Trade thread (fans of other teams welcome)

[Mattya]

Bradley just doesn't have that value. Would need more than a very late 1st in this draft to even consider it.

[vagelis]

Some people should just give away their keyboards...

Rose has a $21.3 million contract with a 15% trade kicker, which means he has a $24.5 million dollar hit on your books. He has a large negative trade value, and his game is half in the dumps. Rubio is a much better PG at this point in time.

Rose, Pau, Gibson, Mirotic and Butler didn't make the playoffs in the East. The Wolves beat them both games... some of you guys are way overvaluing the Bulls players.

Rubio has a 14 million dollar contract and he cannot score even a layup.
For Rose it was the first time that he didn't make the playoffs and that was a great dissapointment.
Rubio has never made the playoffs but it is a great achievenent if he hits an open three.
Rose is a bust if he scores under 20 ppg and Rubio has a great season if he scores over 9 ppg.
I mean their level differs so much and the ecxpectations are very different.
It is crazy that some people compare them and believe that Rubio is better.
Rose could have become one of the greatest of all time.
For sure he was the most impressive basketball player of all time when he was full healthy.
He is a former mvp do you know what an mvp is?
Had this team ever an mvp in the roster?

[andyhop]

Rubio has a 14 million dollar contract and he cannot score even a layup.
For Rose it was the first time that he didn't make the playoffs and that was a great dissapointment.
Rubio has never made the playoffs but it is a great achievenent if he hits an open three.
Rose is a bust if he scores under 20 ppg and Rubio has a great season if he scores over 9 ppg.
I mean their level differs so much and the ecxpectations are very different.
It is crazy that some people compare them and believe that Rubio is better.
Rose could have become one of the greatest of all time.
For sure he was the most impressive basketball player of all time when he was full healthy.
He is a former mvp do you know what an mvp is?
Had this team ever an mvp in the roster?

Rose was probably the least valuable player in the league last year when you combine his negative value on court with his salary, if you want to pretend he was better than Rubio last year that is fine but it has no basis in reality

[Klomp]

Rubio has a 14 million dollar contract and he cannot score even a layup.
For Rose it was the first time that he didn't make the playoffs and that was a great dissapointment.
Rubio has never made the playoffs but it is a great achievenent if he hits an open three.
Rose is a bust if he scores under 20 ppg and Rubio has a great season if he scores over 9 ppg.
I mean their level differs so much and the ecxpectations are very different.
It is crazy that some people compare them and believe that Rubio is better.
Rose could have become one of the greatest of all time.
For sure he was the most impressive basketball player of all time when he was full healthy.
He is a former mvp do you know what an mvp is?
Had this team ever an mvp in the roster?

Know why this post is funny?

Field goal percentage from 0 to 5 feet:
Rubio: 50.4
Rose: 48.4

Who is the one who can't even hit a layup now?

As for the last part of your post, have you ever heard of this guy?

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xh1E6_mQ_JE[/youtube]
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsS0IGb1cbo[/youtube]

[minimus]

Maybe I have too much faith in Portis, but I'd do this trade:

#5 and Payne for Portis, McBucket and #14

Dieng/KAT +Pek
KAT/Portis/Bjelica +KG
Wiggins/McBucket/Luwawu
LaVine/Wiggins/Luwawu
Rubio/??/Jones

KAT+Portis is good defensive duo, while both have good face up game.

[Nitroglycerin]

Not reallt impressed with Portis. Dude cant jump. I like Felicio more

[Takingbaconback]

If Portis ended the year how he played the first half of the season, it would be a conversation. 5th pick is way too high to give up for him now. Kinda reminds me of how Taj Gibson hit the scene as this uber hustle scrappy dude who could shoot the midrange then plateaued.

[Klomp]

Oh boy, you really don't know what you are talking about. I was a big supporter of Gorgui for his first two seasons when most of you criticized him (yourself included, and unlike me you never thought he was starting material). He's a player I've always liked since his Louisville days. It's funny how protective you are of him now and how you accuse others of not wanting him.

You're right, I do believe that Dieng, in a perfect situation would come off the bench instead of start. I've always believed it's important to build up your bench to create depth and to not trade it away. Because sometimes depth is just as important as high-level talent.

