(41-9) Warriors @ Timberwolves (11-41)

Tensten · Post #121 » by **Tensten** » Thu Feb 12, 2015 1:45 pm

Great game although unlucky finish. I know Pek usually late game shots, but this was different because it was wide open shot and 80% of the time goes through hole so it was well executed play. Also starting to love Martin. Yes, he shoots a lot but he has great attitude, speaks the truth and often keeps us in a game. Sorry,but like some saying letting Wiggins take shots instead won't make him suddenly super good. Close games like this teach much more than garbage time where nobody plays hard defense. Without Martin there would had not been no chance to win this game. Wiggins is still super green for NBA. He still has to learn a lot in defense and also in offense. He often dont know exactly how to get his shots. Nobody is gonna pass him if he stays in corner. At the moment he has some 1 move which team knows he can execute.

Dieng looks pretty hopeless and starting to think its too late for him. He just can't read basketball game. He always look so lost on court and when Rubio finds him wide open he can't finish. Atleast Bennett is still 21 years old.

Our defense is so up and down. Sometimes we look like very good defensive team and then we look like total garbage.

Post #122 » by **Worm Guts** » Thu Feb 12, 2015 2:03 pm

Tensten wrote:

Dieng looks pretty hopeless and starting to think its too late for him. He just can't read basketball game. He always look so lost on court and when Rubio finds him wide open he can't finish. Atleast Bennett is still 21 years old.

.

Bennett is so much worse than Gorgui though.

Post #123 » by **C.lupus** » Thu Feb 12, 2015 2:19 pm

Dieng makes his share of mistakes on defense but a lot of the time he is getting hung out to dry by rotating to cover someone else's man and nobody rotates onto his man. The communication on defense is no existent.

Rubio is the best defender on the team. Wiggins has a lot of potential but he still makes mistakes that a 19 year old rookie will make and he appears to be a more quiet person by nature so he'll need to work on his communication. Martin, Young, Bennett, LaVine all just suck on defense. The team needs another defensive-minded guy on the frontline. That would enable Dieng to focus on his job instead of trying to cover for three positions.

sheefo13 · Post #124 » by **sheefo13** » Thu Feb 12, 2015 2:56 pm

Didn't get to watch the game. But I think we put up a decent fight. Would it be true if Mo Williams played we would've probably got the win?

I've been monitoring this forever but Wiggins playing 38 minutes and taking 7 shots is dumb. He is simply playing too much (never thought I would say that at the beginning of the season). I think the main issue is Kevin Martin is just a terrible compliment to him. I am sure if someone ran the stats for Wiggins starting with Martin or starting without Martin, it would be day and night.

I would love to see Shabazz and Wiggins starting and having Martin come off the bench. Martin can come in and play the 2 and have Bazz or Wiggins then play the 3. Have a 3 man rotation that way. I am really hoping Martin gets traded.

Bolts · Post #125 » by **Bolts** » Thu Feb 12, 2015 3:01 pm

Some people keep saying Wiggins needs to be more involved but the games I have seen Wiggins is supposed to go in the weak corner on sets. You can't criticize him for doing what he is supposed to do. 7 shots is stupid. I am sure next game he will get more. And then less. And on and on. The Atlanta game everyone shout about the same number of shots. This one too except Wiggins. It is coaching if you insist on sets that don't get your rising star involved. That is on Flip.

Crazy-Canuck · Post #126 » by **Crazy-Canuck** » Thu Feb 12, 2015 3:55 pm

Wiggs just doesn't know how to integrate himself into the offense as a 4th or 5th option. There were times he would stand in the corner at kansas, but that was by design due to the roles sg/sf's are given in that offense.

Every set seems to go through martin or pek with thad as the outlet. And now with rubio getting better with his jumper, he's also looking for his number.

sheefo13 · Post #127 » by **sheefo13** » Thu Feb 12, 2015 4:09 pm

Is there any reason a 5th option on offense should be playing 38 minutes? I agree this is on Flip. My point is get him more shots, especially when a Martin is out of the game, or get him rest and put someone else who will be a 5th option in so he is productive in the minutes he is playing. I think his defense is important but also, his defense isn't gonna be entirely efficient for 38 minutes a game.

Post #128 » by **C.lupus** » Thu Feb 12, 2015 4:11 pm

I don't know exactly how the plays are suppose to be run but I'm guessing Wiggins is suppose to be making cuts and moving like Martin does. If he just goes to a corner and stands there, he's not going to get the ball.

lobishome · Post #129 » by **lobishome** » Thu Feb 12, 2015 4:37 pm

Wiggins must play more without the ball, almost all his points are 1 on 1 plays, but he is young and he will learn.

guest81 · Post #130 » by **guest81** » Thu Feb 12, 2015 5:47 pm

Wiggins going so long without touching the ball is criminal. I'm not sure he even touched the ball the entire 4th quarter. I don't get the having to learn how to move without the ball. A lot of the play calling in the 4th was Wiggins being called to sit in the corner while we drop it off to Martin or Thad on the opposite side and have them do something. I get dumping it off to Pek because he was hot, but did we really need Rubio coming down and pulling up from 3 with 20 seconds on the shot clock? And why is Wiggins inbounding on the finals plays when he's your second best 3 point shooter?

