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Jose Calderon wants out

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Post#16 Re: Jose Calderon wants out
Wed Dec 12, 2012 6:09 pm by element

Well, as a spaniard I appreciate Calderon, I've seen him play many times with the Raptors and the spanish national team, but he is essentially Luke with a better 3-point shot, not much of a difference.
If it makes sense from a cap salary perspective, then may be a good deal, but it won't be a huge upgrade. I've seen Calderon play many times in the NT, and he can also be a good pick and roll player, something he doesn't show much with the Raptors.
I wouldn't worry too much with the impact in the locker room and relationship with Ricky, Jose has been waiting for Ricky to take the starting spot in the NT for some time already, only injuries have delayed it. Jose is a great person and locker room guy,also great professional, and he also is the kind of person that will stay in a team if he feels comfortable in the environment, not putting money before all.
I hope it happens so I get to see two spaniards playing for the wolves every night, you essentially will have the best 2 spanish point guards. Now trade with the Rockets for Sergio Llull rights and you may have the three of them :lol:
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Post#17 Re: Jose Calderon wants out
Wed Dec 12, 2012 6:24 pm by atb1983

only he is essentially Luke with better 3-point shot ?
he is a play maker first, muchhhhh better court vision and pass,maybe a little bit worse 2pt shot I do think it would be a great upgrade for MIN (if he stays healthy).
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Post#18 Re: Jose Calderon wants out
Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:51 pm by southern wolf

I think it could come down to us or the Lakers if he does get traded. I like the idea of a Roy and Rid/Barea deal.
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Post#19 Re: Jose Calderon wants out
Sun Dec 16, 2012 5:19 pm by God Squad

Send us Dwill! Please lol
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Post#20 Re: Jose Calderon wants out
Sun Dec 16, 2012 6:36 pm by FinnTheHuman

I am not a fan of these small upgrades. Breaking good relations in the locker room, possibly good friendships for a small individial quality upgrade could possibly mean downgrade. Trade only if there's a big quality difference.
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Post#21 Re: Jose Calderon wants out
Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:35 pm by [RCG]

FinnTheHuman wrote:I am not a fan of these small upgrades. Breaking good relations in the locker room, possibly good friendships for a small individial quality upgrade could possibly mean downgrade. Trade only if there's a big quality difference.


The main point of the trade is the cap-space it opens up at the end of the season rather than a clear talent upgrade.

Roy's deal is now expiring but D.Will (4.8) Ridnour (4) Barea (4.3) all have contracts running past this year that could be cleared in order to pay Pekovic & Budinger. If I had my way we'd clear Ridnour for sure. Sign Budinger then match/re-sign Pek.

Rubio/Barea/Shved
Budinger/Shved/Lee
Kirilenko/Budinger/Cunningham
Love/Williams/Cunningham
Pekovic/Stiemsma
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Post#22 Re: Jose Calderon wants out
Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:58 pm by FinnTheHuman

Yes, I am sorry I wasn't clear on the cap space part of the story - if you ask me, this is the season in which we should not think about the next season at all. This is the season where we can do really big things, and that's why I wouldn't take any trade risk that could mess up team chemistry. I might be too much of a paranoid, but that's just my view.
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Post#23 Re: Jose Calderon wants out
Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:02 pm by karch34

Agree with RCG in that its a cap space trade. Not necessarily against it, but moving two average backup PGs for one that's paid twice as much for a third as long isn't as exciting as moving Ridnour/Barea for Lee.
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Post#24 Re: Jose Calderon wants out
Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:17 pm by shrink

I would rather move Roy's expiring + Ridnour or Barea too, rather than Ridnour AND Barea, but let me break it down why the latter isn't so bad.

Production-wise, with Rubio out, Ridnour and Barea get enough minutes to produce their 5's - average production. When Rubio is getting 30 minutes a game, One may produce a 5, and the other may produce a 2.

Calderon (imo), is a bit better than either Ridnour or Barea, and may produce a 6. The third string PG will likely only get enough minutes to produce a 2, so that total is 8 .. a small improvement this year.

In the future, this becomes a bigger deal. Obviously if we have both ridnour and Barea as back-ups next year, one is not going to be getting enough minutes to deserve his salary, and his trade value will decline from lack of minutes.

This year we lose financially, and lose in trade value, so we should probably get a little extra. However, we get a few little perks too. We get to see how Calderon and Ricky play together and learn from each other (maybe off-court stuff), and if we want to keep him here, we have his Bird rights. We also get a roster spot, to find another healthy body at SG.
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Post#25 Re: Jose Calderon wants out
Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:21 pm by shrink

Let me ask this. Say we could get an expiring and a Top 20 protected pick from a third team for either Ridnour or Barea.

Would you prefer a three-team trade where we send out Ridnour AND Barea and get Calderon and a pick?

Or would you rather trade Roy + Ridnour OR Barea, and get Calderon and no pick?

To me, they seem about the same as far as value, but perhaps the pick could be traded in a package to add more talent at the deadline?
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Post#26 Re: Jose Calderon wants out
Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:31 pm by Nitroglycerin

I just dont want calderon to be traded to the lakers. Lakers need to screw up some more to improve our chances of making the playoffs.
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Post#27 Re: Jose Calderon wants out
Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:49 pm by karch34

shrink wrote:Let me ask this. Say we could get an expiring and a Top 20 protected pick from a third team for either Ridnour or Barea.

