Bucks-Pistons Postgame Thread 2/17/09

[trwi7]

I can honestly say I have never seen a more "in game" improvement in a basketball game, than I seen last night. The scoreboard read Bucks 0 and the Pistons 0 fourty three seconds into the game.

However, Antonio McDyse scored a bucket fifteen seconds in, and RJ hit a 3 thirty five seconds in. There was no stoppage in game action until 11:17 showing on the clock, yet was the board reading 00-00.

Two buckets scored, yet no score posted on the board. I thought to myself, these guys are worse than the Bradley Center score keepers..

From then on however, every time the rest of the game, by the time the ball went into the net for a score, when I looked at the score board, the basket was already credited, like in mili seconds they scored counted the basket.

Wow. Kudos to them.

As for the Bucks, very impressive as well.

I noticed the scoreboard thing too. I had to rewind it a couple times last night to make sure they were keeping up and that they didn't just fall behind again, so I rewound and just looked at the scoreboard to see if it changed.

[LUKE23]

No way I give up Sessions.

[Sigra]

I would be glad to keep RJ if you can find a way to unload Ridnour and/or Gadz. You have a draft pick and JA to work with. Good Luck.

+1

That right there will show us how good GM Hammons is. If he can't trade only one year of Ridnour (expire 2010) who is solid PG for expiring even with JA or pick then he is bad GM period.

[LUKE23]

I would be glad to keep RJ if you can find a way to unload Ridnour and/or Gadz. You have a draft pick and JA to work with. Good Luck

I'd put the chances of anyone offering an expiring for Ridnour and/or Gadzuric at extremely low. There is a reason all Bucks fans want to do it, because there is little value there.

This is an economic climate where Raef LaFrentz's expiring deal is getting more offers than Amare Stoudemire. So why is someone going to give us an expiring for Ridnour and/or Gadzuric? They are not.

[Debit One]

No way I give up Sessions.

I was thinking about this last night. Let's suppose that the Blazers decide that Sessions is in the deal or no deal. Let's suppose that to get Sessions into the deal they will include Rudy Fernandez.

Your choices are:

LaFrentz + Fernandez for RJ + Sessions + cap filler (Allen?)

or no deal and lose CV + 2009 #1.

You take the deal and your 2009 lineup is Ridnour, Fernandez, RJ, CV, Bogut with LMRAM, Bell, Elson, Alexander, 2009 #1 and Redd on the bench.

You don't take the deal and your 2009 lineup is Sessions, Bell, RJ, LMRAM, Bogut and Ridnour, Redd, Alexander and Elson on the bench.

What do you do?

[LUKE23]

I was thinking about this last night. Let's suppose that the Blazers decide that Sessions is in the deal or no deal. Let's suppose that to get Sessions into the deal they will include Rudy Fernandez.

Your choices are:

LaFrentz + Fernandez for RJ + Sessions + cap filler (Allen?)

or no deal and lose CV + 2009 #1.

You take the deal and your 2009 lineup is Ridnour, Fernandez, RJ, CV, Bogut with LMRAM, Bell, Rodriguez, Elson, Alexander, 2009 #1 and Redd on the bench.

You don't take the deal and your 2009 lineup is Sessions, Bell, RJ, LMRAM, Bogut and Ridnour, Redd, Alexander and Elson on the bench.

What do you do?

First of all, I'm not nearly as high on Fernandez as many. I see him as a very good jumpshooter but very average defender and creator. So I probably value him higher than a guy like Outlaw/Bayless, but not by THAT much. I do not do that deal. If the Bucks have explored all options regarding finding salary relief (Jefferson/Ridnour/Gadzuric/CV), then I guess I ride it out, and at least come back next season with Sessions/RJ. That is not ideal, but I think Sessions has the ability to be the top player on this entire team by late next year.

[paul]

You need to take RJ out of your first lineup Debit. That's more difficult - Fernandez is where you start to consider it but I'd prefer Sessions to Rudy if asked to do a one for one comparison.

Like Luke I'm not a huge fan of Rudy, given I don't want the deal anyway I still pass.

[LUKE23]

Sessions has FAR more potential than Fernandez. Fernandez is not a PG. I see Sessions value as FAR higher.

[trwi7]

I'll take RJ/Sessions over CV/Fernandez/1st. It's not ideal to me, but I'd still take it over that trade.

[paul]

Sessions has FAR more potential than Fernandez. Fernandez is not a PG. I see Sessions value as FAR higher.

Yep - I hit 'submit' in the middle of my post! Careful though I've had a couple of run-ins with some very passionate Rudy supporters on here this season......

[LUKE23]

I'll take RJ/Sessions over CV/Fernandez/1st. It's not ideal to me, but I'd still take it over that trade

Agreed. RJ/Sessions are the top two players in that deal.

[LUKE23]

Yep - I hit 'submit' in the middle of my post! Careful though I've had a couple of run-ins with some very passionate Rudy supporters on here this season......

Oh, believe me I know. They can bring it on. Sessions has more potential than Fernandez does.

[Debit One]

You need to take RJ out of your first lineup Debit. That's more difficult - Fernandez is where you start to consider it but I'd prefer Sessions to Rudy if asked to do a one for one comparison.

Yeah, I messed that up. I prefer Sessions over Rudy as well, but if it comes down to:

Rudy + CV + 2009 #!

or RJ + Sessions

It's a tough call.

Scenario #!:

Ridnour
Fernandez
LMRAM
CV
Bogut

Bench: Bell, Alexander, 2009 #1, Elson, Redd

Scenario #2:

Sessions
Bell
RJ
LMRAM
Bogut

Bench: Ridnour, Alexander, Elson, Redd

[LUKE23]

Scenario #!:

Ridnour
Fernandez
LMRAM
CV
Bogut

Bench: Bell, Alexander, 2009 #1, Elson, Redd

Scenario #2:

Sessions
Bell
RJ
LMRAM
Bogut

Bench: Ridnour, Alexander, Elson, Redd

Neither is ideal, but the second team is better IMO, the top players on team 2 are better.

