The Zach LaVine Thread

shangrila · Post #401 » by **shangrila** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 8:30 am

Dewey wrote:The irony: Funny that not one of idiot posters who ripped on Flip for selecting Lavine (even though he had scouted him since he was a freshman) have ever commented lately ... didn't know what they didn't know. I laugh AT them.

no guarentees in this business ... heck even turned out ok with the Bazz/Dieng deal ... who knew??

I'm still around

Honestly, I don't feel bad about my take back then. I'm glad I was proven wrong and all, but it's not ridiculous to be upset about drafting a prospect who showed little to nothing in college, especially at the time when the Love situation was still in the air.

Although since then I have complete faith in this scouting department and I'll give them the benefit of the doubt, even if I disagree with a move (like the Payne trade).

shangrila · Post #402 » by **shangrila** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 8:35 am

Note30 wrote:The end result is all that matters.

Eh, somewhat.

Good or bad shots don't change whether the ball goes in. If it does go in, however, then there's not as much of a reason to harp on it because it cost the team nothing. Though if Zach misses those shots he'd be getting torn to shreds, and rightfully so. Pulling up from a foot outside the 3pt line with a good defender on you isn't a good shot.

But he made it, so all's well that ends well.

zeemwolves · Post #403 » by **zeemwolves** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 9:11 am

seeing Lavine that night i can say i see a lot of westbrook in him, those run up threes, that intensity and he's only 20! great game for him showing us he has the confidence to be a clutch player and a great shooter

Note30 · Post #404 » by **Note30** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 9:43 am

shangrila wrote:
Note30 wrote:The end result is all that matters.

Eh, somewhat.

Good or bad shots don't change whether the ball goes in. If it does go in, however, then there's not as much of a reason to harp on it because it cost the team nothing. Though if Zach misses those shots he'd be getting torn to shreds, and rightfully so. Pulling up from a foot outside the 3pt line with a good defender on you isn't a good shot.

But he made it, so all's well that ends well.

Exactly.

minimus · Post #405 » by **minimus** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:10 am

I still think that Zach and Russell Westbrook don't have much in common except of leaping ability. They have difirent personality (Zach is great, quiet, humble kid. While Westbrook has been under pressure of high expectations from the very first day, I think it influenced his on court behaivor), different body type (Zach is leaper, while Westbrook is tough as nail), different offensive repertoire (Zach is more off the ball scorer, great shooter, while Westbrook is dangerous with his pull up mid range jumpers and crazy drives)

Viljanen · Post #406 » by **Viljanen** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 11:32 am

I did not like lavine selection at the time he was drafted and I still don´t like it. He might be a decent SG one day... we do not know that. What we know now is that as a PG he has been very likely -the worst player in the NBA this season-. At least by advanced stats... (RAPM). That is not a minor thing... no matter how young he is.

IMO a re-draft would have lavine at the very least below the following guys:
Wiggins
Smart
Gordon: he was killing it before the injury
Parker
Nurkic
Embiid
Payton
Saric

Those are for sure IMO, then you coudl argue that some more would be there too. I have never said Lavine is useless. He is very young, and has some impresive tools... who knows. The problem with him now is that he just does not play the game well. That can be learnt... or not. Players that understand the game when young are normally more likely to become stars. With Lavine we are gambling hard, that sometimes work, most times not. I like other options much better.

Post #407 » by **Worm Guts** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:38 pm

The big thing with Lavine is that his handle and elevation basically allow him to get an open jump shot whenever he wants it. If he can gain some consistency, it's easy to see him as a streaky scorer who can put up some big scoring games.
I'll also say that most of the wings we were considering at draft time (Stauskus, Harris, James Young) have been terrible or just not in the rotation. Lavine has been as good or better than any of them. Statistically, his PER and TS have risen pretty significantly over the course of the season.

Mattya · Post #408 » by **Mattya** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 1:03 pm

I would say his biggest weaknesses are his strength and turnovers. Most of his shots I can live with. Sometimes he takes an early shot clock 3, but not too often for me. His turnovers stem from not lack of experience and being played out of position. I really don't want to see him at point anymore unless we have a good distributer next to him. He tries to forces passes out of the pick and roll that just aren't there. He needs to get some strength. Once he adds some muscle he won't get bumped off his drive lines so easily. That will open up his game so much more. The good thing is that his weaknesses are due to being young and inexperienced and he seems pretty coachable.

