Rumors for a Pau trade in spanish newspaper

[Klomp]

"He" hasn't talked to the Lakers, doesn't mean somebody else didn't make a phone call. I still think based on Doogie's reports that Kahn/Adelman are still very intrigued by Gasol. Since a deal can't be worked out by Dec. 15th (Roy), i think things will quiet down until then, which should give LA and MN in opportunity to see their teams at full strength first. Certainly makes sense for all parties involved to be patient for now.

I've always thought this to be the case. People think that if its in the media today that it will go down in a day or two. I've always expected this to be a deadline deal, so nothing has really changed in my mind after hearing Kahn talk.

[Krapinsky]

http://www.nba.com/timberwolves/news/ka ... hootaround

Very strong denial by Kahn.

[shrink]

For the record, I believe this post gives proper context --

Toss the idea out on the neutral trade board that "Gasol is well worth his contract" and you'll get blasted by 29 different teams.

I looked and could not find any post where I said he was "well" worth his contract. I'm not trying to backtrack. I think if he has a positive trade value then he is worth his contract, but i think you added "well worth" to create some safe distance for yourself.

I thought I was pretty discrete on the challenge. Those were the words, and you read them and posted here that you accepted that challenge.

There are many ways to try to convince people he's worth his contract, either through stats, or the freedom of money, or experience, or fit -- you chose to use this as a way to examine the concept of trade value. I'm glad you did, because it was an interesting discussion. However, "trade value" was not part of the challenge you chose to accept.

[Krapinsky]

For the record, I believe this post gives proper context --

Toss the idea out on the neutral trade board that "Gasol is well worth his contract" and you'll get blasted by 29 different teams.

I looked and could not find any post where I said he was "well" worth his contract. I'm not trying to backtrack. I think if he has a positive trade value then he is worth his contract, but i think you added "well worth" to create some safe distance for yourself.

I thought I was pretty discrete on the challenge. Those were the words, and you read them and posted here that you accepted that challenge.

There are many ways to try to convince people he's worth his contract, either through stats, or the freedom of money, or experience, or fit -- you chose to use this as a way to examine the concept of trade value. I'm glad you did, because it was an interesting discussion. However, "trade value" was not part of the challenge you chose to accept.

Shrink, you never cease to amaze me. The challenge you proposed was not a position i ever took. I pointed that out. Now I own the position because that's the challenge you proposed -- by slipping in "well worth his contract" -- when my position before was clearly tied to him having positive trade value.

[Krapinsky]

Jon Krawczynski ‏@APkrawczynski
Kahn's emphatic statements aside, it's no secret Wolves have long coveted Pau. Adelman thinks Pau-Love could = Vlade-CWebb

[shrink]

I thought I was pretty discrete on the challenge. Those were the words, and you read them and posted here that you accepted that challenge.

There are many ways to try to convince people he's worth his contract, either through stats, or the freedom of money, or experience, or fit -- you chose to use this as a way to examine the concept of trade value. I'm glad you did, because it was an interesting discussion. However, "trade value" was not part of the challenge you chose to accept.

Shrink, you never cease to amaze me. The challenge you proposed was not a position i ever took. I pointed that out. Now I own the position because that's the challenge you proposed -- by slipping in "well worth his contract" -- when my position before was clearly tied to him having positive trade value.

I try to teach my children that they are responsible for what they do. I wrote it down very clearly,

Toss the idea out on the neutral trade board that "Gasol is well worth his contract" and you'll get blasted by 29 different teams.

... and you wrote here that you accepted the challenge, then you wrote it down on the trade board.

Just because people aren't agreeing with you, don't blame me for your choices, and then say I was the one who made you say it!

Finally, there is no one that is saying he is worth his contract .. let alone "well" worth his contract, if you think that matters.

[shrink]

Also, I hope you can tell that I don't have any malice here for you.

I enjoyed reading many of the posts that your thread inspired. However, I disagreed with your many posts argueing a higher valuation of Pau Gasol, and wanted you to realize that you may be over-valueing a local guy.

Hey - that happens. But it was starting to obstruct a fair discussion of what was reasonable in a Pau Gasol trade. I wanted you to realize that the majority does not put thatsame value on Pau - for whatever that's worth.

[Krapinsky]

Whose "idea" was that Shrink? Mine or yours? The only child involved here is you. Never refusing to even see a middle ground (as recognized by Hartford). Always twisting peoples positions to make you look right. Always returning to gloat when you think you're right. Always needing the last word.

[Krapinsky]

Let's recap once again, and hopefully for the last time:

That's true. On the other hand, Pek may be worth his contract .. Gasol certainly isn't. And locking up a center in Pek may not be such a bad thing either.

I don't know how I feel about this issue from a perspective on franchise value

If Gasol isn't worth his contract then why is there a trade market for him that returns positive assets? That tells me that despite your POV, the market says he's worth his contract.

Oh? Who's saying that?

Toss the idea out on the neutral trade board that "Gasol is well worth his contract" and you'll get blasted by 29 different teams.

Here you take my position (bolded) and make a statement equating that position with the statement "Gasol is well worth his contract."

