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What did we actually lose from last year?

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What did we actually lose from last year? 

Post#1 » by Note30 » Fri Feb 13, 2015 5:40 pm

I've been seeing a lot of trades made to move Pek and KMart from the team on the trade boards. After having seen these, I realized something specific about our team. Compare our rosters from last year. We haven't really lost much except Love. I still feel like the conversations we are having for trades, have been because our team was injured, and we readily forgot the performances we could have when everyone was healthy.

Thats a terrible reason to give up the best scorers on our team. I get the want for them to go. But in reality, what did we really lose from last year besides Love? With the cap going up, Pek actually seems like a really helpful guy to have on the team. Everyone gasps if we say play him from the bench, but if we did? Pek would **** on guys like Festus Ezeli, and a bunch of first/second year players that other contenders have hired. Keep in mind, that the center position is the one with least depth in the league. Why not keep the one guy who has a rep for destroying guys weaker than him? He'd be like Shaq for the bench. Yes, before you bring up the injury point, I am trying to say 22-24 minutes a game, Pek will be a low chance of injury. We would actually dominate a position for once.

As for KMart, yes I am open to trading him, but only because our wing rotation is stacked. But I'd rather try to find a taker for Thad. And move our pick for a semi-star type talent and bring KMart off the bench.

I know none of you have forgot that we haven't seen the playoffs in years, but I still think that if we trade this pick for a semi-star (i.e. Derrick Favors), trade thad and buds and bennetts contract, create some space for an additional FA. We have a shot of rebuilding while making a run for the playoffs.

Looking at last years lineup:

Rubio/Barea
Kmart/Shved / Muhammed
Brewer/Budinger
Love/DC
Pek/Turiaf

that's the lineup we had to get us into the playoffs. How is that talent wise any different than for example this.

Rubio/-- (FA)
Wiggins/KMart
--(FA) / Shabazz
(Favors trade for Pick)/-- (Payne -- 3PT shooting)
Dieng/Pek

We can make a solid push for the playoffs if we get an RFA or UFA like for example Draymond Green, and give up an asset (LaVine) for a guy like Darren Collison or George Hill.

But above all, the biggest difference would be that we need a new coach. Getting a new coach would solve a lot of problems, because frankly, Flip isn't going to cut it.
Go after Hoiberg/Izzo and get Malone as an assistant. We can still make a deep run for the playoffs with the right coaching.
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[*]-Mar 2023 in reference to the Gobert trade.
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Re: What did we actually lose from last year? 

Post#2 » by The J Rocka » Fri Feb 13, 2015 5:56 pm

I would look to move Pek, especially if we're drafting a big. With Payne, AB, and Dieng already on board with the possibility of adding another front-court player, Pek should eventually be the odd man out. If they're serious about developing LaVine properly they should move Martin and give LaVine minutes at SG off the bench instead of forcing him to be a PG. I don't think it's necessary to have a 30 year old SG who wants to take 18-20 shots every game just to win a few extra games. Let Rubio, Wiggins, Shabazz, and our new draft pick get most of the touches.
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Re: What did we actually lose from last year? 

Post#3 » by guest81 » Fri Feb 13, 2015 6:32 pm

Bash Kevin Love all you want, but saying you "just lost Love" is kinda understating the historic season he had last year. I think we saw this year that you can't just have to average players and say combined they equal a guy like Love's production. It doesn't work that way
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Re: What did we actually lose from last year? 

Post#4 » by Worm Guts » Fri Feb 13, 2015 6:42 pm

The J Rocka wrote:I would look to move Pek, especially if we're drafting a big. With Payne, AB, and Dieng already on board with the possibility of adding another front-court player, Pek should eventually be the odd man out. If they're serious about developing LaVine properly they should move Martin and give LaVine minutes at SG off the bench instead of forcing him to be a PG. I don't think it's necessary to have a 30 year old SG who wants to take 18-20 shots every game just to win a few extra games. Let Rubio, Wiggins, Shabazz, and our new draft pick get most of the touches.


I don't think we should just assume we know we're drafting a big though. Who knows where we'll fall in the lottery. Someone like Russell could easily the best player available.
I'd also say I don't consider AB as part of the future at this point. He's on the roster because we're stuck with his contract.
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Re: What did we actually lose from last year? 

