Game 71: Minnesota Timberwolves (28-42) @ Los Angeles Lakers (20-51) - 10:30 PM ET

[Mattya]

Towns must have checked out at halftime.

[Calinks]

That wasn't tanking, we just turned in another trash performance. Without defense we can lose any game. Props to Corey Brewer for putting in work in that 4th. Lakers also showed up big for Shaq night. We have some offensive issues for sure, its not as important as our defense but we got problems there. Also like I said before, our bench needs a lot of help. If Bazz has an off night, we are done.

All in all we have to get back to playing good defense to be a solid team, from there we need to work on our depth and offensive issues.

We didn't lose because of defense for Petes sake! I'm tired of hearing that. When a guy keeps hitting 26 ft 3 pntrs with a hand in his face, and get every loose ball, it isn't our defense. We scored 10 points since 3:48 of the 4th qtr!! That's what cost us the game.

I disagree but the offensive lapse was a huge part of it too. It was a combination of factors in my mind but great consistent defense and the Lakers likely never get that hot. And not just defense in the way of getting a hand in the opponents face but position, boxing out, rebounding, not letting guys get to their spots, etc.

[PharmD]

Big tank loss. I say we rest Ricky/Wigg/Towns tomorrow.

Lakers were just accidentally banking in off-balance trash all night. Defense was good but Clarkson and Brewer were just hitting miracle shot-clock beating threes over and over. Probably none of those shots had a 10% shot to go in.

[Mattya]

Defense was terrible on Clarkson mostly. He hit some tough off balance stuff, but the open shot where Rubio wasn't paying attention, and the Town foul and made shot was just pathetic.

[Klomp]

Strange, a team is struggling on offense only weeks after losing a 20 ppg score. Weird...

Strange, Brandon Rush isn't as good as Zach LaVine. Weird....

[southern wolf]

Strange, a team is struggling on offense only weeks after losing a 20 ppg score. Weird...

Strange, Brandon Rush isn't as good as Zach LaVine. Weird....

Strange, we played our best basketball of the season with Lavine out. Weird.

No excuses.

[Nick K]

That wasn't tanking, we just turned in another trash performance. Without defense we can lose any game. Props to Corey Brewer for putting in work in that 4th. Lakers also showed up big for Shaq night. We have some offensive issues for sure, its not as important as our defense but we got problems there. Also like I said before, our bench needs a lot of help. If Bazz has an off night, we are done.

All in all we have to get back to playing good defense to be a solid team, from there we need to work on our depth and offensive issues.

We didn't lose because of defense for Petes sake! I'm tired of hearing that. When a guy keeps hitting 26 ft 3 pntrs with a hand in his face, and get every loose ball, it isn't our defense. We scored 10 points since 3:48 of the 4th qtr!! That's what cost us the game.

I disagree but the offensive lapse was a huge part of it too. It was a combination of factors in my mind but great consistent defense and the Lakers likely never get that hot. And not just defense in the way of getting a hand in the opponents face but position, boxing out, rebounding, not letting guys get to their spots, etc.

This is the way it's been all year long Calinks. We should be improving as the season goes on. I no longer will accept the we're young excuse. All year long we've shut down on the offensive end when it counts. We play tight and not to lose. I blame the coach.

[Crazy-Canuck]

Our offense is a problem in tight games.

It's really hard to play through a big man late in the game.
Ricky does kind of hurt us late in the game because he can't bail us out when the offense stalls. When opposing teams stuff the Kat/Ricky PNR, we can't get a shot off because Ricky can't get that separation.
Wiggins is a mixed bag sometimes. He's the best we have, but sometimes he settles for stupid jumpers or misses fts.

We don't need more points out of our starters, but we need points off the bench. Brewer, Ennis, etc.. they guys won it for the Lakers while our bench was too busy putting their fingers up their arses.

Thibs was forced to bring wiggs early in the 4th because bazz, rush, and casspi were beyond useless.

We have serious depth issues and that's on thibs the GM.

[Merc_Porto]

Looks like the tank is ON

[FinnTheHuman]

Strange, a team is struggling on offense only weeks after losing a 20 ppg score. Weird...

Strange, Brandon Rush isn't as good as Zach LaVine. Weird....

But isn't the Lavine injury a blessing in disguise?

[Foye]

Looks like the tank is ON

Good.

[TheProdigy]

Strange, a team is struggling on offense only weeks after losing a 20 ppg score. Weird...

Strange, Brandon Rush isn't as good as Zach LaVine. Weird....

Strange, we played our best basketball of the season with Lavine out. Weird.

No excuses.

In the 12 games prior to the game LaVine got hurt we were 8-4 (.667).

In the 21 games since he got hurt, we are 9-12 (.429).

[Merc_Porto]

Strange, a team is struggling on offense only weeks after losing a 20 ppg score. Weird...

Strange, Brandon Rush isn't as good as Zach LaVine. Weird....

Strange, we played our best basketball of the season with Lavine out. Weird.

