Is Jefferson Untouchable??

[InsideInfo]

To be honest, I wouldnt trade Jefferson for the #1 overall pick.

BTW, love the Bulls fan here...with a join date of May 25th 2008.

Bandwagoner must be gettin full early

Why are there so many dicks in this forum?

I swear everytime i post a thread there is some Ahole who has to post some like this.

Who care when i joined realgm?

FYI i been a bulls fan since i was a child. I was going to bulls games when Ron Mercer was our star player. If that wasnt enough i have worked in the NBA for the past 5 seasons. I have been to more NBA games and met more NBA players then all of these losers with 150 thousand posts on this site.

All i was tryin to do was get an idea of what wolves fans thought of Jefferson....rather then that i get a bunch of jerks with smart*ss remarks for me......yall are just upset that the bulls got the 1st pick

[D1SGRUNTL3D]

lol

[Vindicater]

There are afew people I would trade Jefferson+change for

They are

Lebron
Dwight
Paul


THere is no one (other then those three) tat I would trade him straight up for RIGHT NOW.

[delux55]

welcome to the boards. If you have watched all these games and know so much about the league then you should have known the answer before you even posted. the fact you have no posts or just joined doesnt show that you are uninformed or anything, your comments do though

[invno1]

LBJ only.

[Worm Guts]

The reason he is untouchable is the same reason you'd want him:
He is a 22 year old big man with NBA-proven phenomenonal skills on the low block, one of the rarest commodities in the NBA. It's also the cornerstone our management is building around, has always built around, and why they (correctly) thought the Boston deal was the best deal on the table for KG.

No collection of your assets will replace that, including beasley. Outside of Lebron or Dwight Howard there is no single guy or collection of guys (including injury plagued bynum and oden) I'd trade him for. Amare, if he played defense, yes (so sad a guy with that kind of size and athleticism can't even crack 10 rebounds per game).
And we don't need no stinking cap relief. We have exactly one bad contract that only runs for 3 more years and 21 million. We can offer a max contract next offseason to a free agent, (maybe even one of yours).

Deng's about the only other guy on the roster who I would be interested in (including midget gordon, smokey noah and ty-bust thomas) who could upgrade what we already have, and brewer could eventually outplay him.
And we're about to likely pair him with a stud wingman in mayo.

I just would rather build around Rose than Jefferson. Rose has potential to be elite on both sides of the ball where Jefferson is a liability defensively. It's a big risk because Jefferson has already proven that he can play at high level in the NBA where Rose hasn't.

[Worm Guts]

-= original quote snipped =-



I think his point is that even if one considers Rose/Lopez to be inferior to .

Except I don't think that. Rose, Lopez gives you two way players at the 2 hardest positions to fill. Or you could trade back from #3 to 6 or 7, get something and draft whoever is left, Love or Lopez.

[deeney0]

Lopez might be taller than Al, but I'd don't think he's going to be any better defensively in the post against other seven footers. By that definition, Al is as much as C as Lopez. And OJ thinks he's a PG. I guess we'll see.

[Worm Guts]

Lopez might be taller than Al, but I'd don't think he's going to be any better defensively in the post against other seven footers. By that definition, Al is as much as C as Lopez. And OJ thinks he's a PG. I guess we'll see.

I think Lopez will be a better defender than Al, probably significantly so. I don't think Mayo will be elite or a PG. I could be completely wrong on every one those points, but it's what I think right now.

[MN Die Hard]

Its a fair question InsideInfo, although as others have pointed out, if the #1 was off limits trade talks wouldnt even get started.

He's as close to untradeable as you can get....the only guys MN would accept in return are even more untradeable than Al, so yeah, he's pretty much untouchable. But IMO its for off-court stuff as much as his talent on-court....

1. He was the centerpiece of the KG trade and the guy McHale wanted all along. Moving him this soon after the KG trade would be silly.

2. He has humbly and enthusiastically embraced his role as the best player on a small-market rebuilding team. This helped somewhat numb the sting of losing KG, as KG embraced this very attitude for 12 years in MN.

3. He willingly signed a contract extension before he had to, knowing he could have gotten more after the season. AND he took less even at that time than he could have gotten, stating he hasnt yet earned a max contract...when's the last time you heard a professional athlete say something like that?

#2 and #3 play particularly well for MN fans. So even if Chicago could offer better basketball value, I think MN would pass.

[TrentTuckerForever]

Why are there so many dicks in this forum?

I swear everytime i post a thread there is some Ahole who has to post some like this.

Who care when i joined realgm?

FYI i been a bulls fan since i was a child. I was going to bulls games when Ron Mercer was our star player. If that wasnt enough i have worked in the NBA for the past 5 seasons. I have been to more NBA games and met more NBA players then all of these losers with 150 thousand posts on this site.

All i was tryin to do was get an idea of what wolves fans thought of Jefferson....rather then that i get a bunch of jerks with smart*ss remarks for me......yall are just upset that the bulls got the 1st pick

Settle down, dude. It's a good board overall, you just have to learn to take a jibe or two. Remember, when someone makes a dick post everyone sees it, not just you.

Living here as a Wolves fan, I've had a chance to watch this Bulls roster more than most Wolves' fans. I can uneqivocally state that there is no combination of draft picks and/or players on the Bulls roster that the Wolves would want for Jefferson. It just wouldn't work for either team.

