Fire SMitch thread (Glen agrees, pg 71)

[Sugarless]

Bring Hornie to Minny.

[LesGrossman]

Bring Hornie to Minny.

really?

[Sugarless]

Well, I'd rather see him than JVG, Messina or Thibs (great coach, just not a good fit here). Phoenix was 8th in pace two years ago, 4th last season, and 3rd this year. Of course the organization has been a total mess since the whole Bledsoe free agency situation, and they were going nowhere this season with so many injuries and a failed summer (they managed to get Devin Booker, though...), but I still think Hornacek was a good coach for them and would bring an offense that's much more modern and that works immensely better with this team.

Of course, if I had a say, my preference has always been a young, good developmental coach who could gel with the guys and get them to play defense and run, the way Stevens and Snyder have done in Boston and Utah (not so much the running part with Snyder, who's got a different kind of roster). But no one on the Timberwolves seems to care about those kind of coaches, they didn't with Flip at the helm and I can't see why they would now, considering the Wolves' and Taylor's history and their current situation.

[C.lupus]

Well, I'd rather see him than JVG, Messina or Thibs (great coach, just not a good fit here). Phoenix was 8th in pace two years ago, 4th last season, and 3rd this year. Of course the organization has been a total mess since the whole Bledsoe free agency situation, and they were going nowhere this season with so many injuries and a failed summer (they managed to get Devin Booker, though...), but I still think Hornacek was a good coach for them and would bring an offense that's much more modern and that works immensely better with this team.

Of course, if I had a say, my preference has always been a young, good developmental coach who could gel with the guys and get them to play defense and run, the way Stevens and Snyder have done in Boston and Utah (not so much the running part with Snyder, who's got a different kind of roster). But no one on the Timberwolves seems to care about those kind of coaches, they didn't with Flip at the helm and I can't see why they would now, considering the Wolves' and Taylor's history and their current situation.

I don't think that's quite fair. Flip had all but hired Joerger (8 years younger than Snyder, btw) away from Memphis before Pera made an 11th hour plea for him to stay.

[Sugarless]

Well, I'd rather see him than JVG, Messina or Thibs (great coach, just not a good fit here). Phoenix was 8th in pace two years ago, 4th last season, and 3rd this year. Of course the organization has been a total mess since the whole Bledsoe free agency situation, and they were going nowhere this season with so many injuries and a failed summer (they managed to get Devin Booker, though...), but I still think Hornacek was a good coach for them and would bring an offense that's much more modern and that works immensely better with this team.

Of course, if I had a say, my preference has always been a young, good developmental coach who could gel with the guys and get them to play defense and run, the way Stevens and Snyder have done in Boston and Utah (not so much the running part with Snyder, who's got a different kind of roster). But no one on the Timberwolves seems to care about those kind of coaches, they didn't with Flip at the helm and I can't see why they would now, considering the Wolves' and Taylor's history and their current situation.

I don't think that's quite fair. Flip had all but hired Joerger (8 years younger than Snyder, btw) away from Memphis before Pera made an 11th hour plea for him to stay.

He's a young coach that Flip coveted, that's true (although being Minnesotan probably played a bigger role than his age in that pursuit), but I don't see how Joerger qualifies as a developmental coach, to be honest. His whole tenure in Memphis he's focused on continuing the safe line they already had with the veterans, he hasn't helped one single youngster in that team and actually he's barely played any of them, which is one of the main problems they're facing now.

[FinnTheHuman]

Well, I'd rather see him than JVG, Messina or Thibs (great coach, just not a good fit here). Phoenix was 8th in pace two years ago, 4th last season, and 3rd this year. Of course the organization has been a total mess since the whole Bledsoe free agency situation, and they were going nowhere this season with so many injuries and a failed summer (they managed to get Devin Booker, though...), but I still think Hornacek was a good coach for them and would bring an offense that's much more modern and that works immensely better with this team.

Of course, if I had a say, my preference has always been a young, good developmental coach who could gel with the guys and get them to play defense and run, the way Stevens and Snyder have done in Boston and Utah (not so much the running part with Snyder, who's got a different kind of roster). But no one on the Timberwolves seems to care about those kind of coaches, they didn't with Flip at the helm and I can't see why they would now, considering the Wolves' and Taylor's history and their current situation.