I don't get how we can say when in the youth movement and letting the young guys play, and then go and say Wiggins needs to learn to be a 4th or 5th option. This guy is going to be your Lebron/Durant guy for the next decade! He should be learning how to be the number 1 option! His biggest knock was drifting in and out of games which is why he was better off here then in Cleveland, now were doing the same thing here. You can't tell me Wiggins should only get 7 shots in 38 minutes

Post #131 » by **Worm Guts** » Thu Feb 12, 2015 6:10 pm

How often do they even call plays? How often do plays break down and players have to improvise? There's probably some issue with not call enough plays for Wiggins, but the bigger issue is probably Wiggins not moving well without the ball.

guest81 · Post #132 » by **guest81** » Thu Feb 12, 2015 6:26 pm

Worm Guts wrote:How often do they even call plays? How often do plays break down and players have to improvise? There's probably some issue with not call enough plays for Wiggins, but the bigger issue is probably Wiggins not moving well without the ball.

I think there's more play calling in the 4th when things slow down. We called a lot of stuff for Pek because it working so I get that, but there was a lot of Rubio coming down and dumping it off to Martin coming off a screen, or giving it to Thad at the elbow. Wiggins just seemed to be on the opposite side of the court that most of the action was happening so I'm not sure how was was suppose to move to get the ball.

And again I gotta say, the biggest thing for the Wolves going forward is Wiggins learning to be the guy. Force feed him if you have to, let him learn from mistakes. He shouldn't have to worry about learning to be the 4th or 5th option when he's your number 1 option for the next decade. Durant or Lebron never needed to learn how to be the 4th or 5th option

Post #133 » by **Klomp** » Thu Feb 12, 2015 6:39 pm

guest81 wrote:He shouldn't have to worry about learning to be the 4th or 5th option when he's your number 1 option for the next decade. Durant or Lebron never needed to learn how to be the 4th or 5th option

You act like Flip is telling him "you've got to be the 4th/5th option." He's not. But at the same time, he's not going to force someone into a role they're not comfortable with yet. Wiggins has to take initiative and want to be more involved in the offense. Until that happens, he'll have more games with only seven shot attempts.

Post #134 » by **Calinks** » Thu Feb 12, 2015 6:41 pm

Flip has come out and said multiple times that Wiggins needs to learn how to score without always having plays called. My guess is that this is part of his education. Flips is trying to develop that aspect of his game. Let Flip do what he's supposed to do, coach his players.

AQuintus · Post #135 » by **AQuintus** » Thu Feb 12, 2015 6:47 pm

Klomp wrote:Players should be able to get involved without a coach having run a play designed specifically for that player to get a shot.

Sure, he should force the issue a little - get some offensive boards, run hard in transition, force turnovers, etc. But if 90% of our offense is going to be set plays where he stands in the corner on the opposite side of the court to where the action is going on, there's not much he can do. He's not going to, and he shouldn't, disrupt the play that's called by freelancing.

Even if we don't want to force feed him iso plays constantly (which seems to be pretty much all of the team's half-court plays for him), he should at least be getting some screens sent his way.

guest81 · Post #136 » by **guest81** » Thu Feb 12, 2015 6:49 pm

Klomp wrote:
guest81 wrote:He shouldn't have to worry about learning to be the 4th or 5th option when he's your number 1 option for the next decade. Durant or Lebron never needed to learn how to be the 4th or 5th option

You act like Flip is telling him "you've got to be the 4th/5th option." He's not. But at the same time, he's not going to force someone into a role they're not comfortable with yet. Wiggins has to take initiative and want to be more involved in the offense. Until that happens, he'll have more games with only seven shot attempts.

but isn't that the whole point of developing a guy? Putting them in roles they aren't comfortable with until they become comfortable? Isn't that why the Wolves are having Lavine run point?

Also I just don't get the "take initiative part". I don't think Wiggins just comes down and stands in the corner because he's timid. He's obviously being told to come down to that spot. If he's in the corner, and Rubio comes down and dumps it to Pek on the opposite box, how is he suppose to demand the ball? What about a pick and roll with Rubio and Wiggins? Did anybody give Wiggins a screen to get a shot? Rubio and Martin got a bunch. Why run him into the ground for 40 minutes a night if he's only going to get 7 shots? What does that accomplish?

guest81 · Post #137 » by **guest81** » Thu Feb 12, 2015 6:54 pm

Calinks wrote:Flip has come out and said multiple times that Wiggins needs to learn how to score without always having plays called. My guess is that this is part of his education. Flips is trying to develop that aspect of his game. Let Flip do what he's supposed to do, coach his players.

My question would be, why does he need to learn that, when he hasn't yet learned how to be the go to guy? That's the biggest part of his development. It was stupid when Rambis didn't let Love shoot 3's and develop his post game more, this isn't quite as bad but it's still a dumb reason.