Would you prefer a three-team trade where we send out Ridnour AND Barea and get Calderon and a pick?

Or would you rather trade Roy + Ridnour OR Barea, and get Calderon and no pick?

To me, they seem about the same as far as value, but perhaps the pick could be traded in a package to add more talent at the deadline?


Ridnour and Barea for Calderon and a pick would be my choice. Only because that pick could then be moved with Roy in another deal and acquiring Calderon would make the Rid/JJB to highly paid to be a 3rd PG for them not to be moved.
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Post#28 Re: Jose Calderon wants out
Sun Dec 16, 2012 11:33 pm by [RCG]

Shrink,

Do you have any rough cap numbers for this offseason? So we could judge what we would gain with say:
Everyone
w/out Ridnour
w/out Barea
w/out both
etc.
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Post#29 Re: Jose Calderon wants out
Sun Dec 16, 2012 11:51 pm by shrink

(removed to avoid confusion -- Saltine nails it)
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Post#30 Re: Jose Calderon wants out
Sun Dec 16, 2012 11:58 pm by [RCG]

I have 11 players for the first figure.

Trading Ridnour and Barea would open up ~$9 million, $14 million including Williams.
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Post#31 Re: Jose Calderon wants out
Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:31 am by Saltine

the numbers are here;
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub ... U1E&gid=19

Those numbers in Shrink's post are off by a few million.

$14,693,906 - Love
$10,219,420 - Kirilenko
$5,016,960 - Williams
$4,687,000 - Barea
$4,320,000 - Ridnour
$3,678,358 - Rubio
$3,066,667 - Shved
$884,293 - Lee

$46,566,604 for 8 guys

$2,690,875 Steimsa - not guaranteed
$2,180,000 Cunningham - team option

51,437,479 Assuming Steamer and Dante are kept and Roy isn't

$5,532,900 Roy - not guaranteed

Cap Holds;
$9,190,680 - Pekovic
$1,681,728 - Chase
$884,293 - Howard
$884,293 - Amundson

66,437,479 Assuming Pek and Chase get about $15 million between them (12 guys)

$69.6 million assuming a draft pick and 2 minimum guys.

Luxury tax may be as high as $73 million according to Cuban, or as low as $70.3 million.
So we only have issues if they keep Roy, and don't move Luke...
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Post#32 Re: Jose Calderon wants out
Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:06 am by Klomp

Am I bad for not wanting to make any trades until the offseason?

I know people don't think we need both Ridnour and Barea or Cunningham and Williams, but in a way I disagree.

Rather than looking at it as having two backup point guards and two backup point guards, I would rather look at the skillsets each of them provide, which in both cases are quite different from each other.

At PG, we have a calming influence (Ridnour) and a firecracker (Barea), a spot-up shooter, and a slasher. I wouldn't want Ridnour trying to do what Barea does because we traded Barea, or vice-versa.

Its a similar situation at PF, with Cunningham able to provide defensive energy and Williams able to provide the offensive energy. Williams is a versatile scorer, while Cunningham is relegated to spot-up duty.
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Post#33 Re: Jose Calderon wants out
Mon Dec 17, 2012 7:38 am by C.lupus

Klomp wrote:Am I bad for not wanting to make any trades until the offseason?

I know people don't think we need both Ridnour and Barea or Cunningham and Williams, but in a way I disagree.

Rather than looking at it as having two backup point guards and two backup point guards, I would rather look at the skillsets each of them provide, which in both cases are quite different from each other.

At PG, we have a calming influence (Ridnour) and a firecracker (Barea), a spot-up shooter, and a slasher. I wouldn't want Ridnour trying to do what Barea does because we traded Barea, or vice-versa.

Its a similar situation at PF, with Cunningham able to provide defensive energy and Williams able to provide the offensive energy. Williams is a versatile scorer, while Cunningham is relegated to spot-up duty.

I'm good with holding off for now and reassessing things at the trade deadline.
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Post#34 Re: Jose Calderon wants out
Mon Dec 17, 2012 7:42 am by Nitroglycerin

Good game btw by calderon againts rox.
18/10/14 . Leads league in triple double? :o
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Post#35 Re: Jose Calderon wants out
Mon Dec 17, 2012 8:41 am by shrink

[RCG] wrote:I have 11 players for the first figure.


I used the numbers from the thread three weeks ago, and now consider Roy to just be an expiring contract. I took out the money, but I forgot to remove his name.

Saltine wrote: Those numbers in Shrink's post are off by a few million.


Thanks Saltine! After I checked, you're right on the nose.

I used three sites for salary, wyn, sham, and storyteller, and when there was disagreement, majority ruled. These numbers sometimes change as new info comes out - for example, it looks like shved's has flipped 2-to-1 to the $3,066,667 number, while it remains $3,150,000 on storyteller.

I'll go back and double-check the numbers later though, because new info may have come out since then, or it's certainly possible I just mixed things up. I've been doing a lot of frustrating permutations on my spreadsheet considering the Pau Gasol trade.
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