Post#5 » by LordBaldric » Fri Feb 13, 2015 6:48 pm

Well, if it weren't for all the injuries, there would be a lot less talk about trading Pek. As far as Martin goes, he's sorta blocking Wiggins, who's best position now is SG, and Bazz, who IMO deserves a chance to start at SF. I'd be fine keeping KM if he's willing to come off the bench, but then the LaVine supporters think he should get that backup SG role.

I feel Thad needs to go the most. The Payne trade has overloaded us at that position, and I don't see any justification for trading a 1st round pick for a 24 yr old rookie PF and not feeding him a big dose of minutes. Plus Thad could fetch something decent potentially. Also, as Rocka said above, we will likely be adding another big through the draft.
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Re: What did we actually lose from last year? 

Post#6 » by Worm Guts » Fri Feb 13, 2015 6:48 pm

I'd also say I'm fine with Lavine sitting on the bench until he earns his playing time. He'll still probably get minutes as an injury replacement. Once he actually starts playing well, then we can trade Martin.
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Re: What did we actually lose from last year? 

Post#7 » by guest81 » Fri Feb 13, 2015 6:53 pm

would people still want to trade Martin/Pek/Thad if you only got cap relief and or second round picks?
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Re: Re: What did we actually lose from last year? 

Post#8 » by Merc_Porto » Fri Feb 13, 2015 6:56 pm

guest81 wrote:would people still want to trade Martin/Pek/Thad if you only got cap relief and or second round picks?


Yes.
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Re: Re: What did we actually lose from last year? 

Post#9 » by guest81 » Fri Feb 13, 2015 7:00 pm

mercgold3 wrote:
guest81 wrote:would people still want to trade Martin/Pek/Thad if you only got cap relief and or second round picks?


Yes.


and do what with the extra money?
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Re: Re: Re: What did we actually lose from last year? 

Post#10 » by Merc_Porto » Fri Feb 13, 2015 7:08 pm

guest81 wrote:
mercgold3 wrote:
guest81 wrote:would people still want to trade Martin/Pek/Thad if you only got cap relief and or second round picks?


Yes.


and do what with the extra money?


That is a real question ?
If they want, they can give the money to me. I mean.

Only the Timberwolves can't sign good players ? It's because is cold in Minnesota ?
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Re: Re: What did we actually lose from last year? 

Post#11 » by AQuintus » Fri Feb 13, 2015 7:15 pm

guest81 wrote:and do what with the extra money?


Who cares? The money is secondary to the added roster spots and playing time/spots in the rotation.
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Re: What did we actually lose from last year? 

Post#12 » by Note30 » Fri Feb 13, 2015 7:16 pm

guest81 wrote:would people still want to trade Martin/Pek/Thad if you only got cap relief and or second round picks?


Thad yes. Everyone else no.
frankenwolf wrote:I hope you eat every one of these words next year when the Timberwolves are world champions

[*]-Mar 2023 in reference to the Gobert trade.
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Re: What did we actually lose from last year? 

Post#13 » by NewWolvesOrder » Fri Feb 13, 2015 7:16 pm

LordBaldric wrote:Well, if it weren't for all the injuries, there would be a lot less talk about trading Pek. As far as Martin goes, he's sorta blocking Wiggins, who's best position now is SG, and Bazz, who IMO deserves a chance to start at SF. I'd be fine keeping KM if he's willing to come off the bench, but then the LaVine supporters think he should get that backup SG role.

I feel Thad needs to go the most. The Payne trade has overloaded us at that position, and I don't see any justification for trading a 1st round pick for a 24 yr old rookie PF and not feeding him a big dose of minutes. Plus Thad could fetch something decent potentially. Also, as Rocka said above, we will likely be adding another big through the draft.


pretty much agree with this post. As for Martin vs Lavine off the bench I think KMart for a good backup PG who can complement Lavine makes a lot of sense to me.
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Re: Re: What did we actually lose from last year? 

Post#14 » by Worm Guts » Fri Feb 13, 2015 7:24 pm

AQuintus wrote:
guest81 wrote:and do what with the extra money?


Who cares? The money is secondary to the added roster spots and playing time/spots in the rotation.


