The Zach LaVine Thread

[doubledyll424]

SO dam stoked, my number one target all along. Patience fans, this is gonna be fun and exciting to see him develop.

How does he fit with Rubio though. Do we play him as a backup PG or play him at SG?

The first year he will be in a 6th man role with playing time at both the 1 and 2. After a year and depending on what we do with Kevin Martin we will evaluate his ability and fit. In a few years LaVine will likely be a SG but ultimately it depends on his development, ability, and work ethic

[Worm Guts]

If we're lucky he'll be a sixth man in his first year, but I'm guessing it will be more like 9th-10th-11th man.

[doubledyll424]

If you judged this guy on what he did on the court, by any metric, he'd be a 2nd rounder. But because he can jump high he's the 13th pick.

Ugh.

I don't think that is why we drafted him at 13...True, he is extremely athletic and did not perform extremely well at UCLA in terms of most common evaluations.

He did show all of the signs of being an amazing player though. He has a phenomenal work ethic, elite level professionalism, and extremely rare intangibles. He consistently looks for areas to improve himself and is already a fantastic defender and great in isolation. Talent wise he may have been a top 5 pick and if he was on a different team with the opportunity for higher numbers.

Given his situation in college and potential he was certainly a steal at 13. He will have some time to learn from Kevin Martin and learn a little more discipline for his offensive game.

Excellent fit for our team and system!

[C-Dub47]

If we're lucky he'll be a sixth man in his first year, but I'm guessing it will be more like 9th-10th-11th man.

Meh, I wouldn't be so sure about that. Flip did mention how raw he is, but he also sounded like he plans to use him plenty this year, his athleticism will allow it even with how raw he is.

[horaceworthy]

Obviously, I'm disappointed with the pick. But I wanted KCP if he was there last year, and really wanted Evan Turner that year, so I'm not going to say too adamantly that the Wolves got it wrong.

Funny that Flip says Lavine was 7th on his board, which is just one off the #6 pick, which would have been offered by the Celtics. Maybe passing on that trade just saved us from drafting McDermott #6. Yikes.

On the brightside, it's nice to know Flip isn't going all in to appease Love. He's taking a long term outlook and trying to build for the future. Hopefully, he can prove most of us wrong with the Lavine pick.

EDIT: They showed a stat during the draft -- I believe later after he was picked and it said Lavine held opponents to the third lowest FG% in ISO situations in the Pac-10 and it was like 18% or something? Did anyone see this?

Great minds.

Did anybody else catch the stat ESPN showed on LaVine while the Glenn Robinson III pick was coming in? It said that LaVine held opponents to 19% shooting in isolation situations (3rd best in the Pac-12). I'm thinking there has to be a catch (sample size, quality of competition, a stats guy mistaking a 7 for an old timey 1), but I can't help but being more intrigued in his defensive potential than I was before I saw that stat.

Flip seemed to reference this in a clip one of the local papers posted. He recalled that LaVine only got beaten off the dribble once in isolation opportunities. In the same breath he also gave the grain of salt to take that with, since the sample size was once in 28 opportunities.

Even that small tidbit Flip offered up made me more optimistic than I was before the draft. I'm not sold on LaVine's defensive potential, but I'm more intrigued than I was before. People also often harp on Flip for not using advanced statistics. I'm an advocate of advanced stats, but as helpful as they are, most of the best ones available to the public, RPM, PER, O and D rating and the like, are still chopped up box score production. It's a little reassuring to hear Flip referencing the situational stats provided by a service like Synergy.

[Krapinsky]

I think if I sniffed just the right amount of glue I could close my eyes and picture Lavine becoming a taller, more athletic, and better defending version of a Steph Curry type player. From his High School says he showed an ultra quick release and the ability to pull up from anywhere. EDIT: Sans glue, I still see Jared Cunningham or 19 yr old Gerald Green.

[Worm Guts]

I think it's important to use statistical analysis, but when it comes to college freshman it really shouldn't be the end all. It's not a huge sample size, and we're not given any trend for development.

[Swish4]

Optimistically, I'm thinking he develops into a Rip Hamilton type.

[MinneOOPalis]

I think it was a combination of him being a scoring PG coming out of high school. Then having to play behind two other NBA upperclassmen who also needed the ball.

Even when he came off the bench the coach favored his son over Lavine as the primary ball handler. So Lavine's job was basically just to spot up and score. It was just a terrible situation for him.

[My Main Man]

Anyone ever listen to 105 The Ticket in MN? Michael Knight was just talking about Zach Lavine and it seriously sounded like he did a 3 second Twitter search, saw the "F*** me" thing and then just went on a knee-jerk ill-informed rant. The absolute worst takes on basketball in all of Minnesota which is an impressive feat.

[Calinks]

Personality wise, I get Beasley vibes from him.

