Rubio Thread Seis (VI)

[GopherIt!]

That's an unfortunate thread. The Dark Lord was totally on point though.

Strong the force was with that one.

[TMo519]

I think everyone needs to read this old thread over again to get a better idea of what the fans ACTUALLY thought back when Love signed the 4 year deal:

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=1155499

You'll see a lot of parallels to the current Rubio situation and conversation.

There weren't nearly as many people angry about the 4th year or worried about not giving the 5th year as you'd think by the current conversations.

I don't think I commented in that thread, but I was so sure we were on the rise (which in fairness, we have been improving year after year, just injuries and the wrong conference has killed us from really blossoming), I wasn't concerned about the 3rd year thing at all, I figured, we'd at least see the playoffs....

Oops.

[lobishome]

Something to consider...

If Rubio gets the five-year max, we won't be able to offer it to Zach LaVine.

NO, Lavine and Wiggins are still RFAs when Ricky ends his max five years contract. Give Ricky the MAX and Dan Fegan his 20 percent, and the future is the future.

[phonzadellika]

Time to inform everyone who says Rubio's issue is his shooting. That is not the case. His issues are stamina, (Which declined from the ACL), and his contact shot.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... ting/2014/

Everyone should take a look at his shooting splits.

Split Value FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% eFG% Ast'd %Ast'd
1st 98 226 .434 13 34 .382 .462 31 .316
2nd 38 119 .319 8 27 .296 .353 15 .395
3rd 91 225 .404 18 49 .367 .444 24 .264
4th 25 92 .272 5 21 .238 .299 10 .400
OT 3 8 .375 0 2 .000 .375 0 .000

It's worth noting that 1st quarter holds his highest %, followed by the 3rd. Obviously that has to do with the rest.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... lits/2014/

If you then look at other splits, including month by month, you'd notice there is a steady rise in his shooting as the season progresses. Rest is another big one. With 2 days rest, he shot 49.6%, with no rest 36.6%. Not a coincidence.

Why does this happen? He was recovering from the ACL early on, and this is him increasing stamina and his ability to complete contact shots.

That's an interesting tidbit, but it doesn't take Dr. James Naismith to see his shot is broken. Just look at his jump shot. It's broke. But you're right, tired legs and a broke jump shot doesn't make it any better.

There have been times when his shot has looked good. It's more of a consistency thing than anything else. I think he prioritizes putting himself in the best position for making the shot last in his thought processes while he's playing the game. He probably shoots in practice well because he's concentrating on what he needs to do to make shots while in the game he's concentrating on the offense and just reflexively shoots when he has the chance. His reflex shot hasn't caught up to his practice shot yet.

[Worm Guts]

To me LaVine is irrelevant to the fact that RUBIO IS NOT WORTH A FIVE YEAR MAX CONTRACT

Who on the Wolves current roster is?

How long do you save it for?

"Each team in the NBA can nominate a rookie player to receive a "Designated Player" contract extension. A Designated Player is eligible for a 5-year contract extension, instead of being held to the standard 4-year restriction.[6] A team can only allocate a single Designated Player contract at any one time (if a team has already extended a rookie contract by using the Designated Player extension they cannot create a second Designated Player contract until the current contract expires, or until the player moves to a different team);"

Are we only going to use it if we get a Lebron/Durant level player at some point?

The idea of giving a max contract out just because we can is pretty ridiculous, of course so is saving it for anyone currently on our roster. We should have given it to Love, but Ricky isn't going to get that type of offer if you let him test the FA market.

[Adenusi]

To me LaVine is irrelevant to the fact that RUBIO IS NOT WORTH A FIVE YEAR MAX CONTRACT

Who on the Wolves current roster is?

How long do you save it for?

"Each team in the NBA can nominate a rookie player to receive a "Designated Player" contract extension. A Designated Player is eligible for a 5-year contract extension, instead of being held to the standard 4-year restriction.[6] A team can only allocate a single Designated Player contract at any one time (if a team has already extended a rookie contract by using the Designated Player extension they cannot create a second Designated Player contract until the current contract expires, or until the player moves to a different team);"

Are we only going to use it if we get a Lebron/Durant level player at some point?

The idea of giving a max contract out just because we can is pretty ridiculous

Exactly, that would be such a "Wolves" thing to do.

[Feilong]

Time to inform everyone who says Rubio's issue is his shooting. That is not the case. His issues are stamina, (Which declined from the ACL), and his contact shot.

It is even more obvious with back to back games. In the 2nd game he looks exhausted and his performance is mediocre.

[Bballfan100]

As much as I like rubio I think this article highlights what's wrong with his shot. Though I agree the acl injury has probably slowed his progress as well.

http://hoopshype.com/columns/david-nurs ... ubios-shot

Its a pretty good read check it out.

[Klomp]

Something to consider...

If Rubio gets the five-year max, we won't be able to offer it to Zach LaVine.

