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Re: Rumors for a Pau trade in spanish newspaper
Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 11:57 pm
by Saltine
Yep, like when we sent Beasley to the Lakers last season, and the Ridnour to Portland trade, or when we moved Rubio to the Knicks so he'd finally come to the US to play ball...
Though without the NY/LA media bias ESPN would have nothing to post about basketball beyond LeBron.
Re: Rumors for a Pau trade in spanish newspaper
Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 6:31 pm
by shrink
shrink wrote: The reason a Pau Gasol trade seems so unlikely is that the team would struggle to add enough negative value to a trade to make that salary equal for two years to Pau's expected value. Sure, he may return to form - but I think even the most fervent Laker fan would admit that there is significant risk that he does not, and with one of the most expensive contracts in the NBA, that's a huge huge gamble. Normal, cost-conscious teams like the Wolves can't drop $20 mil on one, under-performing player, and hope they have much chance that the rest of the payroll can still win.
One answer may be putting another piece into the trade that has a decent amount of negative trade value for year 2. The problem is that no one on the Wolves roster right now fits that description. Roy's contract ends, Ridnour and Barea have contracts that aren't really out of sync for good back-up PG's, Williams still carries positive value on the hope he makes good. Money has value, so adding the trade difference (less than $5 mil) is just making the deal worse for the Wolves.
Let me give an example. Suppose MIN went to OKC and said, what would you give us to get out from under Perkins contract? Expiring Roy and Barea for Perkins 3-year deal - would that get us Jeremy Lamb? OKC say, "Yeah - we need to move that deal, but we need a center coming back. If it was Pek and Barea, would you consider it if we added Perry Jones?" In this example, MIN may like the price, but not want to hold onto Perkins. In that case, it might make sense talking to LAL.
Now I'm not specifically advocating a deal with OKC, but I think the format is the only way to do a Gasol trade. We need to split a good asset into a very good one and a bad one (2-year overpaid but productive?), and then include the bad one in a package we'd send for Gasol.
Any ideas?
Re: Rumors for a Pau trade in spanish newspaper
Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 6:51 pm
by shrink
Maybe Ridnour for Beasley and a Top 12 protected pick?
PHX wants to move Beasley on his new $5.75/$6.0/$6.25 pg deal, and it sounds like they'd take a non-productive expiring and eat salary this year just to be rid of him. Ridnour may be a good fit, since he's productive for both years, he saves Sarver $1.75 mil this year, and their current back-up PG is Telfair.
We get Beasley, but include him in a package for Gasol - pocketing that pick? He's has negative trade value, but the Lakers were interested in him last year at the trade deadline.
I could use more names of semi-productive, overpriced players on contracts in the $5-10 mil range.
Re: Rumors for a Pau trade in spanish newspaper
Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 9:00 pm
by eyeteeth
shrink wrote:
I could use more names of semi-productive, overpriced players on contracts in the $5-10 mil range.
The only place I want to read those names are in other teams' tales of woe.
Re: Rumors for a Pau trade in spanish newspaper
Posted: Fri Jan 4, 2013 2:02 am
by Klomp
As long as Pau Gasol is a Laker, trade rumors will percolate, and as they do, they will always include the Wolves.
The fact is Kahn and Adelman love the thought of Gasol in their offense. Adelman's recipe for success in Sacramento was due in large part to Chris Webber and Vlade Divac. The Wolves look at Love and Gasol as comparable to that duo.
Gasol is an excellent passer. Adelman loves big men who excel at that. A team source said Taylor is willing to go over the luxury tax for the 2013-14 season if the right deal presents itself. With a salary of nearly $20 million next year, Gasol fits that mold.
http://www.1500espn.com/sportswire/The_ ... ades010313
Re: Rumors for a Pau trade in spanish newspaper
Posted: Fri Jan 4, 2013 2:59 am
by AQuintus
I can't imagine it happening at this point. With the way that Pau has been playing plus his age and injuries, there's just no way to make the contracts work without giving up a player more valuable than Pau is.
Re: Rumors for a Pau trade in spanish newspaper
Posted: Fri Jan 4, 2013 5:30 am
by RKL
Klomp wrote:As long as Pau Gasol is a Laker, trade rumors will percolate, and as they do, they will always include the Wolves.
The fact is Kahn and Adelman love the thought of Gasol in their offense. Adelman's recipe for success in Sacramento was due in large part to Chris Webber and Vlade Divac. The Wolves look at Love and Gasol as comparable to that duo.
