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Oh boy, here we go again... (Woj story on Love)

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Post#346 Re: Oh boy, here we go again... (Woj story on
Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:02 am by cpfsf

Esohny wrote:
cpfsf wrote:yes, we've heard it all before. kahn hasn't done a single thing right in his life. if the anti christ exists, he's definitely it.


Well, that seems awfully unlikely. The Anti-Christ is actually supposed to succeed with his plans of enthralling the world and uniting it under a One World Government, as opposed to failing at everything.


are you implying that we should castrate him bieber style?
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Post#347 Re: Oh boy, here we go again... (Woj story on
Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:47 pm by C.lupus

I wanted to pull this part of Mattya's post in the Wolves In The News thread over here.

Mattya wrote:http://www.1500espn.com/sportswire/The_Scoops_Wolves_may_be_interested_as_Cavs_shop_Anderson_Varejao121412


On the Love situation

A league source was quick to remind me of a statement Kahn made at a breakfast with reporters in June 2009: "On a championship-contending team... Kevin (Love) might be the fourth-best player."

The source's informed theory is that statement, combined with seeing good friends Russell Westbrook and Derrick Rose get five-year extensions, continues to have Love irked. It's definitely not the money.


A front office executive spelled out how Love will benefit financially in the future: "The reality is that while the difference in guaranteed money between the four-year max deal that Love received and the five-year designated player max that Westbrook received is $17,769,374. (Rose was named MVP, so he was able to take advantage of the designated player max where his first year salary is 30% of the salary cap).

"If Kevin does not exercise his option after the 2014-2015 season, he can become an unrestricted free agent and either re-sign with the Timberwolves for five years or another team for four and receive a salary which starts at 30% of the salary cap. Consequently, Kevin may end up getting more money that Russell over the same period."

As for whether Love will sign an extension before the summer of 2015, the source said, "Kevin could sign an extension prior to declining his option for the 2015-16 season. That extension would be for three years and he could not get any additional money in '15-'16 unless the Wolves were under the cap, which they won't be.

"I don't consider Kevin signing an extension a likely scenario -- see Atlanta's Josh Smith. The extension can only be for four years, including the current years of the contract. If he waits until the end of the '14-'15 season and becomes a free agent, he can re-sign with the Timberwolves for five years (likely for $100 million-plus) or another team for four years. Most players at that stage of their career are prepared to wait and sign for five, or four years."


The bolded statement is baffling to me. I see it over and over and it must be true. What I don't get is why Love would take such offense at that. In 2009, Love probably was a fourth best player on a championship team, maybe third. He has since improved his game and his physique annually and that is no longer the case. I just don't get hanging on to a statement well after all the mitigating variables have changed. Kevin needs to get over that.
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Post#348 Re: Oh boy, here we go again... (Woj story on
Fri Dec 14, 2012 1:00 pm by Krapinsky

C.lupus wrote:
The bolded statement is baffling to me. I see it over and over and it must be true. What I don't get is why Love would take such offense at that. In 2009, Love probably was a fourth best player on a championship team, maybe third. He has since improved his game and his physique annually and that is no longer the case. I just don't get hanging on to a statement well after all the mitigating variables have changed. Kevin needs to get over that.


Agreed. I think at the time he said it, just about everyone in the room likely nodded in agreement. Kahn was essentially telling season ticket holders exactly what they wanted to hear -- that he knew he had a lot of work to do to bring in talent to build a contender. i don't see what the problem is here.
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Post#349 Re: Oh boy, here we go again... (Woj story on
Fri Dec 14, 2012 1:07 pm by Worm Guts

He didn't say it, but I think the impression was that Kahn meant the best Love would ever be is the 4th best player on a championship team. And even though it was fair to agree with that at the time, it's not something your GM should say.
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Post#350 Re: Oh boy, here we go again... (Woj story on
Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:36 pm by cpfsf

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/news?slug=jn-love021908

After Kevin’s freshman season Stan Love began expressing displeasure over the lack of playing time given to his older brother, Collin, who was a junior. He threatened to have Kevin transfer to another high school if Shoff wasn’t terminated. He also posted “Fire Shoff” stickers in the foyer of the gymnasium.