NO, Lavine and Wiggins are still RFAs when Ricky ends his max five years contract. Give Ricky the MAX and Dan Fegan his 20 percent, and the future is the future.

Rubio's five year max would be 15-16 / 16-17 / 17-18 / 18-19 / 19-20
Lavine's rookie deal is 14-15 / 15-16 / 16-17 / 17-18. A extension would start in 18-19.

[Saltine]

I think he's heading towards a Curry level 4/$44 deal. I don't think there is a team out there that will give him a max deal in RFA, his agent doesn't have a lot of recourse in a negotiation...

If they do give him the Max, it will be much cheaper then the Max deals that start in 2016... starting at $11 million versus $15 million won't be that big a deal when the cap is around $80 million, instead of $66m, and a Max deal would start around $18m for him. So he'd still be somewhat discounted...

[urinesane]

If the Wolves get Wiggins, it may be better long term for both franchises.

If Rubio is going to become the player many thought he could (and I still think can) he needed to be thrust into the leadership role.

The balance on this team was obviously a factor, especially when it came to the pairing of Love/Pek down low (offering zero rim protection). Then having Rubio on the wings working his butt off, but having Kmart's D and Brew's itch to gamble next to him.

All of a sudden the roster of this team looks like it could be a quick rebuild.

- Rubio may gain the most out of a deal for Wiggins. If they can get rid of Kmart and JJ, all of a sudden this team looks a lot more athletic (even faster than last year's squad) and a lot better defensively. I think he will improve his shooting this offseason, and Love being gone (as well as possibly Kmart) he won't feel the pressure of making the top 3 guys happy by getting enough touches. He will be able to be aggressive and establish his offense early, which many times made the difference between him struggling or looking brilliant last season.

I think he will shift his mindset on offense, much like he did at the end of his second season. He had some pretty high scoring games (a great one against the Bucks) and did a solid job of taking on a decent chunk of the scoring load. He needs to have a Nash mindset and make sure that he establishes himself as a scoring threat, and he doesn't have to shoot like Nash to do it.

- Lavine seems like he could be a very nice SG next to Rubio, with his ability to spot up shoot as well as his speed and ability to score in transition. It's also nice that he can handle the ball, which only adds options for the Wolves to use in different lineups. He should be the starting SG of the future though if he develops.

- Wiggins may not know it, but this could be the best thing for his future in the NBA. If the Cavs keep him and don't get Love, he is automatically burdened with the pressure of being the 3rd piece in a championship team. That is too much for any 19 year old to take on, especially one that will need time to develop his offense. Having one of the most unselfish guards in the league will be way more beneficial for his offensive confidence to grow than it would with a scoring PG like Irving.

- Dieng will play at the PF spot where he will match up size wise better with most PFs and offer shotblocking down low and will make a great rebounding duo with Pek. If he just develops his post offense and midrange shot, he will be very Serge Ibaka like and the best defender for the Wolves since KG.

- Pek will benefit by getting more touches down low, especially in half court action, since Love and Kmart won't need their touches. His defense isn't actually bad, he has great positioning and footwork and has really improved since his rookie year. He defends well without fouling, but with Dieng vs Love, guards and larger Centers won't feel so easy going at Pek with Dieng's shotblocking (as well as Wiggins shotblocking) looming over them.

All of a sudden this team goes from being a super offensive mismatch of weapons, but with under sized and skilled defense. To a freakishly athletic squad with a wizard running your offense, a bruising scoring, shot blocking and rebounding duo in Pek/Dieng.

Lavine a long speedy defender (who keeps his man in front of him) and is great at moving without the ball and getting out in transition (which are both great compliments to Rubio's game).

Throw in a potential superstar and worst case great defender in Wiggins, and all of a sudden things don't look so gloomy for the future of this franchise. You all of a sudden get extremely young and talented on good contracts (Pek has a good contract, especially if he becomes a 20/10 guy).

[Note30]

If the Wolves get Wiggins, it may be better long term for both franchises.

If Rubio is going to become the player many thought he could (and I still think can) he needed to be thrust into the leadership role.

The balance on this team was obviously a factor, especially when it came to the pairing of Love/Pek down low (offering zero rim protection). Then having Rubio on the wings working his butt off, but having Kmart's D and Brew's itch to gamble next to him.

All of a sudden the roster of this team looks like it could be a quick rebuild.

- Rubio may gain the most out of a deal for Wiggins. If they can get rid of Kmart and JJ, all of a sudden this team looks a lot more athletic (even faster than last year's squad) and a lot better defensively. I think he will improve his shooting this offseason, and Love being gone (as well as possibly Kmart) he won't feel the pressure of making the top 3 guys happy by getting enough touches. He will be able to be aggressive and establish his offense early, which many times made the difference between him struggling or looking brilliant last season.

