No ROI, why not???

[GRADEN]

Hey guys I've compiled a list of players that are currently on NHL rosters since either being let go, traded, or signed away from our Hawks by either Dale or Stan.... I may have missed someone as I go from memory and all the math is simply quick calculation but let's be honest I don't miss much .... I'm trying to, and sadly finding, see if our brass is selling high or if they are selling low and you know what.... We aren't getting enough for these guys because if you look at just the numbers (they aren't everything, esp. In hockey) it looks like about 85-90% of these guys got a lot better on the numbers side after they left....

Look at what we got back for them? Anyone care to guess which one of our top lines were helped by these moves some of which netted teams legit top 6 players?

Now the cap is a killer when you carry all of our stars and these moves had to made at the time... I can honestly say that only the Clendening trade irked me at the day it happened.... But my point is despite these moves being necessary at the time we simply aren't getting good returns. Take a look..... Note there are a ton of players not at the NHL level via picks and prospects not on this list... Only current roster players


Flames - LW Brandon Bollig 48 games - 3pts - bottom 6 enforcer

Predators - G Carter Hutton - 26-15-8 in 55 GP with around a 2.57 GAA and a .909

Sharks - G Antti Niemi - Up and down 5 seasons after their snakey GM forced us into a Hjalmarson or Niemi choice because of Niemi's 2 million threshold on our cap.

Canucks - D Ryan Stanton - 109 games - 25 points - solid bottom 6 defenseman
Canucks - D Adam Clendening - 11 games - 2 points - mind numbing 1 for 1 deal

Jets - RW Michael Frolik - 142 games - 72 points - Former 10th overall now 2nd liner
Jets - LW Andrew Ladd - 269 games - 198 points - A legit star in the league, only 29
Jets - D Dustin Byfuglien - 329 games - 230 points - Back on D, All Star player

Blue Jackets - LW Jeremy Morin - 17 games - 3 points - 23 years old
Blue Jackets - RW Jack Skille - 166 games - 33 points - bottom 6 winger
Blue Jackets - D James Wisniewski - 382 games - 218 points - Top tier Dman

Panthers - C Dave Bolland - 60 games - 28 points
Panthers - RW Jimmy Hayes - 103 games - 28 goals wow right (also lost Kevin)
Panthers - RW Tomas Kopecky - 235 games - 79 points
Panthers - C Brandon Pirri - 49 games and 16 goals... Yep that is 1:3 ratio which is elite
Panthers - D Brian Campbell - 278 games - 142 points - near 500 pts for career
Panthers - D Dylan Olsen - 88 games - 20 points

****Note obviously Dale Tallon knows these guys well****


Devils - LW Martin Havlat - 323 games - 200 points
Devils - LW Tuomo Ruutu - 442 games - 239 points

Islanders - D Nick Leddy - 61 games - 25 points

Rangers - RW Kevin Hayes - 55 games - 26 points (huge growth spurt too)

Senators - G Craig Anderson - Up and down over 9 seasons but solid veteran now

Flyers - G Ray Emery - Been real bad since his breakout Hawk performance

Capitals - RW Troy Brouwer - 293 games - 145 points - been great for them


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[GRADEN]

Fwiw Brouwer is my he got away departure... He was close with everyone in the locker room and clearly he is a really good on ice addition to any club... Just think if he were on a bad team, would he get u 60 pts? U bet.....


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[ADDinChicago]

The Hawks have won 2 Cups under Stan's time here and almost all of the moves are made for either cap reasons to keep core players or to give up on younger guys that are dying to play that never will get time here. Guys like Hutton, Leddy & Byfuglien weren't going to be paid here. And then guys like Hayes, Skille, etc. were never going to crack the rotation because of the roster. This is the price you pay when you have 3 of the best players in Toews, Kane & Keith.

I have ZERO issue with what Stan has done in the trade department. I do have issue with some of the extensions he's handed out. Mainly Crawford's deal & Bryan Bickell's. Instead of trading either, he felt he had to pay them off of one Cup run and it's proving to not be the best of ideas.

However, he's also found really nice players like Brandon Saad & Scott Darling.

[TNBT]

As you mentioned, many of the guys we have lost have been forced due to cap issues, so the other team knows we're stuck in a tough spot and can low-ball us. However, I also agree with you that it would have been nice to get some better value than we have gotten for some of the other guys. Still, we're winning cups and are playoff locks every year, so life's not too bad.