There's two ways to view this --
1) Is he overpaid? (your view point)
2) Is there a trade market for him that returns positive value? (my viewpoint -- bolded)

Now -- if you go back and read the trade thread and the discussion that also follows here -- you see people saying Yes to 1) and Yes to 2)

How can this be so? After all, you equated my statement (bolded) with "Gasol is well worth his contract"

It appears most don't think this means the same thing.

EDIT: And I'd add -- that i actually disagree. I think they're the same thing and I haven't bought anyone's explanation stating they should be different. But it just so happens that is how different people viewpoints fell on both sides of the argument. I'm happy to acknowledge that most people agree with you that Gasol is overpaid. I'm also happy to acknowledge that several people don't think he has negative trade value. For myself, I'll take that as a small victory, since going in I was taking the contrarian view -- it doesn't take a genius to know that 95% of Wolves fans are against a Gasol trade.

[Esohny]

Whose "idea" was that Shrink? Mine or yours? The only child involved here is you. Never refusing to even see a middle ground (as recognized by Hartford). Always twisting peoples positions to make you look right. Always returning to gloat when you think you're right. Always needing the last word.

And he doesn't replace the TP. See below:

[shrink]

I didn't twist anything.

I wrote a discrete challenge. -- I did not say "maybe some of these words don't mean what they say"

You accepted it. -- you wrote that in this very thread.

And you posted it on the trade board --

If you truly believe that, I challenge you to post your contention on the trade board with the title: "Gasol is well worth his contract." Make any case you want in the body.

I don't think you'll be able to "pick and choose" even 10% of neutral posters that agree with you.

Will you bet your trade board credibility by making that post?

Accepted.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1218330

Unless someone stole your account here, you're responsible for your own actions - don't blame me.

[Krapinsky]

Whose "idea" was that Shrink? Mine or yours? The only child involved here is you. Never refusing to even see a middle ground (as recognized by Hartford). Always twisting peoples positions to make you look right. Always returning to gloat when you think you're right. Always needing the last word.

And he doesn't replace the TP. See below:

Maybe I went a little overboard, but the guy gets insulting always belittling people by comparing their posts to what he teaches his children.

[Krapinsky]

I accepted posting my position on the trade board. I didn't accept your position, and then accept to put it on the trade board. My trade board post makes my position pretty clear. I'm not sure how there's room to even dispute that.

AND NOW... OK.... before a Mod has to get in here and lock it.... I'm done with this discussion. I'm dropping it.

Let's get back on topic, shall we?

[shrink]

Moreover K, are we supposed to believe you weren't talking about him being overpaid - you were talking about trade value - when you chose this title for the thread?

"All things considered is Gasol overpaid? By how much?"

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1218330

[Esohny]

Whose "idea" was that Shrink? Mine or yours? The only child involved here is you. Never refusing to even see a middle ground (as recognized by Hartford). Always twisting peoples positions to make you look right. Always returning to gloat when you think you're right. Always needing the last word.

And he doesn't replace the TP. See below:

Maybe I went a little overboard, but the guy gets insulting always belittling people by comparing their posts to what he teaches his children.

Oh, I don't think you went that far overboard, I just happen to think that leaving somebody, let alone a woman, without the means for wiping is both unsanitary and disgraceful.

[Krapinsky]

Moreover K, are we supposed to believe you weren't talking about him being overpaid - you were talking about trade value - when you chose this title for the thread?

"All things considered is Gasol overpaid? By how much?"

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1218330

Sorry Shrink, you only get so many characters in the title. I already told you above, i don't differentiate the two -- overpaid and net positive value, like the other posters did.

See the bottom:

Considering the aforementioned...

1) is Pau overpaid? If so, by how much?
2) being that he's paid what he is, would you still trade a positive asset in a trade for him (late first etc.)?

[LordBaldric]

Who cares about the semantics? The point is that you Krapinsky think Pau is worth more than just about everybody else on the planet does.

[Krapinsky]

Who cares about the semantics? The point is that you Krapinsky think Pau is worth more than just about everybody else on the planet does.

Probably true. At least, everyone else on the planet besides Laker fans. I've been watching Pau for a few years now, and I have to say, I love his game. He's one of my favorite players. I think he gets a bad rap in the major media because he's always been the fall guy for the Lakers. In contrast, according to Lakers fans Kobe has never made a mistake ever. Apparently the guy's krap smells like roses.

[jfg]

I'm not against bringing Gasol in, I just don't see how it gets done. There's way too much salary coming and going and the Lakers don't need Pek so you'd have to get a 3rd party involved who has something to give the Lakers while taking on players like Ridnour, Barea and Williams. The Wolves don't have enticing expiring contracts, and they don't have lottery picks to offer. It's too bad we signed Roy for 2 years instead of 1 because that would give us some more options.

[Krapinsky]

I'm not against bringing Gasol in, I just don't see how it gets done. There's way too much salary coming and going and the Lakers don't need Pek so you'd have to get a 3rd party involved who has something to give the Lakers while taking on players like Ridnour, Barea and Williams. The Wolves don't have enticing expiring contracts, and they don't have lottery picks to offer. It's too bad we signed Roy for 2 years instead of 1 because that would give us some more options.

Roy's second year is a team option.