I don't think that's quite fair. Flip had all but hired Joerger (8 years younger than Snyder, btw) away from Memphis before Pera made an 11th hour plea for him to stay.

He's a young coach that Flip coveted, that's true (although being Minnesotan probably played a bigger role than his age in that pursuit), but I don't see how Joerger qualifies as a developmental coach, to be honest. His whole tenure in Memphis he's focused on continuing the safe line they already had with the veterans, he hasn't helped one single youngster in that team and actually he's barely played any of them, which is one of the main problems they're facing now.

Well, the last sentence is not fair, since he had really no young talented player to develop on the Memphis roster if I'm not forgetting someone. Can't judge what kind of youth development coach he is, but you can claim that he developed the team chemistry.

[m2002brian]

Thibs seems like a good coach for both fixing the D and developing players. The things he did with Rose, Buttler prove he'll both play the younger guys but also develop them.


http://hoopshabit.com/2015/03/09/tom-thibodeau-right-coach-chicago-bulls/7/

[NewWolvesOrder]

Joerger is a coach coming from the D-League, I'm sure he has lots of experience with young players.

[Sugarless]

I don't think that's quite fair. Flip had all but hired Joerger (8 years younger than Snyder, btw) away from Memphis before Pera made an 11th hour plea for him to stay.

He's a young coach that Flip coveted, that's true (although being Minnesotan probably played a bigger role than his age in that pursuit), but I don't see how Joerger qualifies as a developmental coach, to be honest. His whole tenure in Memphis he's focused on continuing the safe line they already had with the veterans, he hasn't helped one single youngster in that team and actually he's barely played any of them, which is one of the main problems they're facing now.

Well, the last sentence is not fair, since he had really no young talented player to develop on the Memphis roster if I'm not forgetting someone. Can't judge what kind of youth development coach he is, but you can claim that he developed the team chemistry.

The chemistry among players was already there with Hollins, and it relied on Marc Gasol and Z-Bo mainly. Those are the guys who've always handled the locker, with Allen and Conley also being important pieces, though not as much as the two bigs.

As for young talent, Memphis has not had a high pick due to their success over the last few years, but they've had guys like Tony Wroten, Jordan Adams, Russ Smith and now Jarell Martin, and Joerger never turned to them once to give them something different, even when Memphis main issues have been their unidimensionality and quite often a lack of fresh legs, along with their poor outside shooting. They boast one of the oldest rotations in the league, if not the most, with 2 guys close to 30 years-old (Conley 28, Green 29), and everybody else 30 or older (Lee is 30, Gasol 31, Allen 34, Randolph 34, Barnes 35, Carter 39). And it's been that way for a few years now. They haven't had a single guy under 24 among their 12 main players since Joerger arrived (and only one who cracked the top-15 in minutes played in a single season). Just think of those numbers.

I have nothing against Joerger, he's a likeable guy and he's young enough than I'm still not writing him off as someone who could not adapt to a different style of play (even though he was supposed to bring a much faster pace to the Grizzlies, and instead of that they've become even slower, going from just around average with Hollins to league bottom with Dave) or help younger players to develop. But he clearly has done none of it so far in his NBA career, quite the contrary.

[C.lupus]

It's tough to judge Joerger on development. He was brought into a win-now situation with a vet team and an owner who is questionable to say the least. I think he was forced to play the hand he was dealt (which isn't a bad hand). He could be a good development coach or a bad one, there just isn't much to go off of so far.

[Sugarless]

Sure, I agree with all of that, the jury is still out on Joerger.

But if it were up to me, my first choice would be to go with someone who's already been highly succesful in a player development role, either on college or preferrably in an NBA locker where he's had to deal with NBA egos and a different brand of basketball.

I've been saying it since Adelman left: there are several great candidates out there (Udoka, Larrañaga -although I'm biased here as I loved the guy as a player in Europe-...), but I would love someone like Kenny Atkinson. He's got a great reputation among the Hawks players (both current and former), he's helped guys develop whether they were still young or veteran-ish (the Demarre Carroll's, Jeff Teague, Dennis Schröder or even Millsap and Horford, who've become much better players under him), and he's worked for a great coach who's learnt in the best place in the NBA (San Antonio), with the most complete system there is in modern basketball.