[GRADEN]

Oh I am in complete agreement ADD and fully acknowledged that Stan has played the cap well, kept our core top lines in tact, and most of all keep the right guys...... But here is the point of this conversation, has he gotten equal or fair compensation for said players and more to it here is why I'm bringing it up::::::: the entire league knows that a guy on the 4th line or even a top line in Rockford is like a 3rd line or even a 2nd line guy to 2/3 of the other teams..... The guy that knows that best is Stan and thus maybe we should engage like we have the diamond someone else wants instead of a team doing "us" a favor by helping out an impending cap issue....

And yes I'm mad about bicks contract. If u look through our conversations here you'll see I'm terrified of losing Saad because of Bickell or a combination or domino effect of said extension. Bickell better be good in the playoffs because Jimmy Hayes has turned out to be the net presence in Florida (not saying he would be here) we need bicks to be albeit at a fraction of the cap.

The rest of the league knows Saad is a 65-75 pt top line guy in 25 other cities... We better not lose him and if so it better be for a TON (2nd line young D, a top 10 pick and a 2nd rounder IMO)...


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[GRADEN]

TNBT totally understand being happy winning cups and this is the vibe I get from both of you which I feel too.... BUT how much of that is due to hitting home runs with back to back 1st and 3rd overalls? We get 2 HOFs whom are great day 1 which other than like Malk-Crysby and Backstrom-Ovi whom can claim that.... I simply want to make sure when sharp-Hossa-Keith etc are ready to move on we are ready... I know the system is in great hands, I simply pointing out that I don't think we should do other teams favors when we are holding the best cards... Then again Forsling could be great so who knows...

Good talk, see you out there


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[ADDinChicago]

I also forgot to mention Andrew Shaw (as being a good player they found). Can't believe I did that.

I'm really hoping for a trade of Bickell, Crawford & to a much lesser extent Sharp (I love him, but it's time to move him to make room). I'm sure Stan has a plan for the Summer.

[GRADEN]

Yea I've mentioned a ton my love of sharp from a locker room and personal side but on the numbers side both cap shot percentage and overall rotation moving forward I just can't see it.... Again this is all about saad for me...

Crawford I'm not as high on moving though... Is he the best goalie no, but he came up huge when it mattered most and this league is full of goalies that crumble in those spots so I say keep him. Darling is impressive but it is still limited crease time so we need to see a full season of 15-20 starts before I know plan B is ready to plan A ya know.

Yea I love Shaw from the overachiever perspective and his attitude of the stand up to anything in your way is amazing.... His numbers are down and the expectation was maybe he could win the 2nd line center job.... Those are simply that though; high expectations and weren't really realistic just yet


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[GRADEN]

Thoughts on Kruger? I personally love him from a fit on the PK and his team first attitude... But he looks like a move candidate... I've said numerous times how good Rasmussen is and should swing back to center despite the eye test screaming winger bc of size and strength.... Again in the preview...


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[GRADEN]

Did u guys see Wisniewski as being such a good player when he left? He really improved IMO


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[ADDinChicago]

The only reason I'm hoping to see Crawford moved is because he's not an elite goalie and he's taking up a huge cap number. Yes, he's good. Yes, he helped win a Cup (and I think Stan is still using that to justify the deal). But Coach Q has fallen in love with him and it basically takes an ass kicking to even get him out of net now during the regular season. He's not been himself all season.

I have a simple philosophy on paying certain postions in different sports. You don't pay a lot of money to kickers, closers or goalies. There are very few exceptions to the rule and Crow doesn't meet the criteria for such.

[ADDinChicago]

Did u guys see Wisniewski as being such a good player when he left? He really improved IMO

No, and he has improved. But at the same time, I'm never going "Man, I wish Wizzer was still here".

A lot of players get better with age and after leaving here. Very few of them am I wishing the Hawks were paying instead.

[GRADEN]

Oh I'm all on that side of not missing him or anything like that... Just saying I thought he would have simply been a platoon 4th or something for like 2-4 seasons after here and that would be all she wrote... His play is surprising for sure...

Doesn't always work out for other teams getting our guys cough Barker ya know

Let's discuss Crawford more in depth... Topic to follow


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