Oh boy, here we go again... (Woj story on Love)

[FinnTheHuman]

What points? All pro-Kahn retoric on this board can be boiled down to one sentence:

"Yeah, I agree that he's a horrible drafter/talent evaluator, but <insert your BS excuse>"

I mean it's pretty clear, why this is not a viable argument. Talent evaluation, i.e. the ability to tell good players from bad players is crucial for a GM. It doesn't matter what else he does well. It doesn't matter if he's a good negotiator or a financial wizard. If you're in a business of evaluating players and suck at it, then you shouldn't be in it. Period.

yes, we've heard it all before. kahn hasn't done a single thing right in his life. if the anti christ exists, he's definitely it.

Yeah, let's not acknowledge anything I said.

Let's not make counter points (cause we don't have any).

Let's go straight to "You have a vendetta against Kahn" defense.

And that's why this is not a discussion.

Blind homerism and stubbornness.

General manager is a lot more than rookie talent evaluator. That's why the position is called general manager. And that's why your arguments don't stand. I'm not saying Kahn is good, but he's not nearly as bad as you make him look.

[eyeteeth]

It's pretty annoying seeing all this Love hate, it's gotten to a point where I don't even think I can read the board anymore.

I think most posters are generally annoyed at his continued antics and the timing of his latest "controversy."

He, in effect, questions the abilities of his teammates when calling into question whether or not the Front Office has a plan. In reality the team is 6-5 w/ him & 5-4 w/out him. Not a huge difference and we haven't had Rubio play a single minute yet. It is frustrating to hear a guy sign for over $12 million a year then whine about it basically the first month of the next season, especially when the team is much improved and looking to be better once Rubio returned. I get that he wants to win but there are better ways than to publicly throw the entire team under the bus then follow up the outburst with a 3-17 & 4-18 shooting nights while other players like Kirilenko & Pekovic, both seemingly unselfish guys, step up. Makes me appreciate guys like Duncan, Durant, Nash, Aldridge that much more.

Dan Barreiro ‏@DanBarreiroKFAN

@JimPeteHoops nailed it last night: KLove's body language right now (even before latest injury) is terrible. And I'm no KLove basher
Retweeted by Jim Petersen

Yeah, the more I think about it, the more this sucks. I mean, it's clear the dude is pretty unhappy. I just hope things can come around so that everybody gets on the happy train again. KLove needs to get his shot back, and if he's in a funk, that gets harder. He does seem like he's externalizing some of the problem, blaming others and such. That's a pile of BS. He needs to get his head right and buckle down and work. Life is frustrating sometimes, even for superstars. It doesn't have to be anybody's fault, but if Love starts blaming other people, it becomes more his fault for being a baby about it.

This would be a good time for Adelman to take him aside and have a sit down. It's part of his job to keep this **** from getting out of control.

[Worm Guts]

I think Love's criticism of teammates was more directed at previous seasons than this season.

I also think Love may realize he screwed up. His current unhappiness may be directed at himself.

[shrink]

Dan Barreiro ‏@DanBarreiroKFAN
@JimPeteHoops nailed it last night: KLove's body language right now (even before latest injury) is terrible. And I'm no KLove basher
Retweeted by Jim Petersen

Am I reading it right, that Dan Barriero says he's no KLove basher?

There is no wolves player, coach, front office personnel, owner, trainer, ballboy, mascot, or fan that Downer Dan hasn't bashed.

[Tirion]

yes, we've heard it all before. kahn hasn't done a single thing right in his life. if the anti christ exists, he's definitely it.

Yeah, let's not acknowledge anything I said.

Let's not make counter points (cause we don't have any).

Let's go straight to "You have a vendetta against Kahn" defense.

And that's why this is not a discussion.

Blind homerism and stubbornness.

General manager is a lot more than rookie talent evaluator. That's why the position is called general manager. And that's why your arguments don't stand. I'm not saying Kahn is good, but he's not nearly as bad as you make him look.

You realize that you are grasping at straws by dismissing the drafting, cause drafting is pretty much the only reliable talent source for a small market team?

But hey, let's play by your rules.

How do you explain the Beasley experiment then?

The infatuation with Darko?

Pavlovic signing? Hollins signing? The constant churning of horrible players before Adelman came on board? Tucker, Wilkins, Pecherov, Jawai, Telfair, etc? I bet you forgot some of this names already.

It's pretty obvious at this point that he can't recognize good players.