Gasol is an excellent passer. Adelman loves big men who excel at that. A team source said Taylor is willing to go over the luxury tax for the 2013-14 season if the right deal presents itself. With a salary of nearly $20 million next year, Gasol fits that mold.
http://www.1500espn.com/sportswire/The_ ... ades010313
• MIN — Morris/Ebanks/Hill/Gasol
LAL — Barea(or Ridnour)/Kirleinko/Williams(or Cunningham)/Pekovic
• MIN — Morris/Hill/Gasol
LAL — Barea(or Ridnour)/Love
OR a 3-way trade..
LAL — Ridnour/Pavlovic/Aldridge
MIN — Morris/Meeks/Hill/Gasol
POR — Barea/Love
Re: Rumors for a Pau trade in spanish newspaper
Posted: Fri Jan 4, 2013 5:47 am
by IShotTheMaid
RKL wrote:Klomp wrote:As long as Pau Gasol is a Laker, trade rumors will percolate, and as they do, they will always include the Wolves.
The fact is Kahn and Adelman love the thought of Gasol in their offense. Adelman's recipe for success in Sacramento was due in large part to Chris Webber and Vlade Divac. The Wolves look at Love and Gasol as comparable to that duo.
Gasol is an excellent passer. Adelman loves big men who excel at that. A team source said Taylor is willing to go over the luxury tax for the 2013-14 season if the right deal presents itself. With a salary of nearly $20 million next year, Gasol fits that mold.
http://www.1500espn.com/sportswire/The_ ... ades010313
• MIN — Morris/Ebanks/Hill/Gasol
LAL — Barea(or Ridnour)/Kirleinko/Williams(or Cunningham)/Pekovic
• MIN — Morris/Hill/Gasol
LAL — Barea(or Ridnour)/Love
OR a 3-way trade..
LAL — Ridnour/Pavlovic/Aldridge
MIN — Morris/Meeks/Hill/Gasol
POR — Barea/Love
Go back to the lakers forum with that garbage and never come back.
Re: Rumors for a Pau trade in spanish newspaper
Posted: Fri Jan 4, 2013 6:27 am
by RKL
What's wrong with —
Morris (defensive PG that'll back up Rubio/Shved @ less than 1M)
Meeks (a SG that MIN needs because of Roy @ 1M/2yrs.)
Hill (plays PF/C, which MIN tried to sign this past offseason who gives you 10/10 @ 3.5/3yrs.)
Gasol (another PF/C who would be paired with Rubio, Adelman likes, gets you at least 10/10 & on a expiring in which you re-sign him next offseason to no more than 15M, if that, & go after another piece for your roster.)
?
Re: Rumors for a Pau trade in spanish newspaper
Posted: Fri Jan 4, 2013 6:42 am
by AQuintus
RKL wrote:What's wrong with —
Morris (defensive PG that'll back up Rubio/Shved @ less than 1M)
Meeks (a SG that MIN needs because of Roy @ 1M/2yrs.)
Hill (plays PF/C, which MIN tried to sign this past offseason who gives you 10/10 @ 3.5/3yrs.)
Gasol (another PF/C who would be paired with Rubio, Adelman likes, gets you at least 10/10 & on a expiring in which you re-sign him next offseason to no more than 15M, if that, & go after another piece for your roster.)
?
The problem is that every player that Minnesota is sending out is more valuable than any player coming back to Minnesota.
Pekovic and Kirilenko especially are far more valuable than anyone coming back.
Re: Rumors for a Pau trade in spanish newspaper
Posted: Fri Jan 4, 2013 7:08 am
by RKL
AQuintus wrote:RKL wrote:What's wrong with —
Morris (defensive PG that'll back up Rubio/Shved @ less than 1M)
Meeks (a SG that MIN needs because of Roy @ 1M/2yrs.)
Hill (plays PF/C, which MIN tried to sign this past offseason who gives you 10/10 @ 3.5/3yrs.)
Gasol (another PF/C who would be paired with Rubio, Adelman likes, gets you at least 10/10 & on a expiring in which you re-sign him next offseason to no more than 15M, if that, & go after another piece for your roster.)
?
The problem is that every player that Minnesota is sending out is more valuable than any player coming back to Minnesota.
Pekovic and Kirilenko especially are far more valuable than anyone coming back.
Then swap Pekovic for Cunningham for that deal.
So Gasol/Hill for Love is robbery? That's your 20/20 Love stat line right there. Since you'd still have Pekovic, MIN could also package him (or Hill) with someone else for an even better shooting guard or another piece & 2 players to fill positions in Morris/Meeks at less than 2M/2yrs. > Barea/Ridnour taking Rubio/Shved's minutes at over 4M/2-4yrs. while providing little defense.
Re: Rumors for a Pau trade in spanish newspaper
Posted: Fri Jan 4, 2013 7:57 am
by AQuintus
RKL wrote:
Then swap Pekovic for Cunningham for that deal.
Kirilenko, Williams, and Barea or Ridnour is still >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pau and the Lakers' crap role-players.