Crazy-Canuck · Post #409 » by **Crazy-Canuck** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 1:33 pm

Offensively, he is a streaky shooter that hasnt seen a shot he didnt like. Hes got a great first step and is explosive, but it seems that he avoids contact when he can. He'll put up volume points when given an opportunity and will win you some games when he is hot.

Aside from that, he really doesnt provide much else. He is easily one of the worst defenders in the league which is a shame because hes got all the tools to be a good defender, he just has no fire to get after it on that end.

Zeitgeister · Post #410 » by **Zeitgeister** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 2:05 pm

Note30 wrote:
Zeitgeister wrote:
MinneOOPalis wrote:Yup. He knew he wanted we needed a 3 and took the first one that came up. In the post-game interview he said he practices that pull up from that range.

So do you guys believe that any shot that happens to go in is a good shot? Or can there be a shot that goes in, that is a bad one?

The end result is all that matters.

On that, I completely disagree. I think the process is what matters the most, not the end result. You cannot entirely control the end result, only the process that you use. If he had used more of the shot clock and gotten an open three for himself or a good shooting teammate and missed it, that still would have been a better process than the one he used.

Post #411 » by **Klomp** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 4:09 pm

Zeitgeister wrote:If he had used more of the shot clock and gotten an open three for himself or a good shooting teammate and missed it, that still would have been a better process than the one he used.

If he uses up the clock, he loses any potential chance for his teammates to pull down an offensive rebound if he misses it.

horaceworthy · Post #412 » by **horaceworthy** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 5:58 pm

Zeitgeister wrote:On that, I completely disagree. I think the process is what matters the most, not the end result. You cannot entirely control the end result, only the process that you use. If he had used more of the shot clock and gotten an open three for himself or a good shooting teammate and missed it, that still would have been a better process than the one he used.

If the Wolves had been up by 3 I'd agree with you. Down by 3 with 13 seconds left, I'm okay with a quick shot that would give the Wolves an extra possession of trading threes for free throws if it doesn't go down. Especially since Zach had been splashing from that range all night, if he'd gotten any closer Exum's a good enough defender he would have made getting a shot off more difficult, and it's not like Lavine had a plethora of good shooting teammates available.

It was still a "You stupid 19 year old mother...OF GOD YOU BEAUTIFUL BASTARD!" moment, and I'm not a fan of some of the shots he took earlier in the game, but the game tying one is pretty defensible, even without going down the results over process road.

Post #413 » by **Klomp** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 4:30 pm

In the last ten games (since reinsertion in starting lineup): 16.8 ppg, 4.3 apg with 45.2 3FG%

packforfreedom · Post #414 » by **packforfreedom** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 4:42 pm

the more I see him starting at the 2 the more I think he could do so on a regular basis next year even with Martin on the roster. anybody disagree?

Mattya · Post #415 » by **Mattya** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 4:44 pm

He is significantly better at shooting guard.

Saltine · Post #416 » by **Saltine** » Wed Apr 1, 2015 9:43 am

He is a SG.

minimus · Post #417 » by **minimus** » Wed Apr 1, 2015 9:58 am

He is scorer, not fascilitator

Post #418 » by **Klomp** » Thu Apr 9, 2015 9:22 pm

How about a little love for how this guy's been playing lately

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shzjcL3SYNw[/youtube]

Note30 · Post #419 » by **Note30** » Thu Apr 9, 2015 9:55 pm

Klomp wrote:How about a little love for how this guy's been playing lately

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shzjcL3SYNw[/youtube]

I don't understand why people give him so much crap. He's been doing an amazing job at the 2. He's no PG, but he could easily be the Wolves greatest shooting guard ever in about a year or two.

EDIT: Unless you count Brandon Roy. But he wasn't a Wolf in his prime so it doesn't matter.

Magoose · Post #420 » by **Magoose** » Thu Apr 9, 2015 9:56 pm

Really high on him and still think he has all star talent but of course needs to improve his game in a lot of areas.

From your perspective: What should be the top priorities for Zach in the offseason and/or most needed improvements for next season?

I'd like to see Zach working on:

1) Man to man defense, especially pnr defense
2) Adding upper body strength
3) understanding team defense/help defense/rotations
4) shot selection
5) adding one or two go to moves to his arsenal
6) stabilizing his shot mechanics

in the offseason/during next season.