And again, you don't want to talk about drafting, but drafting is how you build a team if you can't attract free agents. You can't draft, you're done.

[Tirion]

I know you’re sayin, “Lupe rappin’ ‘bout the same ****”
Well, that’s ‘cause ain’t **** changed, bitch
And please don’t excuse my language
Cause I would hate for you to misrepresent
The true expression of my anguish
And by this far I ain’t shocked, upset, or appalled
I’m ashamed, bitch

[[RCG]]

I know you’re sayin, “Lupe rappin’ ‘bout the same ****”
Well, that’s ‘cause ain’t **** changed, bitch
And please don’t excuse my language
Cause I would hate for you to misrepresent
The true expression of my anguish
And by this far I ain’t shocked, upset, or appalled
I’m ashamed, bitch

[AQuintus]

How do you explain the Beasley experiment then?

A former 2nd overall pick for a 2nd rounder? I don't see the problem here. It was obviously a longshot chance to turn another team's young, talented trash into our franchise player treasure - just like the Pacers did with Jermaine O'Neal back when Kahn was working there.

The infatuation with Darko?

What infatuation? He obviously appreciated Darko's talent (and Darko does have a tremendous amount of natural talent), but once it became obvious Darko didn't have a future here, he was gone. Also, bringing Darko in only cost us Brewer, who also didn't have a future here.

Pavlovic signing?

A Rambis guy.

Hollins signing?

A young, freakishly athletic 7 footer who, like the rest of those guys, cost us very little in the way of assets.

The constant churning of horrible players before Adelman came on board? Tucker, Wilkins, Pecherov, Jawai, Telfair, etc? I bet you forgot some of this names already.

Most of those guys were filler in salary dumping moves. If you put a microscope on any team's roster moves, you'll find similar players.

[Tekkenlaw]

I can't really take anyone seriously who still calls Kahn a bad GM when looking at the current Wolves roster.

[Tirion]

How do you explain the Beasley experiment then?

A former 2nd overall pick for a 2nd rounder? I don't see the problem here. It was obviously a longshot chance to turn another team's young, talented trash into our franchise player treasure - just like the Pacers did with Jermaine O'Neal back when Kahn was working there.

You don't see a problem with investing resources and playing time for two years into a net negative player?
Maybe you should look harder.

The infatuation with Darko?

What infatuation? He obviously appreciated Darko's talent (and Darko does have a tremendous amount of natural talent), but once it became obvious Darko didn't have a future here, he was gone. Also, bringing Darko in only cost us Brewer, who also didn't have a future here.

Are you **** kidding? He gave Darko four-year, $20 million contract. They had to use their amnesty clause on him. That's a failure with a capital F.

Pavlovic signing?

A Rambis guy.

Sessions signing? Ah, you're going say that Rambis **** that up. But I thought he only signed players Rambis told him to get.

Hollins signing?

A young, freakishly athletic 7 footer who, like the rest of those guys, cost us very little in the way of assets

So it's okay to waste assets as long as you don't waste them all at once?

The constant churning of horrible players before Adelman came on board? Tucker, Wilkins, Pecherov, Jawai, Telfair, etc? I bet you forgot some of this names already.

Most of those guys were filler in salary dumping moves. If you put a microscope on any team's roster moves, you'll find similar players.

All this players got PT. All this players contributed to 5 seasons of progressive losing Kahn has under his belt. His tenure here is marred with historically bad performances. Last in the Western Conference for 2 years straight. 15-67. 17-65. All this losing... For what? Better draft picks? He botched them all.

Let me quote a poster from CH:

To sum up: Across 3 consecutive drafts, Kahn had, as I make it out, 8 picks before swapping them around. He came out of these 3 drafts having picked players who accumulated 14 player-seasons (or, essentially a full roster for one season. This roster of 14 players had a combined payroll of $45.5 million dollars (basketball reference) and produced less than 8.5 wins (NBA Geek).

As a comparison, Mike Miller, whose trade set the stage for Kahn’s grand legacy by making Rubio available, produced over 14 wins during that same time period. Curry, who was passed over, produced 19. Lawson, who was dealt (more or less) for Webster: 22. Budinger alone (as a 2nd round pick) produced more wins than all our first round picks combined while playing for Houston, and we gave up another first rounder to get him for one year (well a couple months now).

And Kahn deserves anything but contempt and derision? How?

[Tirion]

I can't really take anyone seriously who still calls Kahn a bad GM when looking at the current Wolves roster.

I see you don't follow this team very close.