Right now, I think the Bucks need to be focused on at least at bare minimum keeping Sessions/Bogut. Those two guys are both IMO top 10 players at their positions (Sessions if he reaches his potential) at the hardest spots to find.

Ideally, you can keep both Sessions/CV/2009 first, so with that you look for expirings for Ridnour/Gadzuric first, then RJ.

[Sigra]

I would be glad to keep RJ if you can find a way to unload Ridnour and/or Gadz. You have a draft pick and JA to work with. Good Luck

I'd put the chances of anyone offering an expiring for Ridnour and/or Gadzuric at extremely low. There is a reason all Bucks fans want to do it, because there is little value there.

We want to do it because we have Sessions AND because we HAVE to do that (to clear salary). NOT because Ridnouor is bad or anything. Luke Ridnour is very solid PG with good contract. At least 10 teams should love to have him if they can have him for nothing (expiring). And if we add our pick with Ridnour only idiot GM should not trade expiring for that (if that idiot have no salary problems).

THE ONLY reason for that to not hapen is if Hammond doesn't want to do that in which case he is moron and terrible GM.

[LUKE23]

We want to do it because we have Sessions AND because we HAVE to do that (to clear salary). NOT because Ridnouor is bad or anything. Luke Ridnour is very solid PG with good contract. At least 10 teams should love to have him if they can have him for nothing (expiring). And if we add our pick with Ridnour only idiot GM should not trade expiring for that (if that idiot have no salary problems).

THE ONLY reason for that to not hapen is if Hammond doesn't want to do that in which case he is moron and terrible GM.

No. You are wrong Sigra. Expiring contracts are GOLD right now in the NBA. I will say it for the 4th time: people are offering more for Raef LaFrentz's horrendous ass than Amare Stoudemire, a 26 year-old all-star power forward. That is the economic situation right now in the NBA. If any other team is offering even a $6.5M expiring, they will get better offers than Ridnour for it, just trust me on this.

And I realize we have to clear salary. Tons of teams are trying to do the same thing. We aren't going to be able to do it without giving up an asset (RJ). It is what it is, the sooner people come into reality the better.

[Rockmaninoff]

Rudy Fernandez is tough to judge at this point. I think he would look much better as a starter, or at least in a Giniobli role (off the bench, but lots of ball handling, scoring, shooting). I'd put Fernandez as closer to Ray Allen potentially, then Michael Redd.

That said, Sessions was sent to save basketball in Milwaukee. There is no reason to mess with that.

I don't see why New York wouldn't consider Ridnour for Rose. Ridnour is clearly the better player and he could really help them with a playoff push, if that is what the Knicks organization really wants.

[Sigra]

We want to do it because we have Sessions AND because we HAVE to do that (to clear salary). NOT because Ridnouor is bad or anything. Luke Ridnour is very solid PG with good contract. At least 10 teams should love to have him if they can have him for nothing (expiring). And if we add our pick with Ridnour only idiot GM should not trade expiring for that (if that idiot have no salary problems).

THE ONLY reason for that to not hapen is if Hammond doesn't want to do that in which case he is moron and terrible GM.

No. You are wrong Sigra. Expiring contracts are GOLD right now in the NBA. I will say it for the 4th time: people are offering more for Raef LaFrentz's horrendous ass than Amare Stoudemire, a 26 year-old all-star power forward. That is the economic situation right now in the NBA. If any other team is offering even a $6.5M expiring, they will get better offers than Ridnour for it, just trust me on this.

And I realize we have to clear salary. Tons of teams are trying to do the same thing. We aren't going to be able to do it without giving up an asset (RJ). It is what it is, the sooner people come into reality the better.

Actually I think you are wrong here with all due respect. LeFrentz is HUGE expiring COVERED with insurance which all lead to that being so valuable. Amare is PF who don't play defense and has only one more year of contract so nobody wants to give a lot for one year rental of PF who play no defense. And our package should not be only Ridnour. It should be Ridnour + first round pick. Ridnour IS asset and as a PG he is good value with good contract. 6.5 is just fine for PG as good as Ridnour. And we add our pick. Who can offer more for "not so big" expiring (like Malik Rose for example)?

Give me one examle of better trade for Knicks. What can they get for Malik Rose that is better than Ridnour + first round pick?????

[LUKE23]

Ridnour for Rose would be sweet for the Bucks. At least allow us to keep Sessions and our first rounder. CV too if he came back at the QO.

[LISTEN2JAZZ]

I think we could trade Ridnour for an expiring deal easily enough. He's a solid pg signed to a fair contract that expires after next year. I think Knicks or Rockets would do that deal.

The problem is that trading Ridnour alone doesn't solve our problems. We'd still need to find a way to dump Gadzuric in order to comfortably keep our draft pick, and that's assuming we just let CV walk.

So maybe we use Alexander and CV to dump Gadzuric? To me, that's a lot less appealing than dumping Jefferson alone. But perhaps that option doesn't exist. The priority list is:

1. Keep Sessions
2. Keep Villanueva
3. Keep 1st rounder

If we trade Jefferson, all three are possible. If we trade Ridnour alone, then #2 isn't possible, so we might as well trade Villanueva as well (to dump Gadz or Bell) in order to make #3 possible.

Or maybe with no other offers on the table, we trade CV for a 2nd rounder, trade Alexander for a future 1st (heavily protected, thanks Hammond), trade our own 1st for a future 1st. That delays the spending a bit.