owner eventually sold for financial considerations. Now I'm watching the same thing happen to my other team. It's killing me to see. And for those who think it can't happen here, keep in mind the Sonics were the only pro franchise to win a title in Seattle but even that goodwill couldn't keep them in town after 40 years in Seattle.


This is a scary good comparison.
ReddWing wrote:Being a fan of this team is tantamount to being in hell...There is no Christ that is coming to save us. Even if there was, we'd trade him for a 28 year old wing.
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Re: Howard: Bucks' season could make future tense 

Post#44 » by smooth 'lil balla » Tue Jan 27, 2009 6:33 pm

I don't think its fair to point a finger at Kohl. If I were to pin blame on one situation that has created this current mess, it would be to the George Karl/Ernie Grunfeld trade of Ray Allen for Desmond Mason. Ever since that fateful day, this franchise has been on the decline. Whoever lobbied for that deal single handedly turned the Bucks into what they are today.
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Re: Howard: Bucks' season could make future tense 

Post#45 » by heynow » Tue Jan 27, 2009 6:41 pm

smooth 'lil balla wrote:I don't think its fair to point a finger at Kohl. If I were to pin blame on one situation that has created this current mess, it would be to the George Karl/Ernie Grunfeld trade of Ray Allen for Desmond Mason. Ever since that fateful day, this franchise has been on the decline. Whoever lobbied for that deal single handedly turned the Bucks into what they are today.

KOhl is the owner.
He has been for 25 years.
Before he was the Owner the Bucks averaged over 50 wins per season.
Since Herb took over it is closer to 38 wins.
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Re: Howard: Bucks' season could make future tense 

Post#46 » by InsideOut » Tue Jan 27, 2009 6:51 pm

smooth 'lil balla wrote:I don't think its fair to point a finger at Kohl. If I were to pin blame on one situation that has created this current mess, it would be to the George Karl/Ernie Grunfeld trade of Ray Allen for Desmond Mason. Ever since that fateful day, this franchise has been on the decline. Whoever lobbied for that deal single handedly turned the Bucks into what they are today.


Go back and look at the record from when Kohl took over the team in 85. He took over a good team with a great coach and within a few years turned them into a team that won an average of 29 games over the next 8 seasons. Then we had one great season and have struggled for mediocrity ever sesnse. As was pointed out, we went from a team that was almost always good...to Kohl buying it... and since then we've been almost always bad.
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Re: Howard: Bucks' season could make future tense 

Post#47 » by old skool » Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:58 am

Sometimes the lack of knowledge here is amazing.

Most NBA teams make money. A couple of years ago, Forbes ran an article reporting on a five year span, 2003-2007, of NBA profit/loss. Over that period, the Bulls averaged $44.5-million in annual profit. In 2006-07 the average NBA team made $8.5-million in annual operating profit (EBITDA). The Bucks made $1.7-million in profit on $88-million in revenue. Only 9 teams lost money that year. The Sonics were the fourth most unprofitable team, losing $5.7-million.

The Sonics left Seattle because of a bad lease. It remains to be seen if the city of Seattle is willing to spend the significant amount of money required to make Seattle attractive to an NBA team.

This is no small issue. The Pacific Northwest is a difficult place to make money in the NBA. Forbes reported that Seattle had revenues of only $81-million in 2006-07, lowest in the NBA, resulting in a $5-.7-million loss. They barely edged Portland, who had $82-million in revenue for a $25.1-million loss. Those kind of numbers make the Bucks $88-million in revenue for a $1.7-million profit look darn good.

Seattle left because their new owners were unwilling to continue to lose money. That loss in 2006-07 was the season after the new owners bought the franchise for a reported $350-million, which is $100-million more than Forbes said the franchise was worth.

Does anyone expect that someone is going to spend the money needed to buy the Bucks, just to move the franchise to Seattle, which has proved to be a difficult place to make a profit? The general fund budget for the City of Seattle is $940-million. The economy has forced them to put some spending initiatives on hold and eliminate a few jobs. They are in no position to pour money into an arena to improve the financial viability of an NBA team. King County is in even worse shape financially. The Pacific Northwest is a challenging NBA location. Travel costs are high. There is not a large tax base. Revenues from TV and radio are limited because of small local populations and early tipoff times in the midwest and eastern parts of the country.


