Love Thread v8.0: Is it August 23rd yet?

[HitmanCapone]

Im indiffirent with trading MIA pick because I think it will only be a late 1st
Miami will probably make the playoffs. Its more a knock to the LEast than a compliment to the Heat

With Wiggins,Lavine,Dieng,Bennett,Bazz and GR3, as well as our Euro stashes like Bjelica,Dublejic and Norel, the coaching staff will have enough prospects to deal with

Collecting assets is good. But getting Wiggins and Bennett gives us an opportunity to skip the tanking stage post-Love and develop our guys right now by surrounding them with players that can teach them a thing or two

Id do MIA pick expirings for Thad. I think thats the best scenario
if they want Bazz or Bennett I'll take out the pick

My worry is that we won't have a draft pick if we deal the Miami 1st (assuming we acquire Young). My sense is that if we did that deal Young would have to agree to opt in that way we know it's not for a 1 year rental.

Our 2015 pick is protected 1-12. Its playoffs or lottery for us again
As I have said a while ago we have enough prospects to develop

Or we could end up without either with picks 13 or 14. IMO you should always add atleast one 1st round draft pick a year and with a team that's going to be young you want to acquire as many assets as possible as we could use those to acquire something else later but IMO we still need a PG(backup) & PF to develop

[jpatrick]

Im indiffirent with trading MIA pick because I think it will only be a late 1st
Miami will probably make the playoffs. Its more a knock to the LEast than a compliment to the Heat

With Wiggins,Lavine,Dieng,Bennett,Bazz and GR3, as well as our Euro stashes like Bjelica,Dublejic and Norel, the coaching staff will have enough prospects to deal with

Collecting assets is good. But getting Wiggins and Bennett gives us an opportunity to skip the tanking stage post-Love and develop our guys right now by surrounding them with players that can teach them a thing or two

Id do MIA pick expirings for Thad. I think thats the best scenario
if they want Bazz or Bennett I'll take out the pick

My worry is that we won't have a draft pick if we deal the Miami 1st (assuming we acquire Young). My sense is that if we did that deal Young would have to agree to opt in that way we know it's not for a 1 year rental.

Our 2015 pick is protected 1-12. Its playoffs or lottery for us again
As I have said a while ago we have enough prospects to develop

If everyone stays healthy and we acquire Young, my best guess is it won't be playoffs or lottery for us as we'll finish 9th or 10th in the West, which means pick 13 or 14. I see the argument that with Love gone we'll take a step back, but I think with acquiring the young wings, a healthy Pek, Williams, and most importantly, having a coach that even cares a little bit, we won't drop too many spots in the West.

[Nitroglycerin]

[SO_MONEY]

If everyone stays healthy and we acquire Young, my best guess is it won't be playoffs or lottery for us as we'll finish 9th or 10th in the West, which means pick 13 or 14. I see the argument that with Love gone we'll take a step back, but I think with acquiring the young wings, a healthy Pek, Williams, and most importantly, having a coach that even cares a little bit, we won't drop too many spots in the West.

Your best guess isn't very good...

Even if the team were capable of it, it would never happen, we are not going to risk missing the playoffs and losing a pick. We will comfortably be out of the playoffs holding with the 9th or 10th pick where there is almost no chance to lose it. That is pretty good for a young team, it wouldn't surprise me if that were even a struggle. But a good base to build off of nonetheless.

[Takingbaconback]

Wow 13th or 14th pick with Young? That is highly optimistic. I see them top 5-7 picks in the draft with or without Young.

[Note30]

whats our deal with phx look like we give up everything after 12 right?

[C.lupus]

whats our deal with phx look like we give up everything after 12 right?

Not sure what you are asking but here is the details on the pick:

2015 first round draft pick to Phoenix
Minnesota's 1st round pick to Phoenix protected for selections 1-12 in 2015 or 1-12 in 2016; if Minnesota has not conveyed a 1st round pick to Phoenix by 2016, then Minnesota will instead convey its 2016 2nd round pick and 2017 2nd round pick to Phoenix [Minnesota-New Orleans-Phoenix, 7/27/2012]

[HitmanCapone]

whats our deal with phx look like we give up everything after 12 right?