However, while I used to be stubborn about that line of thinking, I've now come to realize more and more that a perfect situation might not be attainable. I need to stop thinking of players by only what they would be on the elitist of elite teams, because that's not reality. In a perfect world, Gorgui Dieng would come off the bench. That's not because I think he sucks, but because I think there are other players who are better. But this isn't a perfect world. This is a world over the years that has included starting centers on really good teams like Luc Longley, Ervin Johnson, Rasho Nesterovic, Kendrick Perkins, Tiago Splitter and Fabricio Oberto.

This is also a world that will have Towns, Wiggins and LaVine taking up 75% of the team's salary cap (or close to it) in a few years. It's important to make money-conscious decisions to surround them with as many good pieces as possible so this Timberwolves era doesn't become like the one 15 years ago...a 'what could have been' era. Dieng will cost considerably less than Noel on the open market. That is a fact.

That being said, it is also important to not rush to make moves sacrificing franchise longevity for immediate success. This isn't a core that is ready to win a title right now. Let these young guys grow at their own pace. Trading LaVine and 5 for Butler wouldn't give us a title in the next 3-4 years he's under contract for. When LaVine's new deal kicks in, he'll still be just 23. When Butler needs a new deal, he'll be 30 or 31. That also means his max contract value jumps to 30% of the salary cap instead of the 25% LaVine would be owed on a max deal.

[Klomp]

Maybe I have too much faith in Portis, but I'd do this trade:

#5 and Payne for Portis, McBucket and #14

Dieng/KAT +Pek
KAT/Portis/Bjelica +KG
Wiggins/McBucket/Luwawu
LaVine/Wiggins/Luwawu
Rubio/??/Jones

KAT+Portis is good defensive duo, while both have good face up game.

If you do a trade like this, it's important to have a cluster of wings that you'd be comfortable taking at 14. There's no guarantee Luwawu is there at 14, if he isn't, and he's the only wing you were targeting, you're screwed because PF might be BPA on the board after you just traded down to pick up another PF.

[big3_8_19_21]

Rubio has a 14 million dollar contract and he cannot score even a layup.
For Rose it was the first time that he didn't make the playoffs and that was a great dissapointment.
Rubio has never made the playoffs but it is a great achievenent if he hits an open three.
Rose is a bust if he scores under 20 ppg and Rubio has a great season if he scores over 9 ppg.
I mean their level differs so much and the ecxpectations are very different.
It is crazy that some people compare them and believe that Rubio is better.
Rose could have become one of the greatest of all time.
For sure he was the most impressive basketball player of all time when he was full healthy.
He is a former mvp do you know what an mvp is?
Had this team ever an mvp in the roster?

Know why this post is funny?

Field goal percentage from 0 to 5 feet:
Rubio: 50.4
Rose: 48.4

Who is the one who can't even hit a layup now?

As for the last part of your post, have you ever heard of this guy?

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xh1E6_mQ_JE[/youtube]
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsS0IGb1cbo[/youtube]

Plus Rubio crushed Rose in every advanced statistic this season. 2016 Derrick Rose is a bad starting point guard. Rubio with his extreme strengths and weaknesses is a decent starting point guard. The position could be improved, but people who just want to dump him are nuts. If we're getting rid of Rubio, we need to have a top 10-12 PG ready to replace him. Rose is a big downgrade. Rose's advanced stats were so bad this year, they were actually remarkably close to JJ Barea's final year in Minnesota, so I included that as reference for some of these.

Rubio - 52.9% TS%
Rose - 47.9% TS%
Barea ('13-'14) - 47.1% TS%

Rubio - 17.64 PER
Rose - 13.52 PER
Barea ('13-'14) - 11.6 PER

Rubio - 2.3 VORP
Rose - (-0.7) VORP
Barea ('13-'14) - (-0.6) VORP

Rubio - 5.8 win shares
Rose - 0.4 win shares
Barea ('13-'14) - 0.7 win shares

And Klomp, if you were looking for why this post is funny, this one line is maybe the most insane things I've ever read on RealGM:

For sure he was the most impressive basketball player of all time when he was full healthy.

[minimus]

Maybe I have too much faith in Portis, but I'd do this trade:

#5 and Payne for Portis, McBucket and #14

Dieng/KAT +Pek
KAT/Portis/Bjelica +KG
Wiggins/McBucket/Luwawu
LaVine/Wiggins/Luwawu
Rubio/??/Jones

KAT+Portis is good defensive duo, while both have good face up game.