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Re: Howard: Bucks' season could make future tense 

Post#48 » by LISTEN2JAZZ » Wed Jan 28, 2009 2:30 pm

What would be the financial impact of playing 10 home games in Madison and the other 31 in Milwaukee? That would lower the price of season tickets at the BC by 1/4, and I wonder if it would lead to roughly the same total revenue at that stadium. If a Milwaukee family decides that their budget for Bucks basketball is $1,000, then that's what they're going to spend, whether they're choosing from 31 or 41 total games. The core of people willing to attend every game no matter how many there are doesn't appear to be that significant to me.

Would the 10 games in Madison - even if poorly attended - be extra revenue, or would the Milwaukee revenue decline by about the same amount or even worse? Could Madison sell 12,000+ tickets per game like they do for Badger basketball?
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Re: Howard: Bucks' season could make future tense 

Post#49 » by LUKE23 » Wed Jan 28, 2009 2:33 pm

Would the 10 games in Madison - even if poorly attended - be extra revenue, or would the Milwaukee revenue decline by about the same amount or even worse? Could Madison sell 12,000+ tickets per game like they do for Badger basketball?


That's a tough one. The problem is that it would be competing with both Badger basketball and hockey for fan dollars. The hockey team draws well, the basketball team sells out every game obviously. I think it would depend on how many fans make the trip from Milwaukee. Obviously I have no data to say how many Madison fans would buy tickets, but I'd definitely wager a lot that it would be less than 10,000.
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Re: Howard: Bucks' season could make future tense 

Post#50 » by LISTEN2JAZZ » Wed Jan 28, 2009 2:44 pm

LUKE23 wrote:
Would the 10 games in Madison - even if poorly attended - be extra revenue, or would the Milwaukee revenue decline by about the same amount or even worse? Could Madison sell 12,000+ tickets per game like they do for Badger basketball?


That's a tough one. The problem is that it would be competing with both Badger basketball and hockey for fan dollars. The hockey team draws well, the basketball team sells out every game obviously. I think it would depend on how many fans make the trip from Milwaukee. Obviously I have no data to say how many Madison fans would buy tickets, but I'd definitely wager a lot that it would be less than 10,000.

So let's say Madison can sell 7,500 per game, for a total of 75,000 over the season. How much would the Milwaukee season total drop by? Would their per-game totals jump up because people are spending the same dollar amount per year, or would the per-game totals stay the same making this plan a big bust?
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Re: Howard: Bucks' season could make future tense 

Post#51 » by LUKE23 » Wed Jan 28, 2009 2:48 pm

I wish I had answers to those questions, but it's hard for it to be anything more than speculation. I don't think there are many Bucks fans in Madison. Just for a very small sample size, of the 9-10 guys I regularly hang out with (guys that are big sports fans), one follows the Bucks on a game to game basis.
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Re: Howard: Bucks' season could make future tense 

Post#52 » by Licensed to Il » Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:09 pm

Smooth Lil Baller...

Who do you think green lighted the Ray Allen for Payton trade? It was a salary dump, disguised as a "let's shake thing up" move. Kohl knew exactly what he was doing, he was shedding salary to get under the luxary tax, and since no one was going to take a bad player he had to part with Ray to shed salary. Everyone in the organization knew that Payton was not going to resign with the Bucks. From the day that the trade was drawn up, it was intended to send a message to the players that no one was untouchable WHILE shedding long term salary from the payroll.

Old Skool, I always enjoy reading your posts. You are very well read on the ins and out of the NBA.
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Re: Howard: Bucks' season could make future tense 

Post#53 » by Licensed to Il » Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:16 pm

And to answer the question about the Bucks in Madison.... there is even less interest here in Madison for pro basketball then there is in Milwaukee. Students don't have money to go to games, and locals would rather sit around and talk about Mike Wilkensen and Zach Morley then watch NBA.

If the Bucks are really interested in increasing their fan base, I would think that the biggest area of potential growth would be to reach down in to northern illinois, and try to steal some corporate money and sell some season tickets to that "in between" sea of people north of Chicago and south of Milwaukee. There is a lot of money around there, and the Bulls have been crappy enough lately where a solid contending Bucks team could have made a dent in that market. Remember how many Bears fans were in Milwaukee when the Packers were bad? Simalair dynamic. Of course, as long as the Bucks are bad... it doesn't matter what promotions they come up with in Madison, Green Bay, Oshkosh, Racine, etc. First things first, the Bucks need to field a 45 - 50 win team on the upswing.

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