Correct

[Krapinsky]

As I have said a while ago we have enough prospects to develop

No we don't. That is foolish. At minimum we need 1-2 more.

1) PF, one that has demonstrated he is not an overweight asthmatic, if we keep Bennett. If we don't the need is even greater.

2) PG, we need a backup, or 3rd string guy (late first early second round) CHEAP.

BONUS:

3) SG, at some point we need to move Martin, hopefully LaVine works out, but even if he does, we either need two-way starter Vet, or a Vet back-up and a young project as a third on the dept chart with hopes of better.

SF, should be covered, and needs to be weened down.

C, should be covered, if we keep Pek (I assume we do).

I don't think it's a good thing to have too many developmental players at once. Players need to playing time to develop and there is only so much to go around. I think you also want to build a winning culture and you can't do that with too many young players.

[Krapinsky]

Wow 13th or 14th pick with Young? That is highly optimistic. I see them top 5-7 picks in the draft with or without Young.

last year that would have been good for 25-28 victories. Boston won 25, the Lakers won 27, and Sacramento won 28. Two of those teams were pretty much openly tanking.

[SO_MONEY]

As I have said a while ago we have enough prospects to develop

No we don't. That is foolish. At minimum we need 1-2 more.

1) PF, one that has demonstrated he is not an overweight asthmatic, if we keep Bennett. If we don't the need is even greater.

2) PG, we need a backup, or 3rd string guy (late first early second round) CHEAP.

BONUS:

3) SG, at some point we need to move Martin, hopefully LaVine works out, but even if he does, we either need two-way starter Vet, or a Vet back-up and a young project as a third on the dept chart with hopes of better.

SF, should be covered, and needs to be weened down.

C, should be covered, if we keep Pek (I assume we do).

I don't think it's a good thing to have too many developmental players at once. Players need to playing time to develop and there is only so much to go around. I think you also want to build a winning culture and you can't do that with too many young players.

If you want winners, draft well, let the kids compete for time. I don't have an issue adding vets, but it has to be the right deal at the right time. If we clear guys, and properly use our assets, we can add some good vets, but that needs to be done at the right time, this next off-season. We could rather easily generate 7-20mil in space, there are S&T opportunities and next off-season when we will have space will not cost us a pick and frankly that pick might be the final piece?

If not, it is too late, because we would have spent or acquired players and would have an eye on the playoffs in 15-16.

I don't think one year, with a plan, is too much for people to comprehend, nor do I feel it as some great sacrifice or detriment to the teams development. That is just plain stupid, not that you are viewing as this...

You need to put yourself in the best position to maximize, that is 15-16, I highly doubt there is any goal to win this year unless a trade for a great talent comes out of nowhere.

[Takingbaconback]

I dont buy that getting tha young instills a winning culture. He's going to give us 5-6 wins max and there is a chance that starting Bennett gives wolves more wins if his weight can stay down. Not to mention TYoung is just for one year, rather keep the Miami pick which could get to the early teens if wade and eng get hurt and Bennett who has a much higher ceiling than Thad.

[Krapinsky]

I dont buy that getting tha young instills a winning culture. He's going to give us 5-6 wins max and there is a chance that starting Bennett gives wolves more wins if his weight can stay down. Not to mention TYoung is just for one year, rather keep the Miami pick which could get to the early teens if wade and eng get hurt and Bennett who has a much higher ceiling than Thad.

Keep in mind, it's not just the Miami pick for Thad. We also get to dump $10M in salary. If you take Thad out of the deal, it's probably a fair trade just to trade Barea, Moute, and the pick for cap space.

[SO_MONEY]

I dont buy that getting tha young instills a winning culture. He's going to give us 5-6 wins max and there is a chance that starting Bennett gives wolves more wins if his weight can stay down. Not to mention TYoung is just for one year, rather keep the Miami pick which could get to the early teens if wade and eng get hurt and Bennett who has a much higher ceiling than Thad.

Keep in mind, it's not just the Miami pick for Thad. We also get to dump $10M in salary. If you take Thad out of the deal, it's probably a fair trade just to trade Barea, Moute, and the pick for cap space.

Color me stupid, but I am not following you.