Unfortunately, you never hear those guys connected to the Timberwolves, not even in the most bizarre rumors. And the sad truth is you don't really expect them to.

[Devilzsidewalk]

Thibs seems like a good coach for both fixing the D and developing players. The things he did with Rose, Buttler prove he'll both play the younger guys but also develop them.


http://hoopshabit.com/2015/03/09/tom-thibodeau-right-coach-chicago-bulls/7/

I listened to his podcast with Bill Simmons. They talked a lot about Golden State, the new way of basketball, and the Boston days.

Here were a few things I gathered about him:

*He says in this era (playing off a point Simmons made) that it's possible to hide 1 non-shooter, but 2 non-shooters is a tall order. In the Rondo days at Boston, they devised a scheme to have Rondo sit baseline on offense, go hard on the offensive glass, cause havoc trying to poke balls away on rebounds, etc. KG liked to operate top of the key on offense, so they'd play him out there on offense and then he'd handle Rondo's role in getting back in transition defense since Rondo was around the rim.

*talked about the importance of defending threes - particularly corner threes - and what they want to take away and what they can live with on defense as far as what kind of shots to give up. Giving up a contested long 2 and the guy hits the shot anyways - you can live with that. Letting somebody step into a catch and shoot shot - that's not acceptable.

*talked about how analytics changed the game as far as the league better understanding the value of a 3 point shot these days

*possibly scarred by their game 7 loss of the Lakers, he mentioned multiple times about the importance of not just contesting the shot, but securing the rebound. Doesn't sound like a small-ball guy at all because he talked about having 2 big guys so you can secure rebounds.

*complemented everybody, didn't take any digs at anybody, didn't mention any names or anything even though Bill was trying to draw him in a little bit. Everybody he's worked with is great, all the coaches, all the players. Kind of humorless, but very professional. The anti Jeff Van Gundy personality-wise.

[m2002brian]

Thibs seems like a good coach for both fixing the D and developing players. The things he did with Rose, Buttler prove he'll both play the younger guys but also develop them.


http://hoopshabit.com/2015/03/09/tom-thibodeau-right-coach-chicago-bulls/7/

I listened to his podcast with Bill Simmons. They talked a lot about Golden State, the new way of basketball, and the Boston days.

Here were a few things I gathered about him:

*He says in this era (playing off a point Simmons made) that it's possible to hide 1 non-shooter, but 2 non-shooters is a tall order. In the Rondo days at Boston, they devised a scheme to have Rondo sit baseline on offense, go hard on the offensive glass, cause havoc trying to poke balls away on rebounds, etc. KG liked to operate top of the key on offense, so they'd play him out there on offense and then he'd handle Rondo's role in getting back in transition defense since Rondo was around the rim.

*talked about the importance of defending threes - particularly corner threes - and what they want to take away and what they can live with on defense as far as what kind of shots to give up. Giving up a contested long 2 and the guy hits the shot anyways - you can live with that. Letting somebody step into a catch and shoot shot - that's not acceptable.

*talked about how analytics changed the game as far as the league better understanding the value of a 3 point shot these days

*possibly scarred by their game 7 loss of the Lakers, he mentioned multiple times about the importance of not just contesting the shot, but securing the rebound. Doesn't sound like a small-ball guy at all because he talked about having 2 big guys so you can secure rebounds.

*complemented everybody, didn't take any digs at anybody, didn't mention any names or anything even though Bill was trying to draw him in a little bit. Everybody he's worked with is great, all the coaches, all the players. Kind of humorless, but very professional. The anti Jeff Van Gundy personality-wise.

That's all very good stuff. He sounds like a true pro.