In the end, Shoff retained his job, Stan apologized and the two formed a friendship that continues today. During an interview last week, Kevin credited Shoff for much of his success.

“Stan just said, ‘Hey, I’m sorry. I was over the top,’” Shoff said. “It was over after that. I think Stan has taken some hits from it, which shouldn’t be the case. He apologized. That was enough.”


It also helped that Kevin was blessed with uncanny strength, some of which he achieved by doing finger-tip push-ups.


:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Post#351 Re: Oh boy, here we go again... (Woj story on
Fri Dec 14, 2012 9:10 pm by Tirion

cpfsf wrote:
Tirion wrote:
Basti wrote:And do you even try to be reasonable in your disdain for Kahn? Your hate for Kahn is unreasonably strong. Way to nitpick the points people have made in this thread.


What points? All pro-Kahn retoric on this board can be boiled down to one sentence:

"Yeah, I agree that he's a horrible drafter/talent evaluator, but <insert your BS excuse>"

I mean it's pretty clear, why this is not a viable argument. Talent evaluation, i.e. the ability to tell good players from bad players is crucial for a GM. It doesn't matter what else he does well. It doesn't matter if he's a good negotiator or a financial wizard. If you're in a business of evaluating players and suck at it, then you shouldn't be in it. Period.


yes, we've heard it all before. kahn hasn't done a single thing right in his life. if the anti christ exists, he's definitely it.


Yeah, let's not acknowledge anything I said.

Let's not make counter points (cause we don't have any).

Let's go straight to "You have a vendetta against Kahn" defense.

And that's why this is not a discussion.

Blind homerism and stubbornness.
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Post#352 Re: Oh boy, here we go again... (Woj story on
Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:24 pm by LordBaldric

MJ was still bitching about being benched in high school during his HoF speech. IIRC he even gave a ticket to the guy who beat him out so he could be there in person. :lol:
By the power of the Dark Side, free Kevin Love!
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Post#353 Re: Oh boy, here we go again... (Woj story on
Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:39 pm by Vindicater

Tirion wrote:
Yeah, let's not acknowledge anything I said.

Let's not make counter points (cause we don't have any).

Let's go straight to "You have a vendetta against Kahn" defense.

And that's why this is not a discussion.

Blind homerism and stubbornness.


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Post#354 Re: Oh boy, here we go again... (Woj story on
Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:44 pm by theGreatRC

It's pretty annoying seeing all this Love hate, it's gotten to a point where I don't even think I can read the board anymore.
Wolves fan that wants Kevin Love to win a ring and Wiggins winning ROY

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Post#355 Re: Oh boy, here we go again... (Woj story on
Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:54 pm by bluethunder0005

theGreatRC wrote:It's pretty annoying seeing all this Love hate, it's gotten to a point where I don't even think I can read the board anymore.


It's not that we hate Love. It's the simple fact that an article just was released where he has bitched, moaned, and complained about the state of this team. Then on top of that has gone out there and played the two worst consecutive games he's had in the past 2 seasons immediately after said article was made public.

Love isn't a Kobe, Durant, LeBron, or a Paul caliber type player where he's a allowed to complain and not back it up. Maybe his hand is bothering him, maybe he actually regrets having only the negative things posted, or maybe he's trying so hard to back up his thoughts that he's forcing everything. I'm not sure what the issue is but you don't get to say the things he's said and blast the teammates the way he did and then go out there and play the way he has. No excuse for it and he's not above being criticized for playing worse than ass.
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Post#356 Re: Oh boy, here we go again... (Woj story on
Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:14 am by cpfsf

Tirion wrote:Yeah, let's not acknowledge anything I said.