1) What dump of 10mil is there...explain, players and what have you...

2) What good would creating "space" this off-season do that would warrant giving up a pick?

[ace625214]

Look at the bright side guys. If we suck ass for two more years, then we don't have to give up a first at all!

Also, Thad Young is not necessarily just for 1 year. He can opt in, since he likely won't get more in FA than the his $9.7mil option. He could also opt out and resign. There is at worst a 50/50 chance that he leaves. This isn't the Love situation.

[SO_MONEY]

Look at the bright side guys. If we suck ass for two more years, then we don't have to give up a first at all!

Also, Thad Young is not necessarily just for 1 year. He can opt in, since he likely won't get more in FA than the his $9.7mil option. He could also opt out and resign. There is at worst a 50/50 chance that he leaves. This isn't the Love situation.

If he opts-out how does he resign, do you mean retire?

And why?

[Krapinsky]

1) What dump of 10mil is there...explain, players and what have you...

Moute and Barea, most likely.

2) What good would creating "space" this off-season do that would warrant giving up a pick?

I was looking at it from a 'trade value' perspective. I can't rebut this because we wouldn't be adding cap space since we would be getting Thad back.

[ace625214]

Look at the bright side guys. If we suck ass for two more years, then we don't have to give up a first at all!

Also, Thad Young is not necessarily just for 1 year. He can opt in, since he likely won't get more in FA than the his $9.7mil option. He could also opt out and resign. There is at worst a 50/50 chance that he leaves. This isn't the Love situation.

If he opts-out how does he resign, do you mean retire?

And why?

Resign as in sign again. I guess I should have thrown a hyphen in there since it's hard to distinguish the two in text.

[SO_MONEY]

1) What dump of 10mil is there...explain, players and what have you...

Moute and Barea, most likely.

2) What good would creating "space" this off-season do that would warrant giving up a pick?

I was looking at it from a 'trade value' perspective. I can't rebut this because we wouldn't be adding cap space since we would be getting Thad back.

1) That is 8.9 million, not 10mil.

2) Say we are not taking Young, we are creating salary relief, not space. We stand at 73mil right now. Secondly, if we were creating space it would be for what intent, FA is mostly done with? What would your target be? Can't happen anyways, so not to dwell. But would you sell the pick for 8.9 million in savings on overhead costs? Glen might, you? I don't even think Glen does it BTW, way too obvious.

Lastly, say we did take back Young at 9.7 and he opts out, it really doesn't clear 9.7mil it clears the same amount in expirings that you sent for him, that being 8.9mil.

[Krapinsky]

1) What dump of 10mil is there...explain, players and what have you...

Moute and Barea, most likely.

2) What good would creating "space" this off-season do that would warrant giving up a pick?

I was looking at it from a 'trade value' perspective. I can't rebut this because we wouldn't be adding cap space since we would be getting Thad back.

1) That is 8.9 million, not 10mil.

2) Say we are not taking Young, we are creating salary relief, not space. We stand at 73mil right now. Secondly, if we were creating space it would be for what intent, FA is mostly done with? What would your target be? Can't happen anyways, so not to dwell. But would you sell the pick for 8.9 million in savings on overhead costs? Glen might, you? I don't even think Glen does it BTW, way too obvious.

Lastly, say we did take back Young at 9.7 and he opts out, it really doesn't clear 9.7mil it clears the same amount in expirings that you sent for him, that being 8.9mil.

Like I said, I was looking at it from a 'trade value perspective' -- basically to dump $9-10M in dead weight salary, you're going to have to trade a mid first. We saw this with Wes Johnson -- we traded a mid first to dump his salary. Adding an expiring Thad (who I think has positive value), makes this a a more than fair trade.

I agree with you that it doesn't make sense for the Wolves to do a hypothetical trade with Thad removed (i.e. Moute, Barea, 1st for capspace. There may be some tangential benefits to a deal -- two TPE would be created, Barea would be off the team -- but that isn't worth a pick. As for saving Taylor $10M, I'm not sure how he runs his business, so I can't speculate. For example, maybe he sets that $10M aside for a future related basketball investment - buying a pick or two, signing someone for the MLE, etc. -- or maybe he just pockets the $10M, who knows.