Kevin Martin getting bought out

[Worm Guts]

Or you gained a couple of million dollars of cap space due to him leaving some on the table instead of being stuck with an untradeable expiring deal in a year when expiring deals are of even less value than normal due to the cap increases coming in the next 2 years.

There's no such thing as an I tradeable expiring. At the very least it's potential filler

Which is fine until you don't do a deal and end up buying him out after paying him $6m and wasting a roster spot on him for most of the year, or what if the difference between his buyout amount for next year and his full amount is the difference between us signing somebody amazing and not getting them.

I'm not even sure you can get relief from the cap with a buyout. In most cases you can't. He may have to give up his option for us to get relief.
Using a roster spot is a relatively minor issue, and at worst you can buy him out before the season if you need it.

[guest81]

Nice to see the Wolves are basically running a charity at this point

[shrink]

Hey guys - i heard I was quoted here, so I wanted to pass on a little info:

1. I'm still waiting to hear what the deal is with buying out the player's option. If you are reading the thread on the trade board, Hartford Whalers is giving bad information by saying that the second year of a player's option needs to be bought out - it all depends on the contract. If you're curious about the specific language:

If a contract includes a player option, it must include one of the following two paragraphs:

(A) “If this Contract is terminated by Team prior to Player’s exercise
of the Option described in Exhibit 1 of the Contract, then Player
shall be entitled to benefit from the Base Compensation protection
provisions of this Exhibit 2 to the same extent as if the exercise of
the Option by Player had occurred prior to Team’s termination of
the Contract.”

Or:

(B) “If this Contract is terminated by Team prior to Player’s exercise
of the Option described in Exhibit 1 of the Contract, then Team
shall be relieved of any obligation to pay Player any Base
Compensation with respect to the Option Year.”


So yes, it’s on a case-by-case basis, in each player’s individual contract. If the individual player’s contract contains the A version of the paragraph, and he is waived prior to the option vesting, then he is paid the same (to the same extent) as if the option had been picked up. If an individual contract contains the B version and he is waived before the option vests, then it’s treated as though the option never existed.

Doogie says he's looked at the contract provided, and it doesn't say either way! I guess we have to wait.

[Devilzsidewalk]

My bottom line is that if there's money on the books next year, it's a bad decision. He controlled his destiny with his on-court performance this season and he played himself into an untradeable status. If anything, he was overpaid for this season - getting 2017 money for nothing seems like an unfair proposition to me.

[guest81]

My bottom line is that if there's money on the books next year, it's a bad decision. He controlled his destiny with his on-court performance this season and he played himself into an untradeable status. If anything, he was overpaid for this season - getting 2017 money for nothing seems like an unfair proposition to me.

My guess is that's why this was called an "advanced buyout"

[shrink]

(I hate it when I get unwanted browser reloads, and need to re-type a long post! I'll go for speed this time.)

The main reason I wrote was to talk about the salary floor. As you know, there is no direct penalty for being under the floor - an owner simply must pay the difference to his current players in bonuses. However, no owner is going to want to pay millions of dollars for nothing! This summer, you will see lots of overbidding on free agents, because it will be better for teams to have some option on the bench than no option. I believe 25 teams will have cap space, but what I expect to see is the salary floor drive up the price of non-starter, rotation players as well, with longer deals for more money.

I think I can use algebra to also demonstrate why it makes financial sense for teams (like POR last week), to drive their payroll over the floor, even if they didn't get their in summer free agency.

Next year, I have the Wolves at $57, so that means $35 mil cap space and $25 mil under the floor.

A. If they do nothing, they will pay $57 mil in payroll, plus $25 mil at the end of the season in bonus, for a total of $82. Easy.

B. Suppose they get shut out of free agency this summer, and next year's trade deadline approaches. At this point, they've paid for 2/3's of the season ($38 mil), but they "trade" their cap space at the deadline to reach the floor. Their remaining payroll is 1/3 of $82 ($27.3 mil) for a total of $65.3 mil ... $17 million in savings, PLUS they traded the valuable commodity of cap space for assets!


Anyway, the bottom line on Kevin Martin is unwritten so far. If we are paying for that second year (and yes, this is paying money for guaranteed zero production, plus the cap hit!), then the buy out is premature. With the huge salaries that Free agents are going to get next year, Martin may have opted out, looking for an extra year or two on a new deal. Even if he didn't, a buyout means we have to pay him something, plus we may feel pressured to replace him next year with a different overpaid free agent, on a longer deal! We need to get more details, and some of these wouldn't be known until this summer, so unlike the Andre Miller buyout, buying out Martin right now was a mistake.

[LordBaldric]

The Wolves are the kings of buyouts.

[Krapinsky]

(I hate it when I get unwanted browser reloads, and need to re-type a long post! I'll go for speed this time.)

