ImageImageImage

Derrick Williams: Time to Move On?

Moderators: Worm Guts, C.lupus, Klomp

Derrick Williams: Stay or Go?

He didn't pan out and it's time to get value back while we can.
76
58%
Keep him! Only letting him go in the perfect deal.
55
42%
 
Total votes: 131

cube
Freshman
Posts: 94
And1: 20
Joined: Aug 05, 2011
Location: Estonia

Re: Derrick Williams: Time to Move On? 

Post#401 » by cube » Sun Dec 30, 2012 11:10 pm

Kahn touch this wrote:Stephen jackson?

No way! Im not sure he would like it in Min and could become cancerous like he was in Mil.

Have been thinking about Splitter for Derrick + 1, this would only work if SA sees enough potential in Derrick. Only problem would be resigning Splitter. For that we would need to ship Ridnour (or Barea) for an expiring wing (Wright, D.Jones). Then maybe get Rip for Roy if Chi is really looking to save some money.

Rubio, Barea/Ridnour
Rip, Shved
Ak, Gelabale?, Jones, (Budinger)
Love, Cunningham, Amudson
Pek, Splitter, Steamer
User avatar
Calinks
RealGM
Posts: 29,134
And1: 2,300
Joined: Mar 29, 2006
   

Re: Derrick Williams: Time to Move On? 

Post#402 » by Calinks » Sun Dec 30, 2012 11:15 pm

Any Williams trade that isn't bringing in a wing who can hit the three or a bonafide game changer is almost not worth discussing in my mind.
Image
When luck shuts the door skill comes in through the window.
shrink
RealGM
Posts: 34,548
And1: 374
Joined: Sep 26, 2005

Re: Derrick Williams: Time to Move On? 

Post#403 » by shrink » Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:59 am

Skin wrote: Do you see Redick leaving the TWolves for a better situation? How many teams out there will let him start? Of those teams, how many have the cap space to spend on him? You seem to have an idea that you will lose him in the offseason. But I'm trying to think of reasons why he would.


First, as I said, there's no guarantee we'd get to keep him, because he's a UFA. Are we hoping that his 4 months in MIN will get him to love the place.

As for another team - how about the one I mentioned: ORL? Supposedly he loves it there ,and is closely tied to the community. The Magic would have no trouble finding the cap space to offer him more than he's worth, especially since he's a fan favorite there.

Skin wrote: How are you coming up with the idea that your cap would exceed the luxury tax? This year it was around $70M.


Do you mean our "payroll" will exceed the lux, instead of the cap? If so, we may be right up against it, if we keep Pek, the MIN/MEM 1st, Buddinger (or why did we waste the #16 pick last year?) and/or the MLE .. PLUS a deal for Redick? I don't know what gets cut, but even if Redick stays and we "got" to pay him, it will be at the expense of one or two of the other - or Glen Taylor paying lux taxes.
User avatar
Skin
General Manager
Posts: 7,637
And1: 1,265
Joined: Jul 03, 2009
 

Re: Derrick Williams: Time to Move On? 

Post#404 » by Skin » Mon Dec 31, 2012 5:59 am

shrink wrote:
Skin wrote: Do you see Redick leaving the TWolves for a better situation? How many teams out there will let him start? Of those teams, how many have the cap space to spend on him? You seem to have an idea that you will lose him in the offseason. But I'm trying to think of reasons why he would.


First, as I said, there's no guarantee we'd get to keep him, because he's a UFA. Are we hoping that his 4 months in MIN will get him to love the place.

As for another team - how about the one I mentioned: ORL? Supposedly he loves it there ,and is closely tied to the community. The Magic would have no trouble finding the cap space to offer him more than he's worth, especially since he's a fan favorite there.

Skin wrote: How are you coming up with the idea that your cap would exceed the luxury tax? This year it was around $70M.


Do you mean our "payroll" will exceed the lux, instead of the cap? If so, we may be right up against it, if we keep Pek, the MIN/MEM 1st, Buddinger (or why did we waste the #16 pick last year?) and/or the MLE .. PLUS a deal for Redick? I don't know what gets cut, but even if Redick stays and we "got" to pay him, it will be at the expense of one or two of the other - or Glen Taylor paying lux taxes.