[Sugarless]

Thibs seems like a good coach for both fixing the D and developing players. The things he did with Rose, Buttler prove he'll both play the younger guys but also develop them.


http://hoopshabit.com/2015/03/09/tom-thibodeau-right-coach-chicago-bulls/7/

I have to disagree regarding Thibodeau as a player developer, and if you ask on the Bulls board you'll find that most people will tell you the same, as he never played rookies much unless injuries made him (which unfortunately for him and the Bulls happened too often since 2012), he's all for veteran players and is not very forgiving with rookie mistakes and the like.

Derrick Rose was already an All-Star when Thibs took the Bulls job, coming off a 21-4-6 season. He did play Jimmy Butler a lot, that's true, but he was forced by a bunch of injuries and Butler is an ultra hard working guy who Luol Deng (a Thibs guy if there ever was one) took under his wing. Hardly your regular youngster, and even then they didn't always see eye to eye when Jimmy was younger (but he did improve a lot out of sheer work, there's no denying that).

Thibodeau is also quite a stubborn coach, he likes to play his guys as much as possible, rarely changes his rotations and is a classical slow-it-down kind of coach. The difference with names like JVG is that Thibs is actually a defensive mastermind, and a truly knowledgeable coach who lives basketball 24/7 and will get the most out of any roster on the defensive end. He's a great no-nonsense coach for an experienced roster, but I have a hard time picturing him on such a young roster with only a few high IQ players. I don't think he's interested in that kind of job, and I don't think it really suits him (and viceversa).

[FinnTheHuman]

Thibs seems like a good coach for both fixing the D and developing players. The things he did with Rose, Buttler prove he'll both play the younger guys but also develop them.


http://hoopshabit.com/2015/03/09/tom-thibodeau-right-coach-chicago-bulls/7/

I listened to his podcast with Bill Simmons. They talked a lot about Golden State, the new way of basketball, and the Boston days.

Here were a few things I gathered about him:

*He says in this era (playing off a point Simmons made) that it's possible to hide 1 non-shooter, but 2 non-shooters is a tall order. In the Rondo days at Boston, they devised a scheme to have Rondo sit baseline on offense, go hard on the offensive glass, cause havoc trying to poke balls away on rebounds, etc. KG liked to operate top of the key on offense, so they'd play him out there on offense and then he'd handle Rondo's role in getting back in transition defense since Rondo was around the rim.

*talked about the importance of defending threes - particularly corner threes - and what they want to take away and what they can live with on defense as far as what kind of shots to give up. Giving up a contested long 2 and the guy hits the shot anyways - you can live with that. Letting somebody step into a catch and shoot shot - that's not acceptable.

*talked about how analytics changed the game as far as the league better understanding the value of a 3 point shot these days

*possibly scarred by their game 7 loss of the Lakers, he mentioned multiple times about the importance of not just contesting the shot, but securing the rebound. Doesn't sound like a small-ball guy at all because he talked about having 2 big guys so you can secure rebounds.

*complemented everybody, didn't take any digs at anybody, didn't mention any names or anything even though Bill was trying to draw him in a little bit. Everybody he's worked with is great, all the coaches, all the players. Kind of humorless, but very professional. The anti Jeff Van Gundy personality-wise.

I'm sold. I like the situation where we could replicate with Rubio what Boston did with Rondo if we land a shooter on the wing for the starting 5, and that Thibs should be probably the best option to make it happen. I like how he values Pop's coaching philosophy highly, just basing your game on your strengths and weaknesses and not trying to be a copycat when you don't have the personnel.

[ace625214]

Joerger was known for making his players better and developing raw guys in his CBA and NBDL days. He would be great on a young team.

Thibs would do wonders with out defense, but I would be scared of the injuries that would happen with Wiggins and Ricky playing 40+ minutes each night.

[C.lupus]

I'd love Thibs as defensive coordinator but I don't like his fit as HC. He'd wear out his welcome fairly quickly.

[C.lupus]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/JerryZgoda/status/694609826287001600[/tweet]


*runs away*

[Devilzsidewalk]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/JerryZgoda/status/694609826287001600[/tweet]


*runs away*

That's predictable. 2 biggest factors I've wondered about is KG and Milt. What's Milt's opinion going to be; he's a complete wildcard.

And for that matter, is Milt the GM, or interim GM? Does he just have the job now?

[C.lupus]

Milt is GM and "Iterim POBO" .