The main reason I wrote was to talk about the salary floor. As you know, there is no direct penalty for being under the floor - an owner simply must pay the difference to his current players in bonuses. However, no owner is going to want to pay millions of dollars for nothing! This summer, you will see lots of overbidding on free agents, because it will be better for teams to have some option on the bench than no option. I believe 25 teams will have cap space, but what I expect to see is the salary floor drive up the price of non-starter, rotation players as well, with longer deals for more money.

I think I can use algebra to also demonstrate why it makes financial sense for teams (like POR last week), to drive their payroll over the floor, even if they didn't get their in summer free agency.

Next year, I have the Wolves at $57, so that means $35 mil cap space and $25 mil under the floor.

A. If they do nothing, they will pay $57 mil in payroll, plus $25 mil at the end of the season in bonus, for a total of $82. Easy.

B. Suppose they get shut out of free agency this summer, and next year's trade deadline approaches. At this point, they've paid for 2/3's of the season ($38 mil), but they "trade" their cap space at the deadline to reach the floor. Their remaining payroll is 1/3 of $82 ($27.3 mil) for a total of $65.3 mil ... $17 million in savings, PLUS they traded the valuable commodity of cap space for assets!


Anyway, the bottom line on Kevin Martin is unwritten so far. If we are paying for that second year (and yes, this is paying money for guaranteed zero production, plus the cap hit!), then the buy out is premature. With the huge salaries that Free agents are going to get next year, Martin may have opted out, looking for an extra year or two on a new deal. Even if he didn't, a buyout means we have to pay him something, plus we may feel pressured to replace him next year with a different overpaid free agent, on a longer deal! We need to get more details, and some of these wouldn't be known until this summer, so unlike the Andre Miller buyout, buying out Martin right now was a mistake.

Shrink, you've been sorely missed on this forum. Please come back and post more often.

[Devilzsidewalk]

(I hate it when I get unwanted browser reloads, and need to re-type a long post! I'll go for speed this time.)

The main reason I wrote was to talk about the salary floor. As you know, there is no direct penalty for being under the floor - an owner simply must pay the difference to his current players in bonuses. However, no owner is going to want to pay millions of dollars for nothing! This summer, you will see lots of overbidding on free agents, because it will be better for teams to have some option on the bench than no option. I believe 25 teams will have cap space, but what I expect to see is the salary floor drive up the price of non-starter, rotation players as well, with longer deals for more money.

I think I can use algebra to also demonstrate why it makes financial sense for teams (like POR last week), to drive their payroll over the floor, even if they didn't get their in summer free agency.

Next year, I have the Wolves at $57, so that means $35 mil cap space and $25 mil under the floor.

A. If they do nothing, they will pay $57 mil in payroll, plus $25 mil at the end of the season in bonus, for a total of $82. Easy.

B. Suppose they get shut out of free agency this summer, and next year's trade deadline approaches. At this point, they've paid for 2/3's of the season ($38 mil), but they "trade" their cap space at the deadline to reach the floor. Their remaining payroll is 1/3 of $82 ($27.3 mil) for a total of $65.3 mil ... $17 million in savings, PLUS they traded the valuable commodity of cap space for assets!


Anyway, the bottom line on Kevin Martin is unwritten so far. If we are paying for that second year (and yes, this is paying money for guaranteed zero production, plus the cap hit!), then the buy out is premature. With the huge salaries that Free agents are going to get next year, Martin may have opted out, looking for an extra year or two on a new deal. Even if he didn't, a buyout means we have to pay him something, plus we may feel pressured to replace him next year with a different overpaid free agent, on a longer deal! We need to get more details, and some of these wouldn't be known until this summer, so unlike the Andre Miller buyout, buying out Martin right now was a mistake.

Shrink, you've been sorely missed on this forum. Please come back and post more often.

Krapinsky, you've been sorely missed on this forum. Please come back and post more often.

[cpfsf]

(I hate it when I get unwanted browser reloads, and need to re-type a long post! I'll go for speed this time.)

The main reason I wrote was to talk about the salary floor. As you know, there is no direct penalty for being under the floor - an owner simply must pay the difference to his current players in bonuses. However, no owner is going to want to pay millions of dollars for nothing! This summer, you will see lots of overbidding on free agents, because it will be better for teams to have some option on the bench than no option. I believe 25 teams will have cap space, but what I expect to see is the salary floor drive up the price of non-starter, rotation players as well, with longer deals for more money.

I think I can use algebra to also demonstrate why it makes financial sense for teams (like POR last week), to drive their payroll over the floor, even if they didn't get their in summer free agency.

Next year, I have the Wolves at $57, so that means $35 mil cap space and $25 mil under the floor.

A. If they do nothing, they will pay $57 mil in payroll, plus $25 mil at the end of the season in bonus, for a total of $82. Easy.