Are you just looking for rebuilding minutes, or do think we can actually get better players? I think it would actually be tough to replace both Pek and Martin. Trade them both and we're going to be worse. Thad can probably replaced pretty easily, although he's capable of playing better than he has this year.
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Re: What did we actually lose from last year? 

Post#15 » by Note30 » Fri Feb 13, 2015 7:29 pm

.... can someone actually address the points I made, in the opening argument?
frankenwolf wrote:I hope you eat every one of these words next year when the Timberwolves are world champions

[*]-Mar 2023 in reference to the Gobert trade.
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Re: What did we actually lose from last year? 

Post#16 » by Merc_Porto » Fri Feb 13, 2015 7:30 pm

Pek - Thad - Martin aren't bad players. Don't get me wrong on that.

They just are bad fits on the same team. Between this 3 the defense is 0,00001.

Replace this players with :

Pek - (draft pick)
Martin - Wiggins as SG.
Thad - Payne or a FA (with the cap relief)
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Re: What did we actually lose from last year? 

Post#17 » by Note30 » Fri Feb 13, 2015 7:34 pm

guest81 wrote:Bash Kevin Love all you want, but saying you "just lost Love" is kinda understating the historic season he had last year. I think we saw this year that you can't just have to average players and say combined they equal a guy like Love's production. It doesn't work that way


just lost Love is an understatement, but we did gain a lot in Wiggins. Sure he's no Love yet, but he's already a better defender. I say he makes up for Love's deficit. Next year and the year after is where we make up on what we lost. The pick this year + LaVine should net us something nice. Add that in and we make up for Love. IMO if we did land a guy like Favors, we essentially made up the Love deficit. If you add in the lineup I had in the early post a lineup of Rubio- Wiggins - (Shabazz/FA) - Favors - Dieng is better than Rubio-Martin-Brewer-Love-Pek. Sure the offense won't have the same spark but with the right coach, we could have a better starting lineup. That plus having, Martin and Pek off the bench means we would be a dominant force.
frankenwolf wrote:I hope you eat every one of these words next year when the Timberwolves are world champions

[*]-Mar 2023 in reference to the Gobert trade.
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Re: Re: What did we actually lose from last year? 

Post#18 » by AQuintus » Fri Feb 13, 2015 7:39 pm

Worm Guts wrote:Are you just looking for rebuilding minutes, or do think we can actually get better players? I think it would actually be tough to replace both Pek and Martin.


Rebuilding minutes. Pek will be replaced by the big we end up drafting, and Martin can already be replaced by more minutes for Shabazz and LaVine (will hurt winning, but winning isn't a priority now anyway).

Trade them both and we're going to be worse.


We have the 2nd worst record in the league, the only thing we're playing for at this point is a draft pick. Getting worse isn't a big deal or even a bad thing at this point. Going forward, those 2 are so injury prone that just getting guys we can count on to play will be an upgrade. Having Wiggins at the 2 full time should be an upgrade over Martin, and if we can get a solid 3-and-D SF in free agency, the team as a whole should be better off.
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Re: What did we actually lose from last year? 

Post#19 » by Worm Guts » Fri Feb 13, 2015 7:39 pm

Note30 wrote:.... can someone actually address the points I made, in the opening argument?


I wouldn't trade the pick.
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Re: Re: What did we actually lose from last year? 

Post#20 » by Worm Guts » Fri Feb 13, 2015 7:49 pm

AQuintus wrote:
Worm Guts wrote:Are you just looking for rebuilding minutes, or do think we can actually get better players? I think it would actually be tough to replace both Pek and Martin.


Rebuilding minutes. Pek will be replaced by the big we end up drafting, and Martin can already be replaced by more minutes for Shabazz and LaVine (will hurt winning, but winning isn't a priority now anyway).

Trade them both and we're going to be worse.


We have the 2nd worst record in the league, the only thing we're playing for at this point is a draft pick. Getting worse isn't a big deal or even a bad thing at this point. Going forward, those 2 are so injury prone that just getting guys we can count on to play will be an upgrade. Having Wiggins at the 2 full time should be an upgrade over Martin, and if we can get a solid 3-and-D SF in free agency, the team as a whole should be better off.


When I say we'll be worse, I'm worried about next year. I think I'd like to see who we draft before dumping potentially useful pieces like Pek or Martin.

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