How do you rank our gaurds (long term)

dunkonu21 · Post #1 » by **dunkonu21** » Tue Sep 16, 2014 1:44 am

Looking at our roster right shows that our young guys are likely out of the rotation. With Kevin Martin, Corey Brewer and Chase Budinger as vets who, when healthy, all deserve minutes.

They all were signed under the Flip regime, but influenced by our win now attitude w/ Love and Adelman pushing the envelope. It is easy to assume that the attitude post Wiggins trade is more focused on long term benifit. That being said it is hard to imagine Wiggins, Lavine and (to a lesser extent) Shabazz all would be given first rights at meaningful rotation minutes with these vet wings on the roster.

So what is the solution? Who do we trade? Do we sit LaVine and Shabazz in 2014-15? Which vet loses minutes to Wiggins? Which of our gaurds has trade value?

I'd say value to the wolves is:
Wiggins-lowest floor/second highest ceiling
LaVine-easy to market/good shooter/highest ceiling
Chase-great attitude/knows role/lowest trade value/worth more to MN/decent contract when healthy.
Shabazz-great scorer/firey attitude
Brewer-role model for Wigs, great energy, awesome role player, too old for core.
Martin-old, bad fit on defense, hit his peak, known comodity, efficient scorer

Post #2 » by **Klomp** » Tue Sep 16, 2014 1:52 am

I don't think it's that hard to see what will happen.

Martin and Wiggins will start. Budinger and Brewer will be the main two getting steady minutes off the bench until LaVine and Muhammad are ready, at which time the three vets will start to see their minutes reduced.

I think LaVine will be ready sooner than most think, though, and it will be Budinger relegated to spot duty as a 3-pt specialist, which will hopefully keep him healthier as well.

Rubio / Williams / Barea
Martin / LaVine / Budinger
Wiggins / Brewer / Muhammad
Young / Bennett / Hummel
Pekovic / Dieng / Turiaf

dunkonu21 · Post #3 » by **dunkonu21** » Tue Sep 16, 2014 2:02 am

You didnt answer the question. Ru gonna bench Lavine and Shabazz? Or ru suggesting we play a 12 man rotation (terrible idea)

Ice32 · Post #4 » by **Ice32** » Tue Sep 16, 2014 2:17 am

I think its safe to say that Wiggins the Number One picks gets the starting SF nod - with Brewer playing 24 mpg off the bench.

LaVine is not NBA starter material, or ready for regular bench minutes, YET. Give him time.

Shabazz may crack the rotation, but not sure how/when. Chase needs to stay healthy to get regular mins.

Martin is the starting SG because he is our best shooter/scorer.

I think Flip goes with a 10 man rotation, with 8 core guys getting 20+ mpg each

Rubio 34 - Williams 14
Martin 28 - Chase - 20
Wiggins 28 - Brewer - 20
Thad 32 - Bennett 16
Pek 26 Dieng - 22

Takingbaconback · Post #5 » by **Takingbaconback** » Tue Sep 16, 2014 2:59 am

I think LaVine is going to be ready too. It seemed to me like he was very comfortable with the speed of the game and everything seemed to be in control. I know it is just summer league but there are many players and many top ranked prospects who find it difficult to translate their game in SL and you can just tell they will need a year or two to adjust. Personally I believe LaVine would have a Damian Lillard type of rookie year if he starts but I know he will be riding the bench for a while. I can't shake how easy he made everything look on the court, personally I'm looking forward to him turning into the next TMac with a bit less offense but more defense.

Many people are on this "let's win as many games as possible" bandwagon but once reality strikes I think Wolves will look to trade off Martin/Brewer/Budinger/anybody not part of future plans. At the end of the season, I hope the starting 5 will be Rubio/LaVine/Wiggins/Young/Pek with Dieng & Bennett platooning 50/50 at C&PF.

southern wolf · Post #6 » by **southern wolf** » Tue Sep 16, 2014 3:23 am

I'm not sure what to expect in terms of minutes for Lavine, he's pretty raw and he's got veteran players in front of him on the depth chart, but Flip was raving about him after he drafted him, so he might give him more minutes than we think.

If Brewer starts over Wiggins I'll be pissed. Brew is more suited to a bench role anyway.