Nah, if ORL traded Redick, he wouldn't return. Why would he leave MIN where he starts just to be coming off the bench again in ORL? Magic GM, Rob Hennigan is trying to remake the team in his own vision. You saw how easily he let go of Ryan Anderson. Being a fan favorite doesn't mean as much as you think it does. Afflalo was the biggest piece in the Howard trade and he's the present and future at SG for the Magic. Getting him just made it easier for the Magic to trade Redick.

One thing I don't understand is Pek's contract. Don't you guys have another year before you need to give him a new contract? In any case, I still don't see how Pek, Budinger, a non-lottery 1st rounder and Redick take you over the luxury tax, especially when you're subtracting D-Will's contract.
Image
Playoffs, here we come!
Dewey
Analyst
Posts: 3,221
And1: 84
Joined: May 22, 2001

Re: Derrick Williams: Time to Move On? 

Post#405 » by Dewey » Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:09 pm

way too much OVER ANALYSIS on roster moves ... if there's a player who fits a position of need and can help move the peg - you work to make a move. "A bird in the hand is better than two in the bush". If Reddick (or whoever) fits the team and RA is on board, then DK makes it work. I see no major road-blocks other than it still takes two teams.

My ONLY caution is that some of these guys look real good to us because we are so weak at certain positions, and long-term, we may find they are unable to meet expectations for the $$. Still, these are sometimes necessary. Low risk/progressive steps forward are the name of the game for building teams - Plan B is to swing for the fence in the off-season and risk coming away with a K....

Bottom-line: If we could add Reddick, etc... - you do this small step now and go for a bigger addition this summer. We are very mediocre and to think we can get by with 10-day patchwork contracts is completely insane. That will drive down team attitude quicker than mice on skates.
Flip response to Love wanting out, "He has no reason to be upset, you're either a part of the problem or a part of the solution"
shrink
RealGM
Posts: 34,548
And1: 374
Joined: Sep 26, 2005

Re: Derrick Williams: Time to Move On? 

Post#406 » by shrink » Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:03 pm

Skin wrote:One thing I don't understand is Pek's contract. Don't you guys have another year before you need to give him a new contract? In any case, I still don't see how Pek, Budinger, a non-lottery 1st rounder and Redick take you over the luxury tax, especially when you're subtracting D-Will's contract.


Pek is a restricted free agent after this season. We plan to keep him, so we need to match another team's best offer.

As for going over the lux, here's the numbers:

$14,693,906 Kevin Love
$10,219,420 Andrei Kilenko
$4,687,000 JJ Barea
$4,320,000 Luke Ridnour
$3,678,358 Ricky Rubio
$3,066,667 Alexey Shved
$2,690,875 Greg Steimsma
$2,180,000 Dante Cunningham
$884,293 Malcolm Lee
$46,420,519 MINNESOTA TOTALS

$11,000,000 Pekovic new deal?
$4,000,000 Buddinger new deal?
$1,000,000 MIN/MEM new deal?
$7,000,000 Redick new deal - must outbid all offers
$5,150,000 MLE
$74,570,519 TOTAL 2013 SALARY

The lux may go up, but the last few years it's been $70.3 mil.

Your next step would be to eliminate contracts, but even that's tough. Steimsma's not guaranteed, but we'd need "somebody" as a back-up center. Pek is looking like he may get an offer for more than $11 mil, and outbidding all offers for Redick might be north of $7. Your trade may require us to trade Ridnour or Barea and demand that we get an expiring, which is also limiting. We could not use the MLE, but it wastes an annual opportunity to add talent to the team without giving up anything but money -- a better alternative than trading an asset like Williams.
User avatar
[RCG]
Head Coach
Posts: 7,047
And1: 135
Joined: May 24, 2010
Location: Saint Paul

Re: Derrick Williams: Time to Move On? 

Post#407 » by [RCG] » Mon Dec 31, 2012 5:48 pm

I wouldn't be opposed to trading Ridnour for an expiring - or Barea.
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt
User avatar
Esohny
RealGM
Posts: 11,600
And1: 332
Joined: Apr 18, 2009
Location: Saint Paul
     

Re: Derrick Williams: Time to Move On? 

Post#408 » by Esohny » Mon Dec 31, 2012 6:29 pm

[RCG] wrote:I wouldn't be opposed to trading Ridnour for an expiring - or Barea.


Nope. The PG ranks need to be trimmed down by at least 1 (maybe 2 players).

As for the costs above, I really doubt that AK47 opts in to his 2nd year. He'll opt out and go for a longer term deal, which I would expect that the Wolves could give him for a lower yearly salary. And then there's Redick; I doubt he gets above 7 million a season.