B. Suppose they get shut out of free agency this summer, and next year's trade deadline approaches. At this point, they've paid for 2/3's of the season ($38 mil), but they "trade" their cap space at the deadline to reach the floor. Their remaining payroll is 1/3 of $82 ($27.3 mil) for a total of $65.3 mil ... $17 million in savings, PLUS they traded the valuable commodity of cap space for assets!


Anyway, the bottom line on Kevin Martin is unwritten so far. If we are paying for that second year (and yes, this is paying money for guaranteed zero production, plus the cap hit!), then the buy out is premature. With the huge salaries that Free agents are going to get next year, Martin may have opted out, looking for an extra year or two on a new deal. Even if he didn't, a buyout means we have to pay him something, plus we may feel pressured to replace him next year with a different overpaid free agent, on a longer deal! We need to get more details, and some of these wouldn't be known until this summer, so unlike the Andre Miller buyout, buying out Martin right now was a mistake.

Shrink, you've been sorely missed on this forum. Please come back and post more often.

Krapinsky, you've been sorely missed on this forum. Please come back and post more often.

Devilz, you've been sorely missed by your family. Please come back and quit drinking.

Also what devilz and krapinsky said

[Crazy-Canuck]

Im guessing the gms that might have had interest in guys like martin, miller or payne knew they didnt have to give anything up because milt didnt have the authority or the market awareness to get any deals done.

[GopherIt!]

We need Rev, J2J & Esohny to stop by & give us their thoughts on a Kevin Martin buyout.

[Krapinsky]

(I hate it when I get unwanted browser reloads, and need to re-type a long post! I'll go for speed this time.)

The main reason I wrote was to talk about the salary floor. As you know, there is no direct penalty for being under the floor - an owner simply must pay the difference to his current players in bonuses. However, no owner is going to want to pay millions of dollars for nothing! This summer, you will see lots of overbidding on free agents, because it will be better for teams to have some option on the bench than no option. I believe 25 teams will have cap space, but what I expect to see is the salary floor drive up the price of non-starter, rotation players as well, with longer deals for more money.

I think I can use algebra to also demonstrate why it makes financial sense for teams (like POR last week), to drive their payroll over the floor, even if they didn't get their in summer free agency.

Next year, I have the Wolves at $57, so that means $35 mil cap space and $25 mil under the floor.

A. If they do nothing, they will pay $57 mil in payroll, plus $25 mil at the end of the season in bonus, for a total of $82. Easy.

B. Suppose they get shut out of free agency this summer, and next year's trade deadline approaches. At this point, they've paid for 2/3's of the season ($38 mil), but they "trade" their cap space at the deadline to reach the floor. Their remaining payroll is 1/3 of $82 ($27.3 mil) for a total of $65.3 mil ... $17 million in savings, PLUS they traded the valuable commodity of cap space for assets!


Anyway, the bottom line on Kevin Martin is unwritten so far. If we are paying for that second year (and yes, this is paying money for guaranteed zero production, plus the cap hit!), then the buy out is premature. With the huge salaries that Free agents are going to get next year, Martin may have opted out, looking for an extra year or two on a new deal. Even if he didn't, a buyout means we have to pay him something, plus we may feel pressured to replace him next year with a different overpaid free agent, on a longer deal! We need to get more details, and some of these wouldn't be known until this summer, so unlike the Andre Miller buyout, buying out Martin right now was a mistake.

Shrink, you've been sorely missed on this forum. Please come back and post more often.

Krapinsky, you've been sorely missed on this forum. Please come back and post more often.

The Dr. has been working like a dog and the Wolves have been disappointing/lousy, but can't help but get in on some draft talk now that we're all but guaranteed top 5.

[Krapinsky]

We need Rev, J2J & Esohny to stop by & give us their thoughts on a Kevin Martin buyout.

Is HoWo still around?

[Klomp]

We need Rev, J2J & Esohny to stop by & give us their thoughts on a Kevin Martin buyout.

Is HoWo still around?

Nope, most of the vets got scared off like you. Some of us are still here to make sure this board doesn't completely fall off a cliff. Barely hanging on...

[PharmD]

Im guessing the gms that might have had interest in guys like martin, miller or payne knew they didnt have to give anything up because milt didnt have the authority or the market awareness to get any deals done.

lol yeah i'm sure Glen was like "Don't trade Miller and Martin for anything, i want to continue to pay them and let them go for nothing!"

[Worm Guts]

So is this official? I haven't heard anything about Martin getting waived.

[The J Rocka]

So is this official? I haven't heard anything about Martin getting waived.

Not yet.

My guess is that it'll be official tomorrow or Monday. I think Tuesday is the deadline but not 100% certain.

[C.lupus]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine/status/703671048772804608[/tweet]

[urinesane]

Whatever contract he gets after effects what the Wolves end up paying right?