No excuses.

In the 12 games prior to the game LaVine got hurt we were 8-4 (.667).

In the 21 games since he got hurt, we are 9-12 (.429).

Again and again.

We got the easiest schedule of the season in that stretch and Lavine was one of the worst players during that strech.

It's not about the record. It's a fact the best (maybe) 10 games of the season was without Lavine.

Of course Lavine is missed, but not in the starting lineup. Even for some people that refuse to see that in the past, now it's obvious.

[FinnTheHuman]

Strange, we played our best basketball of the season with Lavine out. Weird.

No excuses.

In the 12 games prior to the game LaVine got hurt we were 8-4 (.667).

In the 21 games since he got hurt, we are 9-12 (.429).

Again and again.

We got the easiest schedule of the season in that stretch and Lavine was one of the worst players during that strech.

It's not about the record. It's a fact the best (maybe) 10 games of the season was without Lavine.

Of course Lavine is missed, but not in the starting lineup. Even for some people that refuse to see that in the past, now it's obvious.

How about this: Lavine gets injured -> we play stellar defense -> Lavine watches from the sidelines and realizes how better the Wolves can be on D if he steps up, what mistakes he was making that his replacements don't, and how much he must work on it -> Lavine improves on defense -> Lavine doesn't hurt our defense as a starter -> we proceed to build around Wiggins, Towns, Lavine and Rubio?

Now is that something you might be interested in?

[TheProdigy]

Strange, we played our best basketball of the season with Lavine out. Weird.

No excuses.

In the 12 games prior to the game LaVine got hurt we were 8-4 (.667).

In the 21 games since he got hurt, we are 9-12 (.429).

Again and again.

We got the easiest schedule of the season in that stretch and Lavine was one of the worst players during that strech.

It's not about the record. It's a fact the best (maybe) 10 games of the season was without Lavine.

Of course Lavine is missed, but not in the starting lineup. Even for some people that refuse to see that in the past, now it's obvious.

Your hate for LaVine is starting to affect your judgment. You might even be making things up as you go.

Let's take a closer look at the 12 games prior to LaVine's injury.

Here are the teams and their winning %s:
Mavs 0.437
Rockets 0.694
Thunder 0.577
Mavs 0.437
Spurs 0.775
Clippers 0.589
Nuggets 0.486
Suns 0.301
Pacers 0.500
Nets 0.208
Magic 0.370
Cavs 0.662

That is an average winning percentage of 0.503%.

Keep on digging that hole of yours...

[TheProdigy]

In the 12 games prior to the game LaVine got hurt we were 8-4 (.667).

In the 21 games since he got hurt, we are 9-12 (.429).

Again and again.

We got the easiest schedule of the season in that stretch and Lavine was one of the worst players during that strech.

It's not about the record. It's a fact the best (maybe) 10 games of the season was without Lavine.

Of course Lavine is missed, but not in the starting lineup. Even for some people that refuse to see that in the past, now it's obvious.

How about this: Lavine gets injured -> we play stellar defense -> Lavine watches from the sidelines and realizes how better the Wolves can be on D if he steps up, what mistakes he was making that his replacements don't, and how much he must work on it -> Lavine improves on defense -> Lavine doesn't hurt our defense as a starter -> we proceed to build around Wiggins, Towns, Lavine and Rubio?

Now is that something you might be interested in?

Exactly. Always looking at things from a binary perspective. "But we're better on defense without LaVine, therefore we are better!". While completely ignoring the fact that we've taken 1 step forward defensively, and 2 steps backwards offensively.

[Merc_Porto]

In the 12 games prior to the game LaVine got hurt we were 8-4 (.667).

In the 21 games since he got hurt, we are 9-12 (.429).

Again and again.

We got the easiest schedule of the season in that stretch and Lavine was one of the worst players during that strech.

It's not about the record. It's a fact the best (maybe) 10 games of the season was without Lavine.

Of course Lavine is missed, but not in the starting lineup. Even for some people that refuse to see that in the past, now it's obvious.

How about this: Lavine gets injured -> we play stellar defense -> Lavine watches from the sidelines and realizes how better the Wolves can be on D if he steps up, what mistakes he was making that his replacements don't, and how much he must work on it -> Lavine improves on defense -> Lavine doesn't hurt our defense as a starter -> we proceed to build around Wiggins, Towns, Lavine and Rubio?

Now is that something you might be interested in?

The Lavine - Wiggins problem is not about defense only. And there is no memory of a player so bad on defense to improve to a decent level. Especially when we are talking about 2 awful defender's in Lavine and Wiggins. They both need someone next to them to make up for they defensive mistakes, otherwise they are going putting up "empty stats".

The other part of the problem is Lavine - Rubio, and there is a reason for Rubio be playing like this lately.
Like it or not, Lavine is another ball-handler out there, another playmaker (a bad one IMO) that takes the ball of Rubio hands a lot.