Not that it matters. I don't have much faith in a meaningful in-season trade anyway.
SMAC-K wrote:Mayo>>>>Love and that 5th pick
OJ Mayo is one of the best defenders in the league, hes a two way player and hes a great passer and playmaker.
User avatar
theGreatRC
RealGM
Posts: 14,404
And1: 1,238
Joined: Oct 12, 2006
Location: California
 

Re: Derrick Williams: Time to Move On? 

Post#409 » by theGreatRC » Tue Jan 1, 2013 8:06 pm

No trading JJ or Luke until Rubio strings together 5-8 good games in a row, showing flashes of his normal self: Energetic, pesky defender and elite passer.
Timberwolves 2015-2016 Playoff bandwagon list:
TheGreatRC
note30
User avatar
Klomp
Forum Mod - Timberwolves
Forum Mod - Timberwolves
Posts: 39,475
And1: 3,316
Joined: Jul 08, 2005
Contact:
   

Re: Derrick Williams: Time to Move On? 

Post#410 » by Klomp » Tue Jan 1, 2013 8:20 pm

theGreatRC wrote:No trading JJ or Luke until Rubio strings together 5-8 good games in a row, showing flashes of his normal self: Energetic, pesky defender and elite passer.

I agree. And I don't see that happening before the trade deadline at this rate.
Image
DusterBuster wrote:Klomp is like the ultimate troll mod.

Esohny wrote:Why are you asking Klomp? "He's" actually a bot that posts random blurbs from a database.
shrink
RealGM
Posts: 34,548
And1: 374
Joined: Sep 26, 2005

Re: Derrick Williams: Time to Move On? 

Post#411 » by shrink » Fri Jan 4, 2013 5:54 pm

Darren Wolfson twitter wrote: I'll add this on DWill value: Suns/Rockets/Spurs/LAL loved him entering draft. Maybe solo he fetches a lot w/ them. Just doubt Orl.


Good place to start trades.
User avatar
theGreatRC
RealGM
Posts: 14,404
And1: 1,238
Joined: Oct 12, 2006
Location: California
 

Re: Derrick Williams: Time to Move On? 

Post#412 » by theGreatRC » Fri Jan 4, 2013 6:04 pm

Let's see, players that I would take on those teams:

Suns: Dudley, Brown
Rockets: Nobody worth D-Will
Spurs: Leonard (I want him on this team so bad)
Lakers: ehh...
Timberwolves 2015-2016 Playoff bandwagon list:
TheGreatRC
note30
User avatar
Klomp
Forum Mod - Timberwolves
Forum Mod - Timberwolves
Posts: 39,475
And1: 3,316
Joined: Jul 08, 2005
Contact:
   

Re: Derrick Williams: Time to Move On? 

Post#413 » by Klomp » Fri Jan 4, 2013 6:07 pm

theGreatRC wrote:Spurs: Leonard (I want him on this team so bad)

Triust me, I feel the same way.

Ultimately, it would likely be a Danny Green trade
Image
DusterBuster wrote:Klomp is like the ultimate troll mod.

Esohny wrote:Why are you asking Klomp? "He's" actually a bot that posts random blurbs from a database.
pad300
Pro Prospect
Posts: 889
And1: 22
Joined: Feb 16, 2005

Re: Derrick Williams: Time to Move On? 

Post#414 » by pad300 » Sat Jan 5, 2013 5:14 am

For those looking for a spurs DWilliams trade. Free info, you can forget about Kawhi. Unless you are willing to include a first, you can forget about Green - he's in their starting line up for a reason, and they think they have a shot this year. Start thinking about Bonner, Blair, Gary Neal (maybe), Curtis Joseph, and other prospects (Nando de Colo maybe)...Sjax maybe (but at $10 million of expiring, they will want more for the salary cap space than just DWilliams).
User avatar
Klomp
Forum Mod - Timberwolves
Forum Mod - Timberwolves
Posts: 39,475
And1: 3,316
Joined: Jul 08, 2005
Contact:
   

Re: Derrick Williams: Time to Move On? 

Post#415 » by Klomp » Sat Jan 5, 2013 5:22 am

pad300 wrote:For those looking for a spurs DWilliams trade. Free info, you can forget about Kawhi. Unless you are willing to include a first, you can forget about Green - he's in their starting line up for a reason, and they think they have a shot this year. Start thinking about Bonner, Blair, Gary Neal (maybe), Curtis Joseph, and other prospects (Nando de Colo maybe)...Sjax maybe (but at $10 million of expiring, they will want more for the salary cap space than just DWilliams).