[InsideInfo]

[quote="delux55"]welcome to the boards. If you have watched all these games and know so much about the league then you should have known the answer before you even posted. the fact you have no posts or just joined doesnt show that you are uninformed or anything, your comments do though[/quo

what comments? i asked one question? I dont believe that i is said anything about the bulls "Sh*ting gold" as one person put it.

[TrentTuckerForever]

So even if Chicago could offer better basketball value, I think MN would pass.

They can't. Let's just say hypothetically that the #1 and the whole Bulls roster was on the table. What do you want if you're McHale? #1 (Rose) and Noah? Rose, Noah and Thomas? To get equal value the Wolves would have to take salary back to make the deal work (probably meaning Larry Hughes in MN.)

The Bulls are a good young team, but they couldn't get Jefferson without gutting their young core... this whole idea reminds me of the Elton Brand trade to the Clippers (to pair Chandler and Curry.) How did that work out for the Bulls?

[mandurugo]

I think some of you guys are giving too much value to Jefferson. He is a great low post scorer and offensive rebounder. That doesn't make him an awesome offensive player - he hasn't learned how to make players around him better yet, hopefully he will. His defense is still sub-par in my mind. He's really good and might become great. But at this point he's not an all-star. Of course it would be a big gamble to trade someone as good as him for Beasley - but it is a gamble worth considering. This is just the Ebi/Josh Howard decision played with higher stakes (or if you prefer, the Lopez/Mayo gamble). I certainly can see the point of people who wouldn't make this trade, but it is not unreasonable either.

[Devilzsidewalk]

I'd never trade a high end low post scorer/rebounder like Jefferson for any SF save Lebron.

Beasley is basically the same thing; scorer/rebounder w/ uninspiring defense, so might as well take the guy without even a hint of personality conflicts and plays a premium position and gets his points in an ideal manner.

[mandurugo]

I definitely see what you're saying, but I don't think that Beasley is limited to the SF position - I think he is a PF who could play SF. He doesn't have Jefferson's low post moves (though how many players do?), but he is extremely effective scoring in the low post. I also agree he is not a great defender, which is a concern. However, he has the advantage of being much more athletic than Jefferson. As Amare shows, that doesn't mean he will become a better defender - but it does make him potentially much better. Jefferson's biggest weakness is that he is not especially big, strong, or fast for his position. He's not going to run the break, he's not going to race back to defend the basket, etc. Beasley will be able to do some things that Jefferson simply can't. At the same time he hasn't proven anything on an NBA court, it would definitely be a gamble to trade for him... but I'd be willing to do it.

[Devilzsidewalk]

I see Beasley as a face up from mid range guy, like his BFF Carmelo, on offense. I don't see him doing his damage from the low post. From the low post he can't use his 2 greatest assets - his threat to can a J and his first step.

[C.lupus]

I think some of you guys are giving too much value to Jefferson. He is a great low post scorer and offensive rebounder. That doesn't make him an awesome offensive player - he hasn't learned how to make players around him better yet, hopefully he will. His defense is still sub-par in my mind. He's really good and might become great. But at this point he's not an all-star. Of course it would be a big gamble to trade someone as good as him for Beasley - but it is a gamble worth considering. This is just the Ebi/Josh Howard decision played with higher stakes (or if you prefer, the Lopez/Mayo gamble). I certainly can see the point of people who wouldn't make this trade, but it is not unreasonable either.

OK, but the original offer was anybody EXCEPT the #1 pick. So I think that is unreasonable.

[Devilzsidewalk]

it is unreasonable, but just about everybody that's new to RealGM has a skewed perspective of trade values.

I'm sure I put up some crazy trade offers back in the day.

Now ALL my trades are pretty much the greatest trades possible.

[shrink]

What do you want if you're McHale? #1 (Rose) and Noah? Rose, Noah and Thomas? To get equal value the Wolves would have to take salary back to make the deal work (probably meaning Larry Hughes in MN.)

That's kind of huge offer that I was thinking about too, that CHI would never do. I'd use Nocionio though. So when I started dreaming (if losing Big Al could be considered a "dream"

MIN: Derrick Rose ($4), Noah ($2), Nocioni ($8)
CHI: Al Jefferson ($11), McCants ($3)

Then MIN offers MIA the #1 for the #2 "plus stuff"

MIA : Derrick Rose ($4) + Nocioni ($8) + Jaric ($6) + Buckner ($4)
MIN: Beasley ($3) + Marion ($18)

Then MIN sends Marion to CHI too, to help their Al Jefferson/Win now cause:

MIN: Deng ($9 S&T), Gooden ($6), Tyrus ($4)
CHI: Marion ($18) + Craig Smith ($3)

.. I didn't figure out whether this all works with S&T's, and this all has to be done after picks are made, but if you combine all these deals into one, eventually, CHI ends up

Hinrich/Duhon
Hughes/Gordon/McCants
Marion/Sefalosha
Jefferson/Craig Smith
Free Agents Center/Gray/Simmons

MIA:
Derrick Rose/Jaric
Wade/Cook
Nocioni
Haslem/Johnson
Blount

and MIN:

Foye/Telfair
Mayo/Brewer
Deng/Gomes
Beasley/Tyrus
Noah

I don't know if I could give up Al, but that would be a fun young team.