[Merc_Porto]

Your hate for LaVine is starting to affect your judgment. You might even be making things up as you go.

Let's take a closer look at the 12 games prior to LaVine's injury.

Here are the teams and their winning %s:
Mavs 0.437
Rockets 0.694
Thunder 0.577
Mavs 0.437
Spurs 0.775
Clippers 0.589
Nuggets 0.486
Suns 0.301
Pacers 0.500
Nets 0.208
Magic 0.370
Cavs 0.662

That is an average winning percentage of 0.503%.

Keep on digging that hole of yours...

OK let's put some context then.

Lavine performances in those games.

VS Mavs - 5 PTS, 2/7 (W)
VS Rockets - Doesn't play (W)
VS Thunder - Doesn't play (W)
@ Mavs - 11 PTS 3/8 (L)
@Spurs - 18 PTS 8/14 (L)
@ Clippers - 9 PTS 3/13 (W)
VS Nuggets - 4 PTS 2/8 (W)
@ Suns - 11 PTS 5/9 (W)
VS Pacers - 23 PTS 7/17 (L)
VS Nets - 20 PTS 6/11 (W)
VS Magic - 11 PTS 3/9 (W)
@ Cavs - 8 PTS 4/18 (L)

We played the Clippers without Paul and Griffin.

I'm not even talk about Lavine defense in some of those games.

[FinnTheHuman]

Again and again.

We got the easiest schedule of the season in that stretch and Lavine was one of the worst players during that strech.

It's not about the record. It's a fact the best (maybe) 10 games of the season was without Lavine.

Of course Lavine is missed, but not in the starting lineup. Even for some people that refuse to see that in the past, now it's obvious.

How about this: Lavine gets injured -> we play stellar defense -> Lavine watches from the sidelines and realizes how better the Wolves can be on D if he steps up, what mistakes he was making that his replacements don't, and how much he must work on it -> Lavine improves on defense -> Lavine doesn't hurt our defense as a starter -> we proceed to build around Wiggins, Towns, Lavine and Rubio?

Now is that something you might be interested in?

The Lavine - Wiggins problem is not about defense only. And there is no memory of a player so bad on defense to improve to a decent level. Especially when we are talking about 2 awful defender's in Lavine and Wiggins. They both need someone next to them to make up for they defensive mistakes, otherwise they are going putting up "empty stats".

The other part of the problem is Lavine - Rubio, and there is a reason for Rubio be playing like this lately.
Like it or not, Lavine is another ball-handler out there, another playmaker (a bad one IMO) that takes the ball of Rubio hands a lot.

The way Rubio is playing surely has something to do with Lavine being injured, but we are a worse offense since Lavine got injured, so your point about our offense without Lavine doesn't stand even tho Rubio is finding his offensive groove. You are just trying to ascribe more flaws to Lavine than he actually has, because you don't like his defense.

The truth is, if he comes back to the level he was at on the offensive end, and if he improves his D by a decent margin, and Wiggins remains stagnant in every existing metric like he has for 3 seasons now, Lavine will be considered a higher priority than Wiggins by Thibs.

[TheProdigy]

Your hate for LaVine is starting to affect your judgment. You might even be making things up as you go.

Let's take a closer look at the 12 games prior to LaVine's injury.

Here are the teams and their winning %s:
Mavs 0.437
Rockets 0.694
Thunder 0.577
Mavs 0.437
Spurs 0.775
Clippers 0.589
Nuggets 0.486
Suns 0.301
Pacers 0.500
Nets 0.208
Magic 0.370
Cavs 0.662

That is an average winning percentage of 0.503%.

Keep on digging that hole of yours...

OK let's put some context then.

Lavine performances in those games.

VS Mavs - 5 PTS, 2/7 (W)
VS Rockets - Doesn't play (W)
VS Thunder - Doesn't play (W)
@ Mavs - 11 PTS 3/8 (L)
@Spurs - 18 PTS 8/14 (L)
@ Clippers - 9 PTS 3/13 (W)
VS Nuggets - 4 PTS 2/8 (W)
@ Suns - 11 PTS 5/9 (W)
VS Pacers - 23 PTS 7/17 (L)
VS Nets - 20 PTS 6/11 (W)
VS Magic - 11 PTS 3/9 (W)
@ Cavs - 8 PTS 4/18 (L)

We played the Clippers without Paul and Griffin.

I'm not even talk about Lavine defense in some of those games.

He was playing through injuries at the time. But the point is, he was still contributing to a team that was winning.

A good portion of posters on this board (yourself included) used a string of good games after LaVine got hurt as evidence that we are a better team without him. The point I have been trying to make is that our run actually started BEFORE LaVine got hurt. So to blame all our struggles on LaVine starting is wrong. I think there are two reasons for the turnaround:
1) Thibs increasing Rubio and Towns usage, while reducing Wiggins iso possessions.
2) Improved defensive play due to the younger guys developing a better understanding of Thibs defensive concepts.