Ice32 · Post #7 » by **Ice32** » Tue Sep 16, 2014 3:29 am

Im not sure how LaVine can be NBA ready when he played just one NCAA season (as a bench player) and some NBA SL games, plus he is just 180 lbs? He will most likely be playing behind Rubio, Martin, Williams, Chase and Shabazz. I think the D League will be great for him, but I cannot honestly see him getting regular rotation mins unless Chase/Rubio/Martin/Williams gets injured.

I do agree that either Chase, Martin, Brewer will be traded at some point. This is a Wolves retooling phase and the vets deserve mins on a team that can win games.

Also, what kind of money is Rubio worth? I say 50/5

Ice32 · Post #8 » by **Ice32** » Tue Sep 16, 2014 3:33 am

southern wolf wrote:I'm not sure what to expect in terms of minutes for Lavine, he's pretty raw and he's got veteran players in front of him on the depth chart, but Flip was raving about him after he drafted him, so he might give him more minutes than we think.

If Brewer starts over Wiggins I'll be pissed. Brew is more suited to a bench role anyway.

In terms of Brewer starting, it could happen early in the season, purely for Wiggins benefit. But once Wiggins adjusts to the NBA game, I also expect Brewer to become the 6th Man energy guy. Brewer may even be traded closer to the deadline, depending on how well Wiggins comes along. But Wolves fans cannot expect Wiggins to be a star player immediately, its going to take time and Im pretty sure Flip realises that. The vets on this team (Martin, Rubio, Pek, Brewer, Williams, Chase, Thad) will be the ones carrying the team to begin with, whilst Flip slowly brings along Wiggins, Bennett, Lavine and Shabazz.

Takingbaconback · Post #9 » by **Takingbaconback** » Tue Sep 16, 2014 3:47 am

Ice32 wrote:Im not sure how LaVine can be NBA ready when he played just one NCAA season (as a bench player) and some NBA SL games, plus he is just 180 lbs? He will most likely be playing behind Rubio, Martin, Williams, Chase and Shabazz. I think the D League will be great for him, but I cannot honestly see him getting regular rotation mins unless Chase/Rubio/Martin/Williams gets injured.

I do agree that either Chase, Martin, Brewer will be traded at some point. This is a Wolves retooling phase and the vets deserve mins on a team that can win games.

Also, what kind of money is Rubio worth? I say 50/5

Well Durant couldn't even bench 185 pounds once when he came out of high school so I would say talent/athleticism vastly overrides strength especially in today's NBA. Irving basically didn't play any college basketball and starting balling in the NBA which again shows if you are talented and athletic enough, you can play in this league. Even the rawer and just as skinny Greek Freak didn't play in the d-league because he had crazy athleticism and amazing skillset.

I wouldn't usually push a guy who didn't see regular rotation minutes for one year at UCLA but I can only think of one player in the NBA that has the functional athleticism and fluidity with the ball that LaVine has, and that is Westbrook. You couple that with his very smooth and easy shooting stroke and I don't see how Flip can put him at D-League. To me that is for guys like GR3 who clearly has shown every part of his game needs work in the NBA not a ridiculously special and talented freak.

Ice32 · Post #10 » by **Ice32** » Tue Sep 16, 2014 3:51 am

Yeah some valid points there. I just think though with proven vets on this roster, it could be hard for LaVine to crack the rotation, both he and Flip (and the fans) will have to be patient.

Takingbaconback · Post #11 » by **Takingbaconback** » Tue Sep 16, 2014 3:54 am

Ice32 wrote:Yeah some valid points there. I just think though with proven vets on this roster, it could be hard for LaVine to crack the rotation, both he and Flip (and the fans) will have to be patient.

Yeah realistically I would say he might not even start but I'm kinda getting my hopes up because Flip sounds so interested in him. Also seems like the best partner with Rubio possible (can create his own shot, distribute the ball, perimeter shooter, ridiculous vertical, very quick laterally on defense) if everything pans out lol.

dunkonu21 · Post #12 » by **dunkonu21** » Tue Sep 16, 2014 4:17 am

Seems the majority is at bench Bazz and LaVine.

Rubio-30/Mo-18
Martin-30/Chase-18
Wiggins-27/Brewer-21
Thad-27/Bennett-15/Dieng-6
Pek-27/Dieng-21

Something like that, with Turiaf, Hummel, Shabazz, LaVine and third PG as DNPs depending on the match-up

GopherIt! · Post #13 » by **GopherIt!** » Tue Sep 16, 2014 6:14 am

I'd like to see this Second unit:

Mo
Bazz/Lavine
Brew
Bennett
Dieng

Post #14 » by **Klomp** » Tue Sep 16, 2014 6:30 am

dunkonu21 wrote:You didnt answer the question. Ru gonna bench Lavine and Shabazz? Or ru suggesting we play a 12 man rotation (terrible idea)

Define "benching" them...