Let's not make counter points (cause we don't have any).

Let's go straight to "You have a vendetta against Kahn" defense.

And that's why this is not a discussion.

Blind homerism and stubbornness.


Blind homerism and stubbornness? That’s interesting point of view considering that I’ve managed to criticize the GM and the team’s star player in the same thread. More specifically I agreed with another poster that getting a different GM can be beneficial. I also noted that on a few instances Love complained to refs instead of getting back on defense.
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Post#357 Re: Oh boy, here we go again... (Woj story on
Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:17 am by [RCG]

theGreatRC wrote:It's pretty annoying seeing all this Love hate, it's gotten to a point where I don't even think I can read the board anymore.


:(

I think most posters are generally annoyed at his continued antics and the timing of his latest "controversy."

He, in effect, questions the abilities of his teammates when calling into question whether or not the Front Office has a plan. In reality the team is 6-5 w/ him & 5-4 w/out him. Not a huge difference and we haven't had Rubio play a single minute yet. It is frustrating to hear a guy sign for over $12 million a year then whine about it basically the first month of the next season, especially when the team is much improved and looking to be better once Rubio returned. I get that he wants to win but there are better ways than to publicly throw the entire team under the bus then follow up the outburst with a 3-17 & 4-18 shooting nights while other players like Kirilenko & Pekovic, both seemingly unselfish guys, step up. Makes me appreciate guys like Duncan, Durant, Nash, Aldridge that much more.
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Post#358 Re: Oh boy, here we go again... (Woj story on
Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:57 am by cpfsf

NewWolves wrote:
cpfsf wrote:i almost made a proposal for a love/ak47/shved for artest/gasol swap. i didn't think they'd fall for it.


Really? I think that's an awful trade for us. Maybe if you take out AK or Shved.


my post was a joke. it wasn't a very good one.
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Post#359 Re: Oh boy, here we go again... (Woj story on
Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:11 am by [RCG]

cpfsf wrote:
NewWolves wrote:
cpfsf wrote:i almost made a proposal for a love/ak47/shved for artest/gasol swap. i didn't think they'd fall for it.


Really? I think that's an awful trade for us. Maybe if you take out AK or Shved.


my post was a joke. it wasn't a very good one.


:lol:
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Post#360 Re: Oh boy, here we go again... (Woj story on
Sat Dec 15, 2012 9:57 am by shrink

From reading Woj's posts, I think he's been unprofessional, regardless of how you feel about Kahn's tenure here.

I don't think the two points have to be mutually exclusive.
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Post#361 Re: Oh boy, here we go again... (Woj story on
Sat Dec 15, 2012 10:17 am by FinnTheHuman

Tirion wrote:
cpfsf wrote:
Tirion wrote:What points? All pro-Kahn retoric on this board can be boiled down to one sentence:

"Yeah, I agree that he's a horrible drafter/talent evaluator, but <insert your BS excuse>"

I mean it's pretty clear, why this is not a viable argument. Talent evaluation, i.e. the ability to tell good players from bad players is crucial for a GM. It doesn't matter what else he does well. It doesn't matter if he's a good negotiator or a financial wizard. If you're in a business of evaluating players and suck at it, then you shouldn't be in it. Period.


yes, we've heard it all before. kahn hasn't done a single thing right in his life. if the anti christ exists, he's definitely it.


Yeah, let's not acknowledge anything I said.

Let's not make counter points (cause we don't have any).

Let's go straight to "You have a vendetta against Kahn" defense.

And that's why this is not a discussion.

Blind homerism and stubbornness.


General manager is a lot more than rookie talent evaluator. That's why the position is called general manager. And that's why your arguments don't stand. I'm not saying Kahn is good, but he's not nearly as bad as you make him look.
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Post#362 Re: Oh boy, here we go again... (Woj story on
Sat Dec 15, 2012 11:41 am by eyeteeth

[RCG] wrote:
theGreatRC wrote:It's pretty annoying seeing all this Love hate, it's gotten to a point where I don't even think I can read the board anymore.