TaylorTag · Post #138 » by **TaylorTag** » Thu Feb 12, 2015 7:06 pm

guest81 wrote:
Klomp wrote:
guest81 wrote:He shouldn't have to worry about learning to be the 4th or 5th option when he's your number 1 option for the next decade. Durant or Lebron never needed to learn how to be the 4th or 5th option

You act like Flip is telling him "you've got to be the 4th/5th option." He's not. But at the same time, he's not going to force someone into a role they're not comfortable with yet. Wiggins has to take initiative and want to be more involved in the offense. Until that happens, he'll have more games with only seven shot attempts.

but isn't that the whole point of developing a guy? Putting them in roles they aren't comfortable with until they become comfortable? Isn't that why the Wolves are having Lavine run point?

No.. Lavine is playing point due to necessity. We have had no depth at PG all season..

I think everyone is reading too much into Wiggins touches this game. Here's my take:

Flip wants to know what he has with a starting line up of Rubio/Martin/Wiggins/Younf/Pek..

Trade deadline is approaching and Flip is trying to determine whether this lineup is good enough to make a playoff run next year. Wiggins is here long term. He has the rest of the season to grow and develop. Flip tentatively has Martin and Young until Feb. 19

Then Flip has to decide whether Martin and Young are part of the future.. I think Martin is indisposable at this point. He's a pure scorer-- a piece every team needs and the only other guy on our roster we can hope to develop into that role is Lavine, but he is a couple years out and once Lavine is ready Martin's contract will expire..

Young, on the other hand, is a huge question mark, so Flip is undoubtedly trying to see if the guy fits with the rest of our pieces..

That's my theory as to why Wiggins took a back seat last night (he still played the most MINs in the game)..

Post #139 » by **Calinks** » Thu Feb 12, 2015 7:19 pm

guest81 wrote:
Calinks wrote:Flip has come out and said multiple times that Wiggins needs to learn how to score without always having plays called. My guess is that this is part of his education. Flips is trying to develop that aspect of his game. Let Flip do what he's supposed to do, coach his players.

My question would be, why does he need to learn that, when he hasn't yet learned how to be the go to guy? That's the biggest part of his development. It was stupid when Rambis didn't let Love shoot 3's and develop his post game more, this isn't quite as bad but it's still a dumb reason.

Becasue in the off-season, when NBA players become NBA players and really make improvements, Wiggins can go to the coaching staff, see what he needs to work on the most and they will have some key things they want him to work on. He will be able to see that he needs to do a better job of getting involved in the offense to improve his game. He also needs to play more consistent defense. He cant have everything fed to him. Flip know he is capable of all of these things, he is helping him grow.

Look at Shabazz, he probably has had few plays run for him early on but he made the best of everything. Wiggins needs to learn to give maximum effort all game long and he wont have any issues getting point

guest81 · Post #140 » by **guest81** » Thu Feb 12, 2015 7:19 pm

Lakers612 wrote:
guest81 wrote:
Klomp wrote:You act like Flip is telling him "you've got to be the 4th/5th option." He's not. But at the same time, he's not going to force someone into a role they're not comfortable with yet. Wiggins has to take initiative and want to be more involved in the offense. Until that happens, he'll have more games with only seven shot attempts.

but isn't that the whole point of developing a guy? Putting them in roles they aren't comfortable with until they become comfortable? Isn't that why the Wolves are having Lavine run point?

No.. Lavine is playing point due to necessity. We have had no depth at PG all season..

I think everyone is reading too much into Wiggins touches this game. Here's my take:

Flip wants to know what he has with a starting line up of Rubio/Martin/Wiggins/Younf/Pek..

Trade deadline is approaching and Flip is trying to determine whether this lineup is good enough to make a playoff run next year. Wiggins is here long term. He has the rest of the season to grow and develop. Flip tentatively has Martin and Young until Feb. 19

Then Flip has to decide whether Martin and Young are part of the future.. I think Martin is indisposable at this point. He's a pure scorer-- a piece every team needs and the only other guy on our roster we can hope to develop into that role is Lavine, but he is a couple years out and once Lavine is ready Martin's contract will expire..

Young, on the other hand, is a huge question mark, so Flip is undoubtedly trying to see if the guy fits with the rest of our pieces..

That's my theory as to why Wiggins took a back seat last night (he still played the most MINs in the game)..

Well if Flip is truely wondering if that lineup is a playoff team, I can tell him for 100% certainty that it is not. And if by some miracle in the heavens that they were a playoff team, the absolute peak they would be is an 8th seed getting swept. I would hope that we would have a higher goal for our future core.

I can also answer easily that no, Young nor Martin are parts to the future. Martin is old with injuries problems and should no way be expected to hold up 3 years from now. Thad Youngs problem is that he's just an average player. You know what he is, and no way is that "starting on a playoff team".

If that was truly the reason (I don't think it is) then it's a dumb one. There is literary nothing the Wolves can do that will matter, if Wiggins doesn't develop into the superstar player. He should be priority one two three and four