If you do a trade like this, it's important to have a cluster of wings that you'd be comfortable taking at 14. There's no guarantee Luwawu is there at 14, if he isn't, and he's the only wing you were targeting, you're screwed because PF might be BPA on the board after you just traded down to pick up another PF.

Yep, agree. Still mid 1st pick is a good spot to pick up underrated 3&D wings. If draft a player with highest upside. and address 3&D issue via FA.

P.S. And I really like Portis game as he fits perfectly. His motor and passion will help us to build a defensive wall.

[Sugarless]

Oh boy, you really don't know what you are talking about. I was a big supporter of Gorgui for his first two seasons when most of you criticized him (yourself included, and unlike me you never thought he was starting material). He's a player I've always liked since his Louisville days. It's funny how protective you are of him now and how you accuse others of not wanting him.

You're right, I do believe that Dieng, in a perfect situation would come off the bench instead of start. I've always believed it's important to build up your bench to create depth and to not trade it away. Because sometimes depth is just as important as high-level talent.

However, while I used to be stubborn about that line of thinking, I've now come to realize more and more that a perfect situation might not be attainable. I need to stop thinking of players by only what they would be on the elitist of elite teams, because that's not reality. In a perfect world, Gorgui Dieng would come off the bench. That's not because I think he sucks, but because I think there are other players who are better. But this isn't a perfect world. This is a world over the years that has included starting centers on really good teams like Luc Longley, Ervin Johnson, Rasho Nesterovic, Kendrick Perkins, Tiago Splitter and Fabricio Oberto.

This is also a world that will have Towns, Wiggins and LaVine taking up 75% of the team's salary cap (or close to it) in a few years. It's important to make money-conscious decisions to surround them with as many good pieces as possible so this Timberwolves era doesn't become like the one 15 years ago...a 'what could have been' era. Dieng will cost considerably less than Noel on the open market. That is a fact.

That being said, it is also important to not rush to make moves sacrificing franchise longevity for immediate success. This isn't a core that is ready to win a title right now. Let these young guys grow at their own pace. Trading LaVine and 5 for Butler wouldn't give us a title in the next 3-4 years he's under contract for. When LaVine's new deal kicks in, he'll still be just 23. When Butler needs a new deal, he'll be 30 or 31. That also means his max contract value jumps to 30% of the salary cap instead of the 25% LaVine would be owed on a max deal.

I'm happy that you're seeing some things differently now, and of course we should always be mindful of our short and mid-term cap situation. However, that last one is precisely one of the best points of the two combined trades in my hypothesis: regardless of whether Noel gets a few million more per year than Gorgui, we're still in a great situation because we also don't have to re-sign Bazz and we have Bradley and Covington making a combined 9M per year for the next two seasons, and their contracts end right at the time that Zach's and Wiggins' rookie deals expire. That gives you a lot of flexibility that summer after two full seasons of developing that group together and seeing where each of those player stands, as well as the team.

Other than that, about the #5 + Lavine deal bringing Butler, it doesn't make sense to me to be talking about how that team wouldn't be able to win a title over the next 3-4 years. There's simply no way to predict that at this point, there just isn't, so I can't understand why some of you pretend to know what's going to happen so far away in the future. Did you or anybody know the Celtics would win a ring in 2008 years before they got Allen and KG? Did anyone know that Miami would dominate the East the way they did before they signed Lebron and Bosh? Did anyone predict the Warriors would win a championship and maybe a second one while beating the Bulls RS record 4 years ago, when they finished the season 23-43? And just the same way, didn't most people think the Thunder would win at least a couple rings over the past 6 or 7 years when in fact they've only been to the Finals once? Or what about the Lakers with Kobe, Gasol, Nash and Howard?

I think that's something where you can start looking at things differently too (not just you, there's plenty of fans who keep thinking in championship terms when the team hasn't been in the playoffs in a dozen years, which is insane). So instead of thinking in those terms, it's time to realize that the first step is to make this a playoff team with enough upside, and then you continue building from there whether it's with the same group or adding / moving some parts. The plan is the same one that some of us have been saying for a long time: you bring a better coach (check), you continue to add talent *that fits*, you bring more experienced guys and as long as you're smart with them you're not afraid to maneuver with trades and signings if you want to ultimately reach your goals. Otherwise you just get stuck like this team has been for over a decade.

[Sugarless]

Maybe I have too much faith in Portis, but I'd do this trade:

#5 and Payne for Portis, McBucket and #14

Dieng/KAT +Pek
KAT/Portis/Bjelica +KG
Wiggins/McBucket/Luwawu
LaVine/Wiggins/Luwawu
Rubio/??/Jones

KAT+Portis is good defensive duo, while both have good face up game.