If you say so...
Image
DusterBuster wrote:Klomp is like the ultimate troll mod.

Esohny wrote:Why are you asking Klomp? "He's" actually a bot that posts random blurbs from a database.
User avatar
theGreatRC
RealGM
Posts: 14,404
And1: 1,238
Joined: Oct 12, 2006
Location: California
 

Re: Derrick Williams: Time to Move On? 

Post#416 » by theGreatRC » Sat Jan 5, 2013 5:24 am

pad300 wrote:For those looking for a spurs DWilliams trade. Free info, you can forget about Kawhi. Unless you are willing to include a first, you can forget about Green - he's in their starting line up for a reason, and they think they have a shot this year. Start thinking about Bonner, Blair, Gary Neal (maybe), Curtis Joseph, and other prospects (Nando de Colo maybe)...Sjax maybe (but at $10 million of expiring, they will want more for the salary cap space than just DWilliams).



How kind of you. :roll:

Gary Neal has been trash outside of a few good games this season, trying to create more for himself rather than going back to what made him so great last year, which was a spot up shooter.
Timberwolves 2015-2016 Playoff bandwagon list:
TheGreatRC
note30
User avatar
Mattya
General Manager
Posts: 8,917
And1: 1,447
Joined: Aug 08, 2008
   

Re: Derrick Williams: Time to Move On? 

Post#417 » by Mattya » Sat Jan 5, 2013 5:27 am

pad300 wrote:For those looking for a spurs DWilliams trade. Free info, you can forget about Kawhi. Unless you are willing to include a first, you can forget about Green - he's in their starting line up for a reason, and they think they have a shot this year. Start thinking about Bonner, Blair, Gary Neal (maybe), Curtis Joseph, and other prospects (Nando de Colo maybe)...Sjax maybe (but at $10 million of expiring, they will want more for the salary cap space than just DWilliams).


Well then there is nothing to talk about.
User avatar
The J Rocka
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 13,529
And1: 1,705
Joined: Jun 27, 2009
Location: Minneapolis
   

Re: Derrick Williams: Time to Move On? 

Post#418 » by The J Rocka » Sat Jan 5, 2013 5:43 am

pad300 wrote:For those looking for a Wolves Parker trade. Free info, you can forget about Love. Unless you are willing to include a first, you can forget about Pekovic - he's in their starting line up for a reason, and they think they have a shot this year. Start thinking about Stiemsma, Cunningham, Barea (maybe), Ridnour, and other prospects (Bjelica's rights maybe)...Roy maybe (but at $5 million that may look to be an expiring with little-to-none guaranteed next season, they will want more for the salary cap space than just Parker).
mmmdk
Ballboy
Posts: 5
And1: 0
Joined: Nov 03, 2008

Re: Derrick Williams: Time to Move On? 

Post#419 » by mmmdk » Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:45 pm

Derrick Williams is a tweener, granted, but so is Thaddeus Young and Thad's doing really well. But why does Adelman want to turn Williams into a shooter? Williams may be a tweener but is athletic & stronger than coaching staff acknowledges and hence Williams himself. Williams was draftes a wee bit too high but he's not being developped AT ALL by Adelman; I've lost all respect for Adelman - he's the truely overrated one!
User avatar
Klomp
Forum Mod - Timberwolves
Forum Mod - Timberwolves
Posts: 39,475
And1: 3,316
Joined: Jul 08, 2005
Contact:
   

Re: Derrick Williams: Time to Move On? 

Post#420 » by Klomp » Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:47 pm

mmmdk wrote:Derrick Williams is a tweener, granted, but so is Thaddeus Young and Thad's doing really well. But why does Adelman want to turn Williams into a shooter? Williams may be a tweener but is athletic & stronger than coaching staff acknowledges and hence Williams himself. Williams was draftes a wee bit too high but he's not being developped AT ALL by Adelman; I've lost all respect for Adelman - he's the truely overrated one!

If you watched him drive and finish, you'd know why
Image
DusterBuster wrote:Klomp is like the ultimate troll mod.

Esohny wrote:Why are you asking Klomp? "He's" actually a bot that posts random blurbs from a database.

Return to Minnesota Timberwolves