RealGM

TSE wrote:Ok, who do you want then in exchange for the package of Cleary, Franzen, and Howard, and any draft picks to get any good players? I would cash those guys in and go after guys like Chara and Weber and rebuild through getting the pair of them first and then working my way back around everywhere else.

1st Howard isn't going anywhere unless we have a goalie to take his place. 2nd good luck getting Chara out of Boston he's arguably there most important piece and a top 3 d-man in the league. Webber isn't going as well the guy when he's on is a top 10 d-man and is quite young as well.

I don't think we would get anything worth value for Franzen he's older and signed to a pretty hefty deal a lot of teams are looking to get manageable salary on the books. I just can't think where he would fit and the package we would get wouldn't be that great

^ There was a rumor of a Semin for Franzen deal with us including some prospects, though I don't really buy it. Johans cap hit is actually pretty reasonable

ajaX82 wrote:^ There was a rumor of a Semin for Franzen deal with us including some prospects, though I don't really buy it. Johans cap hit is actually pretty reasonable

Really where? I checked and nothing popped up. If Detroit could get that deal without adding a ton of prospects or any real good ones I take it. Franzen is 32 I believe now and Semin is a good replacement for him and a really good 2nd line C.

Going to be interesting to see what goes on before the start of the season in the next 8-10 days

Mr Swagtastic wrote:

ajaX82 wrote:^ There was a rumor of a Semin for Franzen deal with us including some prospects, though I don't really buy it. Johans cap hit is actually pretty reasonable

Really where? I checked and nothing popped up. If Detroit could get that deal without adding a ton of prospects or any real good ones I take it. Franzen is 32 I believe now and Semin is a good replacement for him and a really good 2nd line C.

Going to be interesting to see what goes on before the start of the season in the next 8-10 days

I don't remember exactly....bleacher reports? Again, I just glanced at it, so it may have been writer speculation/what he wants to happen.

I still wouldn't be shocked if we were shopping the Mule though

Mr Swagtastic wrote:

TSE wrote:Ok, who do you want then in exchange for the package of Cleary, Franzen, and Howard, and any draft picks to get any good players? I would cash those guys in and go after guys like Chara and Weber and rebuild through getting the pair of them first and then working my way back around everywhere else.

1st Howard isn't going anywhere unless we have a goalie to take his place. 2nd good luck getting Chara out of Boston he's arguably there most important piece and a top 3 d-man in the league. Webber isn't going as well the guy when he's on is a top 10 d-man and is quite young as well.

I don't think we would get anything worth value for Franzen he's older and signed to a pretty hefty deal a lot of teams are looking to get manageable salary on the books. I just can't think where he would fit and the package we would get wouldn't be that great

Well that didn't answer my question at all. And I too predict Howard isn't going anywhere, but that's not relevant to my inquiry. My question is posed as a hypothetical what/if scenario that is conditional upon Howard being shopped. You can't undo the givens and then elaborate on a different premise and have it make sense as a rebuttal to my manufactured scenario.

And Weber and Chara would automatically be Red Wings if we wanted them, that's a non-issue as we clearly have plenty of talent that far exceeds enough to get both of them if we want them. No luck needed, just pricing and negotiation. Their teams can't stop us from taking those players if we decide we must have them.

TSE your missing the point Chara is a top 3 defenseman hands down. Boston isn't handing him over for nothing unless were sending half the team. Webber is really good as well and again I don't think he gets moved to us unless it's for Dats or 'Berg or some sort of overpayment

How do you know they wouldn't settle for 40%?

TSE wrote:Their teams can't stop us from taking those players if we decide we must have them.

You mean other than those teams saying no, we're not trading them.

I can back it up though that I can give them an offer they would have to say yes to. So that's not an issue. As long as I force the trade to happen, then your only comeback is to argue against the immense value that I gave up for the trade, and maybe I have an opinion that it is actually not too much. But getting the trade to consummate, that's easy and indisputable. If the other poster would play along and answer my question I can prove it to him from his standpoint. He has left the door open to say that 40% of our team could be enough, and so under that premise we only have to give up 80% of our team while still keeping a whopping 20% to get those players. So are you saying that 40% of our team (counting all players and draft picks/rights) are not enough to get either one of those guys? To me that sounds like an overpayment and I think I can get them for less anyhow. But I don't need to get a good price now, all i'm looking to do right now is refute your claim that they can say no, and they can't, cause again the onus is on me to deliver and I'm capable of giving them an offer THEY can't refuse, even if I would refuse it if I was in their shoes.