:(

I think most posters are generally annoyed at his continued antics and the timing of his latest "controversy."

He, in effect, questions the abilities of his teammates when calling into question whether or not the Front Office has a plan. In reality the team is 6-5 w/ him & 5-4 w/out him. Not a huge difference and we haven't had Rubio play a single minute yet. It is frustrating to hear a guy sign for over $12 million a year then whine about it basically the first month of the next season, especially when the team is much improved and looking to be better once Rubio returned. I get that he wants to win but there are better ways than to publicly throw the entire team under the bus then follow up the outburst with a 3-17 & 4-18 shooting nights while other players like Kirilenko & Pekovic, both seemingly unselfish guys, step up. Makes me appreciate guys like Duncan, Durant, Nash, Aldridge that much more.


Dan Barreiro ‏@DanBarreiroKFAN

@JimPeteHoops nailed it last night: KLove's body language right now (even before latest injury) is terrible. And I'm no KLove basher
Retweeted by Jim Petersen


Yeah, the more I think about it, the more this sucks. I mean, it's clear the dude is pretty unhappy. I just hope things can come around so that everybody gets on the happy train again. KLove needs to get his shot back, and if he's in a funk, that gets harder. He does seem like he's externalizing some of the problem, blaming others and such. That's a pile of BS. He needs to get his head right and buckle down and work. Life is frustrating sometimes, even for superstars. It doesn't have to be anybody's fault, but if Love starts blaming other people, it becomes more his fault for being a baby about it.

This would be a good time for Adelman to take him aside and have a sit down. It's part of his job to keep this **** from getting out of control.
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Post#363 Re: Oh boy, here we go again... (Woj story on
Sat Dec 15, 2012 11:57 am by Worm Guts

I think Love's criticism of teammates was more directed at previous seasons than this season.

I also think Love may realize he screwed up. His current unhappiness may be directed at himself.
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Post#364 Re: Oh boy, here we go again... (Woj story on
Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:20 pm by shrink

Dan Barreiro ‏@DanBarreiroKFAN
@JimPeteHoops nailed it last night: KLove's body language right now (even before latest injury) is terrible. And I'm no KLove basher
Retweeted by Jim Petersen


Am I reading it right, that Dan Barriero says he's no KLove basher?

There is no wolves player, coach, front office personnel, owner, trainer, ballboy, mascot, or fan that Downer Dan hasn't bashed.
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Post#365 Re: Oh boy, here we go again... (Woj story on
Sun Dec 16, 2012 12:31 am by Tirion

FinnTheHuman wrote:
Tirion wrote:
cpfsf wrote:
yes, we've heard it all before. kahn hasn't done a single thing right in his life. if the anti christ exists, he's definitely it.


Yeah, let's not acknowledge anything I said.

Let's not make counter points (cause we don't have any).

Let's go straight to "You have a vendetta against Kahn" defense.

And that's why this is not a discussion.

Blind homerism and stubbornness.


General manager is a lot more than rookie talent evaluator. That's why the position is called general manager. And that's why your arguments don't stand. I'm not saying Kahn is good, but he's not nearly as bad as you make him look.


You realize that you are grasping at straws by dismissing the drafting, cause drafting is pretty much the only reliable talent source for a small market team?

But hey, let's play by your rules.

How do you explain the Beasley experiment then?

The infatuation with Darko?

Pavlovic signing? Hollins signing? The constant churning of horrible players before Adelman came on board? Tucker, Wilkins, Pecherov, Jawai, Telfair, etc? I bet you forgot some of this names already.

It's pretty obvious at this point that he can't recognize good players.

And again, you don't want to talk about drafting, but drafting is how you build a team if you can't attract free agents. You can't draft, you're done.
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