So Gasol/Hill for Love is robbery?
Obviously.
Re: Rumors for a Pau trade in spanish newspaper
Posted: Fri Jan 4, 2013 8:09 am
by RKL
AQuintus wrote:RKL wrote:
Then swap Pekovic for Cunningham for that deal.
Kirilenko, Williams, and Barea or Ridnour is still >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pau and the Lakers' crap role-players.
So Gasol/Hill for Love is robbery?
Obviously.
Williams/Barea/Ridnour are role players though. I explained how the players the Lakers have are able to help MIN & contribute but I guess you skipped that part.
For all the things looming with Love & the uncertainty down the road in 2yrs., you're exaggerating a little.
Re: Rumors for a Pau trade in spanish newspaper
Posted: Fri Jan 4, 2013 10:35 am
by AQuintus
RKL wrote: Williams/Barea/Ridnour are role players though.
Yes, and they're significantly better than the crappy role players that are being sent to Minnesota. Also, Williams isn't a role player. He was the #2 overall pick a year and a half ago. He's a prospect that still has plenty of potential.
I explained how the players the Lakers have are able to help MIN & contribute but I guess you skipped that part.
No you haven't. You explained what position they play, that's all. You haven't explained how a handful of players that are absolutely awful on the most bench-starved team in the league would possibly make up for the loss of 3 quality starters (Love, Kirilenko, and Pekovic), a quality backup (Barea or Ridnour), and a mid-high level prospect. And you won't, because you can't.
For all the things looming with Love & the uncertainty down the road in 2yrs., you're exaggerating a little.
Key words here are "2 yrs." If things are still a mess in "2 yrs," then you can bring your crappy offers here, but not until then. Also, even if Love was about to walk away from nothing, Gasol, an old, broken down player making waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much money is still a ridiculous offer, and that's not even including the Pekovic, Williams, Kirilenko, and a quality backup PG for the Lakers' trash heap they call backups.
Re: Rumors for a Pau trade in spanish newspaper
Posted: Fri Jan 4, 2013 10:59 am
by shrink
RKL wrote: So Gasol/Hill for Love is robbery?
Yes. On a neutral trade board, it was universally ridiculed until the thread was locked.
Even Laker fans agreed that ...
Kobe System wrote:Doormatt wrote:these are the kind of threads that make people hate laker fans btw.
http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1223792
Re: Rumors for a Pau trade in spanish newspaper
Posted: Fri Jan 4, 2013 2:43 pm
by C.lupus
I blame Klomp for posting that Wolfson quote. Ultimate Troll Mod indeed.
Re: Rumors for a Pau trade in spanish newspaper
Posted: Sat Jan 5, 2013 8:55 am
by Klomp
Re: Rumors for a Pau trade in spanish newspaper
Posted: Sat Jan 5, 2013 8:57 am
by Klomp
Re: Rumors for a Pau trade in spanish newspaper
Posted: Sat Jan 5, 2013 2:12 pm
by shrink
If there is ever a Gasol trade, and I hope there is not, it will be one with a third team. MIN simply doesn't have the negative value on the team to equate to the amount that Pau is overpaid, at $40 mil through 2014. What would Gasol get in free agency at this point? I can't imagine he'd get more than $11 per year, from some desperate team - meaning he needs $9 mil per year in valueless stuff back. Or more precisely, the package shouldn't be
Let's start with a package from the poll I mentioned in the poll that everyone hated:
http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=1222611Williams + Roy (expiring/negative) + Ridnour or Barea + maybe Steimsma
2012-13
productive part of Gasol's salary $11 =< Williams + Barea + $2 mil cap space
zero production part of Gasol overpaid $4 = Roy
zero production part of Gasol overpaid $5 mil << cap space (pay nothing) or Steimsma ($1 mil over?)
2013-14
productive part of Gasol's salary $11 =< Williams + Barea + $2 mil cap space
zero production part of Gasol overpaid $9 mil << cap space (pay nothing)
.. but a third team will be involved, that will turn one of our assets into a negative (probably overpaid vet) and a positive (like a pick). LAL gets the overpaid vet (no more than two years), and we get the positive perk to trade later. That third team may be one that wants to get young(and likes Derrick Williams), needs a solution at back-up PG (several), or needs to clear some cap space, and can use the expiring more than lux-strained LAL (turning a two-year deal into an expiring).
A good place to start is to look for other teams' vets with two-year deals that are a little overpaid. If they could fit better with Dantoni, that'd be a big help. I'm sure LAL would love Kirilenko in a deal, but he's too valuable here, and well worth the $10 mil we pay him.
Re: Rumors for a Pau trade in spanish newspaper
Posted: Sat Jan 5, 2013 2:20 pm
by Dewey