If you do a trade like this, it's important to have a cluster of wings that you'd be comfortable taking at 14. There's no guarantee Luwawu is there at 14, if he isn't, and he's the only wing you were targeting, you're screwed because PF might be BPA on the board after you just traded down to pick up another PF.

Yep, agree. Still mid 1st pick is a good spot to pick up underrated 3&D wings. If draft a player with highest upside. and address 3&D issue via FA.

P.S. And I really like Portis game as he fits perfectly. His motor and passion will help us to build a defensive wall.

He's passionate, yes, and he has a high ceiling with his ability t shoot the ball, but he's also very very weak defensively right now.

[Klomp]

I think many people are overestimating how much guys are going to get paid, the cap is going up 30% over this year, not 200%... 30 year old guys who made $9 million this past season are not going to get $20 million next season, that's absurd, the GM's aren't morons.

Don't forget, the cap rising also means the salary floor rises. The percentage is still 90% of the cap ($82.8 million), which means it will be roughly a $20 million jump that teams will have to spend. There are only so many elite players, so the money will have to go somewhere. (and yes, I know the floor isn't really a requirement, but teams do tend to reach it).

This is another reason why keeping Pekovic and Garnett on the cap isn't such a bad thing. Then again, it also hurts my case against a trade for someone like Butler. We have only four roster spots open, so we'll have to pay someone well.

[Dleavitt24]

If you do a trade like this, it's important to have a cluster of wings that you'd be comfortable taking at 14. There's no guarantee Luwawu is there at 14, if he isn't, and he's the only wing you were targeting, you're screwed because PF might be BPA on the board after you just traded down to pick up another PF.

Yep, agree. Still mid 1st pick is a good spot to pick up underrated 3&D wings. If draft a player with highest upside. and address 3&D issue via FA.

P.S. And I really like Portis game as he fits perfectly. His motor and passion will help us to build a defensive wall.

He's passionate, yes, and he has a high ceiling with his ability t shoot the ball, but he's also very very weak defensively right now.

We're talking about 3 lotto type players/for our 1 high end lotto and a payne through in...might have to give up bazz and maybe take back a late first and a second(assets) for other years to get that done. And seen as u didn't have bazz in your lineup I take it you wouldn't mind that. Portis is a great fit because he's tough, rebounds and has range on his shot. Mcbuckets is a really good three point shooter. I think with our bigs having so much range we can afford some more defense at the guard pos. Dunn, brown, luwawu. Then with those draft picks we can pick up a three and D wing like Prince to develop. I like your lineup alot. It's important for this team to make sure they pick up another rookie to develop because there contracts are Soooo much cheaper and u need to have those guys ready incase other guys walk for the $$$$.

[jpatrick]

What do people think the cost would be to flip 5 for 3? I don't think Bender is going to fall and I believe he's not only the perfect fit long term, he's the third best player in this draft.

I don't think Bazz is enough but we don't have much else to add. Because Bender isn't going to be ready for heavy minutes for a year or two, I don't think we can move Dieng.

[Takingbaconback]

What do people think the cost would be to flip 5 for 3? I don't think Bender is going to fall and I believe he's not only the perfect fit long term, he's the third best player in this draft.

I don't think Bazz is enough but we don't have much else to add. Because Bender isn't going to be ready for heavy minutes for a year or two, I don't think we can move Dieng.

Easily you flip 5, Bazz, and Dieng for Bender if you think Bender is that good. I don't think Boston bites on that though. They need a much bigger impact in this draft, and if they like Bender too as in your scenario, Ainge won't trade the upside.

[gopher wolf]

I'd much rather have Portis over Dunn, Murray, Hield or Brown. With Bender it's more 50-50 but it Thib's thought he'd be a better fit than him, I'd back him 100%. At #14, Valentine is also a nice option.

[LordBaldric]

Perhaps trading our pick to Philly for Dario Saric would make sense for both teams, assuming he's coming over next season. I guess it depends on what Thibs thinks of Rubio's future on this team.

[Foye]

Perhaps trading our pick to Philly for Dario Saric would make sense for both teams, assuming he's coming over next season. I guess it depends on what Thibs thinks of Rubio's future on this team.

Not sure what Saric offers that Bjelica cant offer.