I think he will shift his mindset on offense, much like he did at the end of his second season. He had some pretty high scoring games (a great one against the Bucks) and did a solid job of taking on a decent chunk of the scoring load. He needs to have a Nash mindset and make sure that he establishes himself as a scoring threat, and he doesn't have to shoot like Nash to do it.

- Lavine seems like he could be a very nice SG next to Rubio, with his ability to spot up shoot as well as his speed and ability to score in transition. It's also nice that he can handle the ball, which only adds options for the Wolves to use in different lineups. He should be the starting SG of the future though if he develops.

- Wiggins may not know it, but this could be the best thing for his future in the NBA. If the Cavs keep him and don't get Love, he is automatically burdened with the pressure of being the 3rd piece in a championship team. That is too much for any 19 year old to take on, especially one that will need time to develop his offense. Having one of the most unselfish guards in the league will be way more beneficial for his offensive confidence to grow than it would with a scoring PG like Irving.

- Dieng will play at the PF spot where he will match up size wise better with most PFs and offer shotblocking down low and will make a great rebounding duo with Pek. If he just develops his post offense and midrange shot, he will be very Serge Ibaka like and the best defender for the Wolves since KG.

- Pek will benefit by getting more touches down low, especially in half court action, since Love and Kmart won't need their touches. His defense isn't actually bad, he has great positioning and footwork and has really improved since his rookie year. He defends well without fouling, but with Dieng vs Love, guards and larger Centers won't feel so easy going at Pek with Dieng's shotblocking (as well as Wiggins shotblocking) looming over them.

All of a sudden this team goes from being a super offensive mismatch of weapons, but with under sized and skilled defense. To a freakishly athletic squad with a wizard running your offense, a bruising scoring, shot blocking and rebounding duo in Pek/Dieng.

Lavine a long speedy defender (who keeps his man in front of him) and is great at moving without the ball and getting out in transition (which are both great compliments to Rubio's game).

Throw in a potential superstar and worst case great defender in Wiggins, and all of a sudden things don't look so gloomy for the future of this franchise. You all of a sudden get extremely young and talented on good contracts (Pek has a good contract, especially if he becomes a 20/10 guy).

Toss in Muhammad and a healthy Bud off the bench and all the picks minny can get and suddenly were the most exciting team in the west

[Nitroglycerin]

With Love gone, I think Rubio will have a great season
I think he's the kind of player that doesnt feel entitled to steal the spotlight from other players
hence him being content with being a role player for Love
With him as the main man,he needs to bring his brand of basketball back

[criteriado]

My worry with Ricky and RFA is signing a 3/33 contract with an opt out after year two. Then you're ****.

[C.lupus]

My worry with Ricky and RFA is signing a 3/33 contract with an opt out after year two. Then you're ****.

Flip is smarter than Kahn and Taylor has learned his lesson. Don't see that happening.

[C-Dub47]

My worry with Ricky and RFA is signing a 3/33 contract with an opt out after year two. Then you're ****.

Flip is smarter than Kahn and Taylor has learned his lesson. Don't see that happening.

This.

I think Ricky likes it here, and this will be his team when Love leaves. Problem is he obviously wants to win, and dealing our best player likely won't help. Hopefully with Love gone Ricky is more comfortable and can do his thing and other guys step up there game. I really hope we put Dieng out there at PF though, because we really do need a rim protector next to Pek.

[criteriado]

My worry with Ricky and RFA is signing a 3/33 contract with an opt out after year two. Then you're ****.

Flip is smarter than Kahn and Taylor has learned his lesson. Don't see that happening.

Well, he can go to another team as an RFA to sign an offer sheet like that. Parsons did that.

[AQuintus]

My worry with Ricky and RFA is signing a 3/33 contract with an opt out after year two. Then you're ****.

I really doubt they'd ever do the player option after 3 years crap again. There's absolutely no reason to include that (and there was no reason to include it in Love's deal). The player has very little leverage to force it into the deal, and no other team will include it in an offer (when the player is a RFA).

[urinesane]

My worry with Ricky and RFA is signing a 3/33 contract with an opt out after year two. Then you're ****.

Flip is smarter than Kahn and Taylor has learned his lesson. Don't see that happening.

Well, he can go to another team as an RFA to sign an offer sheet like that. Parsons did that.

Why would he go to another team to take that deal?

Seems kind of ridiculous to even consider. I'm guessing this year he has a very good year and they extend him 5 years next offseason. Ricky becomes the face of the franchise and helps the young players develop more quickly, since he will put them in positions to get easy baskets and wide open shots.

Although I would prefer to keep Love, him being traded for Wiggins may actually make this team a lot more balanced, because it's tough to not have Love/Pek together since they are so good offensively, but a terrible post pairing for defense. With Dieng down there, PG's won't feel confident in their ability to drive and get to the rim or drive and kick to wide open shooters (which we will have better wing defenders on).

[C.lupus]

I'm more concerned about a 4/60+ offer than a 3/33 offer with opt out.