Read this article, then come back to me:

http://www.minnpost.com/sports/2012/10/ ... ont-office

[Tirion]

All this players got PT. All this players contributed to 5 seasons of progressive losing Kahn has under his belt. His tenure here is marred with historically bad performances. Last in the Western Conference for 2 years straight. 15-67. 17-65. All this losing... For what? Better draft picks? He botched them all.

And this point is why I'm 100% behind Love in his criticisms of Kahn, even when other fans are willing to forgive and forget after David undeservingly stumbled his way into a 50+ wins roster. This all could've been done faster, smarter and without wasting so much assets along the way. The losing seasons happened. They will forever be on Love's resume, through no fault of his. So when Glen Taylor quips that "a real superstar gets his team to playoffs" I can completely understand Love flipping out and saying "look, you surrounded me with trash for all my time here and the only thing you have to show for it is Derrick Williams, eat **** and die".

[jade_hippo]

All this players got PT. All this players contributed to 5 seasons of progressive losing Kahn has under his belt. His tenure here is marred with historically bad performances. Last in the Western Conference for 2 years straight. 15-67. 17-65. All this losing... For what? Better draft picks? He botched them all.

And this point is why I'm 100% behind Love in his criticisms of Kahn, even when other fans are willing to forgive and forget after David undeservingly stumbled his way into a 50+ wins roster. This all could've been done faster, smarter and without wasting so much assets along the way. The losing seasons happened. They will forever be on Love's resume, through no fault of his. So when Glen Taylor quips that "a real superstar gets his team to playoffs" I can completely understand Love flipping out and saying "look, you surrounded me with trash for all my time here and the only thing you have to show for it is Derrick Williams, eat **** and die".

I totally understand that, but now probably wasn't the best time to whine about that, there is a good team around him right now, a good team that is treading water with him out/sucking/still hurt. If he wants out, says so, don't pussyfoot around this, or shut up about previous seasons and embrace this one.

[Foye]

As a comparison, Mike Miller, whose trade set the stage for Kahn’s grand legacy by making Rubio available, produced over 14 wins during that same time period. Curry, who was passed over, produced 19. Lawson, who was dealt (more or less) for Webster: 22. Budinger alone (as a 2nd round pick) produced more wins than all our first round picks combined while playing for Houston, and we gave up another first rounder to get him for one year (well a couple months now).

And Kahn deserves anything but contempt and derision? How?

And this is how you know all of this is complete bullsh*t. I need to see a stat on the losses Mike Miller produced in those years by refusing to shoot open 3's to keep his high fg/3pt%.

I agree that David Kahn is a pretty bad gm but these Shved and Ak47 moves were pure gold. Not sure whether those are his moves or Rick Adelman wanting them in his system.

[Tekkenlaw]

I can't really take anyone seriously who still calls Kahn a bad GM when looking at the current Wolves roster.

I see you don't follow this team very close.

Read this article, then come back to me:

http://www.minnpost.com/sports/2012/10/ ... ont-office

Aww I disagreed with you, lets get testy and defensive about it.

[Dewey]

timing is everything ... there isn't an argument here that is relevant because fact is - KLove crossed the line in a very dramatic way - publically. It is truly a shameful act for a player to take these frustrations to the media. It's a bad situation and I think this cut far deeper than most might want to admit ... if "anyone" (fan, player, owner, etc) wants to bash Kahn and/or Taylor thats perfectly fine, but sadly, KLove has taken his own credibility to a new low all by himself.

This a baaaaaad situation. Those debating the decisions and performance of Taylor and Kahn have clearly missed the point here and become oblivious to the issues we now have ahead - because lovey dovey could not deal internally..

[Mattya]

He definitely alienated a lot of fans. It is going to be really tough for people to forget it.

[LordBaldric]

I can't really take anyone seriously who still calls Kahn a bad GM when looking at the current Wolves roster.

I can't take you seriously after that statement.

[Saltine]

I won't forget it. He's a petulant little narcissist. He only got the 4 year max instead of 5, poor little baby. Hopefully he'll grow up and stop living in the past, he may be our best player, but Rubio is the soul of this team, not Kevin.

He's lucky a numbers man is in charge, I'd already be trading him to a bottom dweller. F you too Kev, Okafur, Crawford and a couple unprotected firsts, done deal, have fun in Washington

[FinnTheHuman]

If we can't get a elite stretch PF in a trade for him, everybody will just have to forgive him. There are a lot of elite strech PFs in the league, tho.