[miltk]

I think if I sniffed just the right amount of glue I could close my eyes and picture Lavine becoming a taller, more athletic, and better defending version of a Steph Curry type player. From his High School says he showed an ultra quick release and the ability to pull up from anywhere. EDIT: Sans glue, I still see Jared Cunningham or 19 yr old Gerald Green.

zach's white twitch is quick. his shooting form is built to be streaky, so he's no curry. his shooting mechanics are horrid, his elbow is cocked outward, and he's a two handed shooter

[horaceworthy]

What I mean by that is, what are his go to moves / skills / and strengths? I can't think of any, the only thing you could say is finishing wide open dunks I guess.

Just off what I've seen of him, his strengths coming into the league are his athleticism, his handle, and his jump shot. The move he seems most comfortable relying on are using his quickness and handle to create space for a pull up jumper going to his left.

He has the athleticism to capitalize on contest and release opportunities as well as those provided in the secondary break. I think he'll struggle getting to and finishing at the rim in the half court and I don't buy the PG talk. I do think he has a good enough handle and shoots it well enough off the bounce to get some pick and roll opportunities. According to DX, coming off screens made up almost 18% of his offense and he averaged 1.08 PPP in those situations, so that could be another way to use him. Having guys that can shoot on the floor also provides spacing that benefits everyone.

There are obviously reasons to be cautious as well. He needs to get stronger, make better decisions with the ball, and his collegiate resume is decidedly light for a lottery pick. The big problem I see with his ability to attack in the halfcourt is that he doesn't make a decision with the ball until he gets all the way to the rim, which tends to be a recipe for failure. A lot of the problems are correctable, and/or can be chalked up to being 18 years old and part of a guard rotation that included two highly productive 1st round picks and the coach's son.

He wasn't the guy I wanted Flip to pick. I would have taken one of those highly productive teammates, as I feel very confident there's a place in the NBA for a 6'9" Andre Miller. I also understand the concern about walking away from a 1st round full of guys who have good chances to be good players with an upside gamble that will require patience, and the concern that not all correctable problems get corrected. That being said, it's not too difficult for me to see how some of what he brings to the table can benefit the Wolves, and at least he'll provide some rooting interest in All-Star weekend for a Wolves season that's unlikely to provide an actual All-Star or a playoff appearance (I've been a fan of the Wolves since the first year, you learn to appreciate the little things).

[Klomp]

LaVine picked his number as an homage to idol Kobe Bryant and because Nikola Pekovic already wears No. 14, his college number.

"I'm not going to fight him over that number," LaVine said. "That dude is huge. He takes up a whole locker."

* When asked about LaVine's basketball IQ and ability to learn and adapt to the NBA's complex offenses, Flip said, "That's up to the coach."

http://www.startribune.com/sports/blogs/264950741.html

[Dewey]

I knew we were drafting this kid and the whining started - like what, 1-2 weeks ago - when I mentioned his name at 13? Tried to give a hint ... Then the ripping began. I'm humored by some of the analytical breakdowns i get to read - there is no better entertainment.

Anyway ... have a good weekend everyone!!

[Klomp]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/APkrawczynski/status/482607529156157440[/tweet]

[PZiv]

Lavine is a step to Rubio era Wolves.

[Dewey]

LaVine picked his number as an homage to idol Kobe Bryant and because Nikola Pekovic already wears No. 14, his college number.

"I'm not going to fight him over that number," LaVine said. "That dude is huge. He takes up a whole locker."

* When asked about LaVine's basketball IQ and ability to learn and adapt to the NBA's complex offenses, Flip said, "That's up to the coach."

http://www.startribune.com/sports/blogs/264950741.html

If you know Flip, he's saying, "your telling me HIS IQ is low?"

[Jukeness]

I don't think anyone should really be that upset over this pick. Wolves took a risk on someone with a lot of potential, you have to take those risks, this team isnt in a position to play it safe.

[horaceworthy]

Except that Smart plays a position we just filled with the 13th pick (or, alternatively, a position that we've had filled with Rubio for a while now). Smart is obviously the much better prospect (than LaVine), but doubling up on positions with limited assets makes no sense. At least with Gordon we'd be filling a big opening at starting PF.

I suppose Smart (or LaVine) could be flipped to a third team with a PF or SF coming here, but the more complicated a deal is, the less likely it is to work out.

Also, after drafting Smart and Young, I fully expect that Rondo will be traded soon.

Just one last response on this topic before either dropping it in this thread (and probably picking it up in a Love trade thread later in the summer).

Doubling up on positions is a thing many teams do during a rebuild (the route you're the strongest advocate of). Telfair/Rondo, Sullinger/Olynyk, Durant/Green, Favors/Kanter, etc. It gives them a position of strength to deal from if they choose to pool some assets together for a bigger piece without creating another hole on the roster. Even though there are real questions about how Smart and Rubio would fit together, all 3 of the guards are pretty different player, and since only Rubio would be eligible to get paid in the next few years there's time to figure out who fits.

I also don't see a young core of Dieng/Olynyk/Bazz/GR3/Smart/LaVine/Rubio and multiple picks (their own likely landing in the top 10 at least once) in the next couple drafts from the hypothetical Boston trade would leave the Wolves particularly asset poor. It needs more, but I don't think there's a Love trade possible that will fix everything.