I don't think they'll get the Adelman treatment, but I don't think they'll get 20 minutes a game from day one either. If that's benching them, then yes, they'd be benched.

Saltine · Post #15 » by **Saltine** » Tue Sep 16, 2014 7:51 am

If Flip plans on trading Bud at the deadline, he needs to play to prove he's healthy and is useful... if he is very useful I think Brewer is traded away. Don't forget our little JJ either...

Rubio/Mo/Barea
Martin/Brewer/Barea/Lavine
Wiggins/Bud/Bazz

Feilong · Post #16 » by **Feilong** » Tue Sep 16, 2014 8:04 am

Sorting Through The Maze: Wolves Wing Rotation

http://www.canishoopus.com/2014/9/15/61 ... g-rotation

dunkonu21 · Post #17 » by **dunkonu21** » Tue Sep 16, 2014 4:25 pm

Klomp wrote:
dunkonu21 wrote:You didnt answer the question. Ru gonna bench Lavine and Shabazz? Or ru suggesting we play a 12 man rotation (terrible idea)

Define "benching" them...

I don't think they'll get the Adelman treatment, but I don't think they'll get 20 minutes a game from day one either. If that's benching them, then yes, they'd be benched.

Define "the Adelman treatment". If that means the Alexey Shved role, then you are basically telling me they will get the Adelman treatment.

Post #18 » by **Klomp** » Tue Sep 16, 2014 4:42 pm

Saltine wrote:If Flip plans on trading Bud at the deadline, he needs to play to prove he's healthy and is useful... if he is very useful I think Brewer is traded away. Don't forget our little JJ either...

Rubio/Mo/Barea
Martin/Brewer/Barea/Lavine
Wiggins/Bud/Bazz

The more minutes Budinger plays, the more chances there are for him to get hurt, thus killing his trade value.

Its a lot like Pekovic. No need to overwork them when we have the depth.

NewWolvesOrder · Post #19 » by **NewWolvesOrder** » Tue Sep 16, 2014 9:33 pm

Takingbaconback wrote:I think LaVine is going to be ready too. It seemed to me like he was very comfortable with the speed of the game and everything seemed to be in control. I know it is just summer league but there are many players and many top ranked prospects who find it difficult to translate their game in SL and you can just tell they will need a year or two to adjust. Personally I believe LaVine would have a Damian Lillard type of rookie year if he starts but I know he will be riding the bench for a while. I can't shake how easy he made everything look on the court, personally I'm looking forward to him turning into the next TMac with a bit less offense but more defense.

Many people are on this "let's win as many games as possible" bandwagon but once reality strikes I think Wolves will look to trade off Martin/Brewer/Budinger/anybody not part of future plans. At the end of the season, I hope the starting 5 will be Rubio/LaVine/Wiggins/Young/Pek with Dieng & Bennett platooning 50/50 at C&PF.

I have similar feelings about LaVine too. I don't watch college ball so I only knew about Zach what read on these boards and was expecting some rookie Gerald Green stuff. But when finally saw him play I was really surprised. The guy is very confidant and pretty skilled. He looks more ready than Shabazz to me, even on defense.

NewWolvesOrder · Post #20 » by **NewWolvesOrder** » Tue Sep 16, 2014 9:43 pm

Klomp wrote:
Saltine wrote:If Flip plans on trading Bud at the deadline, he needs to play to prove he's healthy and is useful... if he is very useful I think Brewer is traded away. Don't forget our little JJ either...

Rubio/Mo/Barea
Martin/Brewer/Barea/Lavine
Wiggins/Bud/Bazz

The more minutes Budinger plays, the more chances there are for him to get hurt, thus killing his trade value.

Its a lot like Pekovic. No need to overwork them when we have the depth.

Speaking about our depth and guys like Pek, Martin & Bud, I always thought that NBA schedule is very rough with so many games packed in short period of time. So I wonder if our deep rotation at C and on the wing could be used to give some guys full games off on those back-to-backs on the road. Rookie guys could also use games off to last through the whole season without hitting the rookie wall and use more training sessions during the season.